[Spoilers] True Detective VIII - Without Ginger There is No You

[Castel]

I think the title True Detective wasn't really a reference to either of the guys, but rather a homage to the gritty Detective magazines of the 40s and 50s. Covers

Wow, the ancients were really obsessed with bondage and low-cut attire :lol:

[DivisionByZero]

That was an amazing finish to the show. I think it all worked really well for me. I could probably come up with some nits to pick down the road, but I'm really just so satisfied right now I have absolutely no reason to. Everything Erol-related was just about the creepiest stuff I've ever seen. The whole atmosphere of his house and all of the surrounding area was perfect in every way. Rust's delving into Carcosa was right up there with any other super tense moment I can think of and I really thought Rust and Marty were both going to be ended right there. That shot of the top of Erol's head getting blown off at the last minute? I think I whooped and pumped my fist in the air. Holy crap.

And the resolution was excellent. I liked it going back over all the significant places and seeing where everything went down. We've talked about how the location was almost as much of a character as the human characters, and that flyby was sort of its resolution. Seemed fair to me. Marty tearing up at his family coming to visit him, Rust's final monologue and Marty trying to cheer him up, hell, even the final credits, with the stars coming out really got to me. For me, at least, True Detective is definitely going down as one of the best, most well-done, pieces of entertainment I've ever consumed.

I admit, I was a little worried for a moment that the sheriff or Ginger was going to drive by the hospital at the end and shoot them in revenge, though...

[Kat]

I admit, I was a little worried for a moment that the sheriff or Ginger was going to drive by the hospital at the end and shoot them in revenge, though...

I just finished watching and my biggest fear was that as soon as Rust got out of his wheelchair, he wanted to go drive his truck into a suicide-by-traffic. Glad that didn't happen.

[Warg Arry]

What the Flick Review of TD finale. With special guest Brad Carter. (Charlie Lange)

If only it was Ginger.

[PetyrPunkinhead]

I liked how they showed and didn't tell us his back story. Before the detectives tried to spell it out to Hart in the hospital, we pretty much knew he and that woman were related when Errol Childress "made flowers" to her on his lap. I'm pretty sure he was asking her to describe the time their grandfather raped her as he made those daisies under her filthy dress.

As to the mythology of the Yellow King, I would've liked a bit more explicit clarification though in its relation to the Tuttle and Childress families as well as its ties and origins with Carcosa. I'm also still wondering why and how Errol Childress' murders were covered up for so long by powerful men like the Tuttles. Even when his murders were out on public display like with Dora Lang in 1995 and the other girl in Lake Charles in 2012? Here are my theories.

"Carcosa" looked like an abandoned coastal fort, which wasn't likely built until somewhere around 1794-1807. So my guess is the Childress family owned a sugar cane plantation and one of the family heads was a sociopathic, pedophile, with extreme narcissism. Se he likely came up with this new private fmaily religion he concocted from a mix of mythology, native American, and African superstitions and dubbed himself some sort of god, or Yellow King, that would be reincarnated through his family line (thus the rampant incest alluded to in the family). And thus the 100-150 years of Carcosa child sacrifices, which were likely slaves at first, began.

I don't think there was anyone in the family as prolific in their killing as Errol. So the question remains, why did Reverend Tuttle and Senator Tuttle cover up Errol Childress' killings rather than just eliminate him? This is why I think this Yellow King is some sort of reincarnated being in their religion. Even though they knew of (and likely participated in) the child sacrifices like the one seen on the video tape, it was likely an annual ritual and not something done on a whim as Errol had been doing post Marie Fontenot. My guess is Errol killed his pops (Sheriff Childress that covered up the Fontenot kidnapping/murder) and took on the mantle of Yellow King or high priest or god incarnate for their kooky family religion. Once he wa sin charge and went hog wild w/ the killings, the Tuttle distanced themselves from Errol but likely still did their annual family Carcosa sacrifice. Why else would Rev. Tuttle keep such a horrific and damning tape if he didn't still enjoy or participate in the family religion to a degree? This is why Tuttle died in 2010 and not Errol, and why Errol lived after 1995. Errol was calling the shots and Tuttle was eliminated as the only link to the tape. After LeDoux was killed in 1995 Errol got scared and went back to making the "soul/devil catchers" as his only public displays until the Lake Charles killing in 2012. I guess after two years with Rev. Tuttle's tape gone missing and no repercussions, Errol figured he was safe again and began his more elaborate displays public displays he started back in 1995.

I fucking loved it.

That Childress bloke chained to the bed in that tiny shack with the blood sneared lunatic nonsense on the walls was just...ugh, that was some Se7en shit right there, made my skin crawl. Great television. One of the most gruesome, creepy as fuck settings seen in awhile.

I loved the set for Carcosa, how it wasn't completely otherworldly, but some creepy ass overgrown fort where a madman awaits the portal. Ugh, that hallucination was fucking awesome as well; the eerie, blurred reality/illusion and the supernatural-but-not-at-all-supernatural stuff in this show is just so my cup of tea, I love it so much.

I'd really glad they didn't try and tie up everything and instead focused on these two characters that we've grown to know....

I agree with pretty much all of that. Se7en was the first thing I thought of when I saw the Childress house interior.

[Queen of Whores]

This is really off-topic but there's nowhere else to ask about it.

Do you guys think we'll ever see something like the seven minute long take at the end of 1x4 in the show again, or do you think it was a one-off? I'm hoping we get something else like it, since it was so amazing and memorable and intense and immersive, but at the same time I'm hoping it doesn't become a gimmick. I'd be happy either way.

[Mark Antony]

This is really off-topic but there's nowhere else to ask about it.

Do you guys think we'll ever see something like the seven minute long take at the end of 1x4 in the show again, or do you think it was a one-off? I'm hoping we get something else like it, since it was so amazing and memorable and intense and immersive, but at the same time I'm hoping it doesn't become a gimmick. I'd be happy either way.

I doubt it tbh. It was Cary Fukunagas creative choice to do that i'm pretty sure and he's not gonna be back directing.

[Khal-a-bunga]

I've mostly refrained from re-watching any of the episodes, in anticipation of going through the entire season in a run, and since I had the day off today I went ahead and did just that...

I've gotta' say, the ending played perfectly for me. The first time around, I think I'd let my expectations and the crazy theorizing affect my viewing experience, but re-watching the entire series in quick succession really was... Fantastic. Everything just flows together so well, and the little bits and pieces that work to tie the larger conspiracy element together really stuck out as elegantly subtle.

I never expected the Yellow King or the Carcosa material to be given a definitive definition within the show, so I guess that helped a lot, too. I'm glad Pizzolatto decided to use that mythology instead of using Satanism as the foil for organized religion, even if some people think there should have been more pay-off for all of those references. I particularly liked all of the references - both auditory and visual - to the "black stars". After that final scene, I thought about that image in a whole new way.

But the main thing I picked up on was the idea of stories, and story-telling, and how that makes up - in all reality - the majority of our lives. Great, great stuff.

Couldn't be happier that both Rust & Hart lived at the end. They can now enter the pantheon of all-time great TV bromances, along with Vorenus & Pullo, J.D. & Turk, and - of course - Bert & Ernie.

EDIT: Also, HBO posted the end credits song with an accompanying video, for anyone whose interested...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08CddEWzYnQ

[polishgenius]

I find it a little bit sad that people are so desperate to have their supernatural oogedy boogedy met that they are going to go with it even when NP has said there just isn't any.

http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/02/27/true-detective-nic-pizzolatto-season-1/

And I don't know why I'm so bug in my bonnet about it. I guess it's because the level of analysis of minutiae for an eight episode television series is on par with nineteen years of analysis over who Jon Snow's parents really are..it's mind boggling and taking it way too seriously. And I was just as guilty at every turn but for the last act I allowed the story to simply be told to me and I guess that's why I'm satisfied with a turmeric covered skeletal prop and one big bad taken down in a group of older, wealthier, powerful uh er big bads who remain as of yet at large.

I actually do think that the hallucination thing was a bit akwardly handled. Like, it's brought up for the episode where he wants lots of visual references to the Yellow King smuggled in, then never made use of again and Rust tells the detectives that he's cured, then suddenly Hart asks him about it and it's revealed he wasn't just in time for him to see that portal (at the worst possible moment to be distracted).

[Miodrag]

I've mostly refrained from re-watching any of the episodes, in anticipation of going through the entire season in a run, and since I had the day off today I went ahead and did just that...

I've gotta' say, the ending played perfectly for me. The first time around, I think I'd let my expectations and the crazy theorizing affect my viewing experience, but re-watching the entire series in quick succession really was... Fantastic. Everything just flows together so well, and the little bits and pieces that work to tie the larger conspiracy element together really stuck out as elegantly subtle.

I never expected the Yellow King or the Carcosa material to be given a definitive definition within the show, so I guess that helped a lot, too. I'm glad Pizzolatto decided to use that mythology instead of using Satanism as the foil for organized religion, even if some people think there should have been more pay-off for all of those references. I particularly liked all of the references - both auditory and visual - to the "black stars". After that final scene, I thought about that image in a whole new way.

But the main thing I picked up on was the idea of stories, and story-telling, and how that makes up - in all reality - the majority of our lives. Great, great stuff.

Couldn't be happier that both Rust & Hart lived at the end. They can now enter the pantheon of all-time great TV bromances, along with Vorenus & Pullo, J.D. & Turk, and - of course - Bert & Ernie.

EDIT: Also, HBO posted the end credits song with an accompanying video, for anyone whose interested...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08CddEWzYnQ

It has to feel good, as a change of pace, to finally write about a show that's actually good, right?

(Sorry, couldn't resist.)

Anyway, I completely agree that TD flows very elegantly all the way, and that some definitive definition in regards to Carcosa stuff wasn't to be expected, nor it is to be missed. Had it been definitive, it would transform TD into a story about a very specific evil (this particular cult/ring), which would've lessen it in my opinion. At the very end of episode 7, which, as someone already wrote here, was the lowest point in the entire show (Errol: "My family's been here for a long time"), I was afraid it'll go that way, but fortunately it didn't.

The way it actually went, TD strikes me as a story about eternal values, seen through this particular set of events that is practically incidental. It's an ode to the everlasting fight against the dark, possibly the only activity that makes our very existence worthwhile - and it's not artificially shy about it, as a lesser show would've been, because it almost spells everything in that final dialogue, without ever falling into some pathetic simplification. In many ways, Marty and Rust are as damaged as they've ever been in that ending scene; that's the toll they had to pay in order to have any chance in accomplishing anything meaningful; and yet, they were clearly and understandably happy; for the first time they could both feel the true joy of human existence, cause they understand it was worth it. Honestly, I don't understand this obsession (much bigger on some other sites than here) with 'clues' and 'hints' that were left 'unresolved'. I took all of that as a great symbolism, all the greater for it's subtle, unimposing nature: evil is all around us, and we only fool ourselves if we think we can escape the fight against it.

And it really is a great video by HBO, one more testament to the quality of TD.

[RumHam]

One thing I'm confused about is the Tuttle brother's involvement in or reaction to Errol's killing people and leaving them to be found. In 1995 they whip up the task force to try to control the investigation, and in 2012 the senator Tuttle uses his influence to keep the murder out of the papers. (How does that work, exactly? I can't imagine how a senator asks the police to keep a ritualistic murder quiet without seeming incredibly suspicious.) Even if they didn't know it was Errol, it should have been a pretty short list of suspects. So why did they just leave him to keep murdering when they were obviously concerned about the attention it would bring?

[Relic]

Am I the only one who thinks they "copped" out at the end? Why couldn't Rust just die? Why do we get a Hollywood happy end with him suddenly getting all positive about shit?

[Mexal]

Am I the only one who thinks they "copped" out at the end? Why couldn't Rust just die? Why do we get a Hollywood happy end with him suddenly getting all positive about shit?

Why not? And why does the heroes living at the end mean it's Hollywood? That happens in real life too.

[Relic]

Its not the fact that he lived that makes it typical Hollywood it's his sudden positive outlook. I dunno I would have preferred that he died in that chamber, and then having Marty make those final comments.

[Elder Sister]

I don't necessarily think it was a 'Hollywood' ending. A bunch of bad guys got away with murder. And while Rust is slightly more positive than he was, I doubt he's gone all rainbows and unicorns. I'm sure he's still somewhere being negative, wordy, and cryptic. It's just his basic nature. But he's no longer plotting suicide through psychotic backwoods serial killer. :P

[RumHam]

Am I the only one who thinks they "copped" out at the end? Why couldn't Rust just die? Why do we get a Hollywood happy end with him suddenly getting all positive about shit?

From an interview:

For me as a storyteller, I want to follow the characters and the story through what they organically demand. And it would have been the easiest thing in the world to kill one or both of these guys. I even had an idea where something more mysterious happened to them, where they vanished into the unknown and Gilbough and Papania had to clean up the mess and nobody knows what happens to them. Or it could have gone full blown supernatural. But I think both of those things would have been easy, and they would have denied the sort of realist questions the show had been asking all along. To retreat to the supernatural, or to take the easy dramatic route of killing a character in order to achieve an emotional response from the audience, I thought would have been a disservice to the story. What was more interesting to me is that both these men are left in a place of deliverance, a place where even Cohle might be able to acknowledge the possibility of grace in the world.

There's also the fact that he retained the literary rights for the characters, so he at least wanted the option of using those characters again down the road. Which would probably require them to be alive.

[Kalbear]

Rusts Hollywood ending would have been to die sacrificing himself.

[Tobin]

Rusts Hollywood ending would have been to die sacrificing himself.

Which would have tied in with his idea of crucifixion and what it would take to allow yourself to be butchered for the greater good.

I was convinced he was dead too, especially after being practically gutted.

[Fragile Bird]

I assumed one of them would die, but that Rust would live because Rust dying would be too neatly packaged. Then as the last half hour unfolded, I was beginning to think both would die. When the scene in the burrow ended with so much time left in the program, I wondered if they would do a death bed scene.

Having both survive was unexpected. The fashion now is for death of at least one character, if not both, isn't it? I was going to say having both survive was an old fashioned ending, but I really don't think that's true, only John Wayne always survived (except once).

[Mexal]

From an interview:

There's also the fact that he retained the literary rights for the characters, so he at least wanted the option of using those characters again down the road. Which would probably require them to be alive.

Good read. Thanks.