[TWoW SPOILERS] March chapter mercy part ii

[ARYa_Nym]

The way that she reverts back to "Arya" at the end of the chapter... could it be that this was meant as a symbolic parallel with Dany's rekindling of her dragon side and Jon's decision to battle Ramsay as we saw in Dance? Seems like we may be setting up for some long-awaited eventualities here.

Well this:

As I cannot be the hero, let me be the monster, and lesson them in fear in place of love.”

Mercy mouthed the last lines along with him. They were better lines than hers, and apt besides.

Reminded me of Dany embracing the monster in ADWD. Of course Tyrion already embraced it earlier.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

I think the epilogue is where Kevan suggests that Harys goes to Braavos...not sure about Raff (at work or I'd look it up). Either way that puts this chapter firmly after Kevan's death.

Yes ok i am looking it up......Harys has been sent to collect from Iron Bank of Braavos. Hahaha good luck idiot, the throne is in so much debt, why in the world would the Lannisters think the IB is going to give them more money?

[Chebyshov]

Yes ok i am looking it up......Harys has been sent to collect from Iron Bank of Braavos. Hahaha good luck idiot, the throne is in so much debt, why in the world would the Lannisters think the IB is going to give them more money?

Thanks for checking this! The IB has made some pretty bad investments lately. Not to mention the deal Tycho made with Jon isn't likely to be honored now that there will be a different Lord Commander.

[Ser Wun Wun]

Wait a minute...

If the Arya chapter is this controversial with the sexualization, Arya's detachment, and the ritualistic murder of Raff, but it's the SANSA chapter that was suggested to be the potentially controversial one...

Just how fucked up is that Sansa chapter going to be?

I can't remember all the possibilities that were discussed in the original thread on her "controversial" chapter, so I might have read this and it just got buried in my subconscious, but a truly horrible and (hopefully) crackpot possibility occurred to me while reading this chapter.

While her character in the play might not be based on Sansa, I think that "Mercy" herself may be based on her. Or at least based on Arya's conception of Sansa. There were a couple lines that made me think this:

The fruit knife belonged to Mercy. She was made for eating fruit, for smiling and joking, for working hard and doing as she was told

She was a giggly sort of girl, was Mercy.

A good girl, a happy soul who does what she's told and is prone to giggling. That sounds a bit like Sansa in the GOT era when Arya last saw her.

With that in mind, this is the line that was very disturbing:

It would be just like Mercy to sleep through her own rape

When I read that, the possibility of LF dousing Sansa with Sweetsleep (through her Lemoncakes) and....you know....shot through my mind. :ack:

I can actually picture GRRM writing something as creepy and horrible as Sansa going groggy and blacking out, then waking up not really knowing what had happened. That way the rape isn't detailed, but only murkily alluded to. Sansa herself maybe never even suspects, and readers just feel a terrible sense of dread.

If Sansa actually does get married to someone and ends up pregnant shortly after we would never know if it was LF's kid or her husbands. I know Sansa and LF have been tied to the Bael the Bard story. Disturbingly, the girl in that story ended up with Bael's kid....

I'm just being paranoid. This will not happen. This will not happen. This will not happen.

[Lord Varys]

Suzanna,

in the Epilogue the financial situation of the Iron Throne is discussed during the council session. Ser Harys negotiates without much success with a Myrish banking cartel, and Mace and Randyll push that he go to Braavos to settle things with the Iron Bank. Ser Harys is not looking forward to that. Later, Kevan shares a private word with his father-in-law before he retires to Maegor's Holdfast, indicating that Ser Harys will eventually have to go to Braavos, but certainly not on the next day!

Kevan also suggests that Harys - being afraid of the Tyrells - hire some of Gregor's former men which cameto KL with Red Ronnet Connington as personal guards.

The chapter in itself most certainly was supposed to conclude Arya's arc in AFfC/ADwD, since Raff started to feature prominently in Jaime's arc in AFfC, to no avail whatsoever. I guess originally Ser Harys was sent to Braavos by Cersei, shortly before the arrest of the queens. But that's not an option now, and GRRM should try to mirror the current situation in KL. Even if Cersei would be in power again after her trial, the Tyrells would not back down. She could only reclaim the Regency through violence (i.e. by killing Mace, Tarly, Margaery).

My best guess is that Mace commanded Ser Harys to go to Braavos during the emergency council session (certainly) following the discovery of the bodies of Kevan and Pycelle. Thus he could rid his Small Council of the last Lannister crony that remains.

[kephv]

If personality absorption does occur, then it would account for Arya's jarring character change and her rash killing of Raff. It would certainly resolve some of the problems I'm having with this chapter.

But then again, wouldn't that render her FM training moot. If every time she dons a new face her personality changes and becomes subject to the whims of the former face wearer.

She needed no excuse to want kill Raff, since he was on her list. This is her acting entirely in accordance with her own inner desires. Of course, she may very well have been influenced by Mercy (and I think it likely, and perhaps the longer one wears a face the more they become the person they are playing), but her wanting him dead that bad simply reflects the fact that she is willing to do anything to get the job done, which is entirely in line with the way her character has been developed thus far.

As for the faces, that's probably why the training is so important. There might be a real danger of someone lacking experience of being caught up in the act to the extent where they lose sight of the mission.

[The Abominable SnowOther]

When I read that, the possibility of LF dousing Sansa with Sweetsleep (through her Lemoncakes) and....you know....shot through my mind. :ack:

I can actually picture GRRM writing something as creepy and horrible as Sansa going groggy and blacking out, then waking up not really knowing what had happened. That way the rape isn't detailed, but only murkily alluded to. Sansa herself maybe never even suspects, and readers just feel a terrible sense of dread.

If Sansa actually does get married to someone and ends up pregnant shortly after we would never know if it was LF's kid or her husbands. I know Sansa and LF have been tied to the Bael the Bard story. Disturbingly, the girl in that story ended up with Bael's kid....

I'm just being paranoid. This will not happen. This will not happen. This will not happen.

i hate you for putting this image in my mind

[Grail King]

On the Sansa issue, maybe Lady Sto(a)rk also AKA Lannister is the one telling the story of Tyrion, Shae and Tywin?

[butterbumps!]

I don't know why it'd be out of place for a mummer.

Marro is referred to more than once by his actual name, but yes, she also refers to him quite a bit as the Stranger. That said, we get a direct account of the gown, and we also have the fact that she keeps thinking her as Lady Stork when she refers to the actress liking a drink before each play.

This is a place where people can be known as the Sailor's Wife or the Black Pearl. Don't see a problem for an actress to be known as Lady Stork.

For me, it's the use of "Lady" as a title I think is weird. It's not merely that that seems out of place, but the fact that it's so apropos to the play in question adjacently. Doesn't it seem a bit strange that a "Lady Stork" is in a play where no less than 3 "Lady Starks" could be reasonably expected, one of whom was already a queen, another the queen's mother, a third, Cersei's worst queen nightmare ? (which, depending on the message they want to send her and what exactly this Forel guy's deal is, if they are in league with any particular Westerosi contacts, such antagonism might not be that out of bounds, given that we know the IB is ejecting the Lannisters)

I'm just thinking that if it were a play about Targs, and someone in the play was being referred to as the "Black Dragon" (to go along with "Black Pearl" citation), I'd probably assume it was a character rather than a person.

One other thing that's niggling me-- do we know how Ned managed to locate Syrio so expediently in KL? (Arya starts her lessons 3 days after Ned finds Needle; who helped him with that?)

[Chebyshov]

On the Sansa issue, maybe Lady Sto(a)rk also AKA Lannister is the one telling the story of Tyrion, Shae and Tywin?

How would she know about Shae though? Did that become common knowledge?

[tf13]

Loved the chapter, though it was strange thinking of Arya being groped, or even making out with an older man, but it just shows that she's growing up at an incredible rate in comparison to her sister. Arya reallllly needs to get in with another POV - and soon!

[Maester Pedant]

For me, it's the use of "Lady" as a title I think is weird. It's not merely that that seems out of place, but the fact that it's so apropos to the play in question adjacently. Doesn't it seem a bit strange that a "Lady Stork" is in a play where no less than 3 "Lady Starks" could be reasonably expected, one of whom was already a queen, another the queen's mother, a third, Cersei's worst queen nightmare ? (which, depending on the message they want to send her and what exactly this Forel guy's deal is, if they are in league with any particular Westerosi contacts, such antagonism might not be that out of bounds, given that we know the IB is ejecting the Lannisters)

I'm just thinking that if it were a play about Targs, and someone in the play was being referred to as the "Black Dragon" (to go along with "Black Pearl" citation), I'd probably assume it was a character rather than a person.

One other thing that's niggling me-- do we know how Ned managed to locate Syrio so expediently in KL? (Arya starts his lessons the morning after Ned finds Needle; who helped him with that?)

Considering that the focus of the play is Tyrion the Imp, Tyrion the Demon Monkey, Tyrion the Bloody Hand, only one Lady Stark is almost certainly portrayed: Sansa, or, to be more precise, her dramatic counterpart.

[Ran]

Why not call her Queen Stork, since she's playing a queen? Like I said, it seems from the later reference that when they talk of Lady Stork, they're talking of the actress. After all, why would Daena necessarily refer to the actress by the name of her role? It's Arya, and only Arya, who seems stuck with the Stranger thing... and that makes sense to me, to some degree, since she has a special affinity for the Stranger, one of the many faces of the Many-Faced God.

[Chebyshov]

Loved the chapter, though it was strange thinking of Arya being groped, or even making out with an older man, but it just shows that she's growing up at an incredible rate in comparison to her sister. Arya reallllly needs to get in with another POV - and soon!

Agreed, and this certainly wet my appetite for more WoW content. However, I will say it's pretty unrealistic that a pre-pubescent girl knows how to use her feminine wiles to her advantage. I have no problem that this was her method, but unless more time passed than I realized, this did feel very out of place to me.

[Moondancer]

See? thought Mercy. You know your line, and so do I.

Think so? asked Arya, sweetly.

It's Arya playing Mercy playing Arya, essentially.

The whole tone is of the chapter is highly spirited, akin to the farcical tone of the play. :) But most importantly, it tastes like The Winds (new,exciting), unlike the Essos material.

Guardian thinks the chapter is a cracker|Rings up GRRM 's publisher to ask about TWoW

[ARYa_Nym]

Mercy could be based on memories and she does have prostitutes for reference. Liking songs, being sweet, etc. could describe Lanna. Mercy also violently threatens though.

Anyways, on the previous thread it was mentioned Raff was Arya's first kiss but if Arya disassociates it then may consider it Mercy's not Arya's.

[juanml82]

Hated this chapter.

Its completely out of nowhere for Arya (who is 11 BTW) to become a seductress and be 100% comfortable with this. If GRRM had done a five year gap then I would understand; but this is a total out the blue character change.

Also, GRRM having Arya touch his cock and other actions is just disgusting considering the age of the character. She is 11, the character has not even hit puberty by Aryas own words. The fact that the author insists on writing these scenes with pedophilic undertones is just sick. Why are guys who consider young girls asexual considered unusual in ASOIAF? Having Arya be the initiator of such scenes doesn't give the character agency or power; its just creepy and just shows that GRRM is ignoring the characters age and treating her like shes 15/16

More useless filler material that does nothing to advance the plot.Get her back to Westeros where the real story is.

Her whole character act in the trope of mummers with the fake cock was a dumb, stupid, obnoxious and unfunny waste. Who the hell thinks to themselves "Mercy, mercy, I need to worry about the dwarfs floppy cock". Its like a very bad Little Britain sketch rather than a serious story or drama.

I have always been of the opinion that GRRM started his books the same way Feist did with the characters being very young children and then intending to age them all up to the standard age of most heroic fantasy characters where he could actually properly explore their coming of age and sexuality. For one reasons and another, he failed to do that but clearly still wants to tell this aspect of their characters. Resulting in every character being underage and so much pedophile content. Honestly, I hate this change in Arya to make out as if an 11 year old girl can be this seductress type or black widow who kills the many men who swoon over her.

I don't think it's out of nowhere. Maise Williams gave an interview a few days ago and while show and books are different canon, I think there are things that apply here. Basically, she said Arya shouldn't be anyone's favorite character anymore and that she doesn't really give a fuck (or something along those lines). And that's in character in the books. She's not completely empty (her regret from having to abandon Mercy and the mummers troupe shows this), but she barely cares for anything else than her vengeance. She's way too damaged.

And for her, there is no difference in kissing Raff back or touching his crotch than to cut a whole in the insurance man's bag. That is perfectly in character. Her act as a seductress is, well, that, a performance. And she doesn't get any sort of emotions for doing so. Her emotions are reserved to murder.

And it is disturbing that a prepubescent character acts that way. It's meant to be that way. GRRM is precisely not ignoring the character age. Her age makes the entire chapter even more disturbing.

Also, I this pretty much settles any debate regarding pedophilia (as in, raping boys and girls who haven't hit puberty) in Westeros. The other Lannister guard thinks Raff is sick. Hell, he even thinks that after Mercy lies about being a maiden. He's not True Knight so he's not going to stop him but I think it makes it clear that having intercourse with such young girls is not something a decent Westerosi does.

Of course, some people will get put off by such scenes. Which is perfectly fine, each one of us come to the books with their own set of experiences and ideas and there is no point in arguing whether someone should get aesthetic pleasure from this work of art or if someone gets put off by it.

[Cas Stark]

Why not call her Queen Stork, since she's playing a queen? Like I said, it seems from the later reference that when they talk of Lady Stork, they're talking of the actress. After all, why would Daena necessarily refer to the actress by the name of her role? It's Arya, and only Arya, who seems stuck with the Stranger thing... and that makes sense to me, to some degree, since she has a special affinity for the Stranger, one of the many faces of the Many-Faced God.

It seems an awfully strange coincidence that the Braavosi actress would be called Lady Stork in a play about Tyrion Lannister, who is married to Lady Sansa Stark, doesn't it?

[First of My Name]

That was awesome, props to George. If the rest of TWOW is like this it'll replace ASOS as my favorite.

Guardian thinks the chapter is a cracker|Rings up GRRM 's publisher to ask about TWoW

The article mentions October/November 2015 as a possible release date... a year and a half from now. Could be worse (but I mustn't jump to conclusions).

[Newstar]

Ser Wun Wun, hasn't GRRM said no POV rapes? Also, LF's goal is clearly to win Sansa over. He could overpower her physically anytime he wanted; it's her psychological submission and desire for him that he wants. Thus his grooming offensive. It sounds weird, but I think LF rather enjoys wearing down Sansa's defences: "cheating" by raping her in her sleep or holding her down and raping her would in a sick way take the fun out of it for him.

I do think there is a good chance Sansa winds up with LF's bastard child at the end of this mess. I just don't think it will be through raping her while unconscious.

I'd sort of ruled out the really controversial stuff for the Sansa chapter, since it was only said that it might be controversial in some quarters of the fandom. After this Arya chapter, which was not supposed to be the controversial one, all bets are off. Something hugely fucked up is happening in that chapter, I feel: Sweetrobin dying at Sansa's hands, Littlefinger/Sansa sex, or something equally crazy and horrifying.