[TWoW SPOILERS] March chapter mercy part ii

[DrunkSister]

I agree that the size of Needle is a good point against. Still, everything else seems to fit.

Crannog Dweller - she hid Needle beneath a loose stepstone outside the house of B&W. Nothing stops her from retrieving it when leaving to Izembaro.

Also, she might be packing Needle everytime she leaves her room. Or, if she had another assignment, she could've got it with this intention.

Mirijam, it's not impossible to pierce an artery from point blank with the fruit knife. Also, the "thin long blade" fits with Needle.

Finally, why would she make the point of it not being Mercy's like her other treasures (the treasures were a silver spoon etc that the sailors of the ship gave her upon arrival in Braavos).

We know she had a second blade, whether she used it or not. Why wouldn't it belong to Mercy if it was just a random blade and not needle?

I will bow to your greater knowledge of what a fruit knife can do (at least until I have to prepare a raw chicken then we shall see lol).

As for why she would make a point of the blade not belonging to Mercy, I have read it as because they are out of character for the persona but No-one still needs to be armed.

The way I read it, she had used the hidden blade both times. :dunno:

Needle, as an official HBO replica, is 30 inches = 76.2 cm. That's with the hilt, not only the blade.

I imagine it as holding a long dagger in a trenchcoat - maybe not the most comfortable, but definitely not impossible. I am pretty sure it's needle.

30in in her sleeve? I can't fit more than 10, I doubt she is that much taller then me at 11.

I am pretty sure it isn't Needle. :P Whoever turns out to be right gets bragging rights and the loser has to wear a silly signature for a week?

[butterbumps!]

So, one thing that's bothering me-- I don't think "Lady Stork" is the actress' name. I think that's a character:

“Mercy,” her friend Daena implored, “Lady Stork has stepped on the hem of her gown again. Come help me sew it up.”

“Mercy,” the Stranger called, “bring the bloody paste, my horn is coming loose.”

The Stranger isn't that actor's real name, but the part he's playing-- I think we're to understand both as roles, as these two are in costumes, already assuming their role. The names go back and forth-- it navigates between the actors' names and the parts they're playing in this section. I know later we're told of "Lady Stork's fondness for wine" before a show, but I'm not so sure this isn't a purposeful retaining of the name "Stork" on Arya's part when speaking of the actress. Another issue I have with Lady Stork as the actress' name is that it seems like a really bizarre name for a mummer in Braavos, doesn't it? I mean, the title "Lady" for a mummer?

I saw that Ran confirmed that "Lady Stork" was the actress, and the role was Cersei, but I'm curious-- Ran, is this how you interpreted the text, or is there something else that led you to that? If it's debatable whether "Lady Stork" indeed refers to the actress, then I think something else might be going on with the play.

On another topic, is it truly requisite that Cersei has already won her trial if she's in power now? She's in the Keep when we see her last, and now the main roadblock to her empowerment (Kevan) is dead. Why couldn't this be set in an intermediary period between Kevan's death and her trial? What if that trial is indefinitely postponed pending further action? I'd imagine once she saw Kevan was dead, she'd seize control. Could this simply be that she re-established her authority in the aftermath of executions?

[Elementite]

Having finished the chapter I'd say that this is the first time I've read something that felt like it took place firmly in GRRM's Post-Time Skip World. Arya's done a lot of growing up by now, and she's seems to be turning into a proper little killer. Had goosebumps the entire time. I don't really have a problem with this whole sexuality thing people seem to be upset about, it seemed totally in character for Mercy-Arya. She learned the mummer's ways, of course she knows about sexual manipulation. Super interested to know what her true mission was.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

We already knew that Targaryen blood was not always dominant. For example, Baelor Breakspear inherited his mother's Dornish looks. So Nettles being of Targaryen descent was always a possibility.

Edit: Also, it would have been quite odd if the courtesan known as the Black Pearl of Braavos looked like Daenerys. I know "Black Pearl" is basically a hereditary title, but after a while it would become ridiculous.

OH of course of course, I knew all that . But I have had several arguments with posters about Nettles, how it is impossible for her to be a dragonseed. This proves that there are seeds with dark skin :)

Perhaps Oberyn got on with the previous Black Pearl while he was up in Braavos, and brought baby, Sarella, back with him as a souvenir?

The original Black Pearl is probably too old for Oberyn right? I guess we dont know how many years ago she was pearling around.

[Veltigar]

Well we finally meet the Black Pearl, and one of my favorite theories goes down the tubes. Apparently no chance that Faegon's mother could be the Black Pearl, thus Serra becomes the only canidate I can think of.

I wonder if Sarella, mom could be a prior Black Pearl? How many years ago was Oberyn in Braavos?

Told you so :p

I wonder if Sarella, mom could be a prior Black Pearl? How many years ago was Oberyn in Braavos?

It's stated in the book that her mother was a captain on a Summer Islander ship. I think that excludes the previous Black Pearl

[Lady Fevre Dream]

Back reading this thread makes me wonder how many people think Arya will be dead by the end of the series and vice versa. She's definitely walking down a dangerous path, but no one is more prepared to deal with death than her. I think she'll still be alive at the end, but I'm biased since she's my favorite character.

I have no idea on whether Arya will or won't survive the series. Many times I've seen Arya equated to the example of the modern day child soldier, and as we know......sometimes, they are saved and have a life beyond that, who knows? Saved isn't the best word, but it's also the parallel I use to tell myself........she could make it.

[FittleLinger]

I will bow to your greater knowledge of what a fruit knife can do (at least until I have to prepare a raw chicken then we shall see lol).

As for why she would make a point of the blade not belonging to Mercy, I have read it as because they are out of character for the persona but No-one still needs to be armed.

The way I read it, she had used the hidden blade both times. :dunno:

30in in her sleeve? I can't fit more than 10, I doubt she is that much taller then me at 11.

I am pretty sure it isn't Needle. :P Whoever turns out to be right gets bragging rights and the loser has to wear a silly signature for a week?

Eh, I said not impossible, I am no expert in fruit cutlery versus human flesh either :P

She probably moved it to her sleeve from her pocket, or the pocket is designed in such a way that it can get in her sleeve with one swift motion.

I am taking your bet, for the sake of fun :D But wait - is the bet whether she had Needle with her at all, or whether it was used on Raff?

[ARYa_Nym]

When she was blind she had taken the habit of having blades within her clothes.

“Under them she hid three knives…Braavosi were a kindly folk…more likely to help the poor blind beggar girl than try to do her harm, but there were always a few bad ones who might see her as someone they could safely rob or rape. The blades were for them, though so far the blind girl had not been forced to use them.”

Nymeria Sand does the same thing.

[Ran]

butterbumps,

As I noted above, it's the fact that after Arya is asked to help fix the hem of Lady Stork's gown, we see her going to help fix the hem of the cloth-of-gold gown that the "queen" will wear, as part of a passage where we see her help with everything she's asked to do -- fix the horn on the Stranger, find Izembaro's crown, and so on. Also, when she gives Lady Stork her nip of wine, it's as she likes to have them before every play. Seems to me Lady Stork is just what they call the actress.

[Newstar]

Wait a minute...

If the Arya chapter is this controversial with the sexualization, Arya's detachment, and the ritualistic murder of Raff, but it's the SANSA chapter that was suggested to be the potentially controversial one...

Just how fucked up is that Sansa chapter going to be?

[TheCrannogDweller]

So if the first Black Pearl had very dark 'black as ink' skin and a Targaryen prince took her as a lover, that means there are people out there with black/dark skin and Targ blood, aka Nettles.

If you're implying that there may be Targaryen-blooded people without the signature silver hair and purple eyes traits, then yes. But I thought that this has been acknowledged as fact for quite some time now.

However, if you're saying that Nettles is descended from the original Black Pearl and the Dragon prince, then no. Ran confirmed that the prince in question was Aegon IV.

[Colonel Green]

So if the first Black Pearl had very dark 'black as ink' skin and a Targaryen prince took her as a lover, that means there are people out there with black/dark skin and Targ blood, aka Nettles.

The first Black Pearl had children with Aegon IV, so it wouldn't have anything to do with Nettles.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

So, one thing that's bothering me-- I don't think "Lady Stork" is the actress' name. I think that's a character:

“Mercy,” her friend Daena implored, “Lady Stork has stepped on the hem of her gown again. Come help me sew it up.”

“Mercy,” the Stranger called, “bring the bloody paste, my horn is coming loose.”

The Stranger isn't that actor's real name, but the part he's playing-- I think we're to understand both as roles, as these two are in costumes, already assuming their role. The names go back and forth-- it navigates between the actors' names and the parts they're playing in this section. I know later we're told of "Lady Stork's fondness for wine" before a show, but I'm not so sure this isn't a purposeful retaining of the name "Stork" on Arya's part when speaking of the actress. Another issue I have with Lady Stork as the actress' name is that it seems like a really bizarre name for a mummer in Braavos, doesn't it? I mean, the title "Lady" for a mummer?

I saw that Ran confirmed that "Lady Stork" was the actress, and the role was Cersei, but I'm curious-- Ran, is this how you interpreted the text, or is there something else that led you to that? If it's debatable whether "Lady Stork" indeed refers to the actress, then I think something else might be going on with the play.

On another topic, is it truly requisite that Cersei has already won her trial if she's in power now? She's in the Keep when we see her last, and now the main roadblock to her empowerment (Kevan) is dead. Why couldn't this be set in an intermediary period between Kevan's death and her trial? What if that trial is indefinitely postponed pending further action? I'd imagine once she saw Kevan was dead, she'd seize control. Could this simply be that she re-established her authority in the aftermath of executions?

I think Cersei must be in power again, the Westerosi are talking about the dwarf and following him out of there, so there must still be pressure from Cersei to capture any dwarf right? If she was still on trial, I doubt anyone would be caring too much about catching Tyrion still right?

[Cas Stark]

Wait a minute...

If the Arya chapter is this controversial with the sexualization, Arya's detachment, and the ritualistic murder of Raff, but it's the SANSA chapter that was suggested to be the potentially controversial one...

Just how fucked up is that Sansa chapter going to be?

mmmmm. indeed.

[Mark Antony]

Wait a minute...

If the Arya chapter is this controversial with the sexualization, Arya's detachment, and the ritualistic murder of Raff, but it's the SANSA chapter that was suggested to be the potentially controversial one...

Just how fucked up is that Sansa chapter going to be?

:O

Seriously hopefully not too controversial lol. I can only take so much :D

[Lyanna Stark]

Wait a minute...

If the Arya chapter is this controversial with the sexualization, Arya's detachment, and the ritualistic murder of Raff, but it's the SANSA chapter that was suggested to be the potentially controversial one...

Just how fucked up is that Sansa chapter going to be?

It's going to be Myranda having a long monologue to Alayne about the wonders of "sodomy" and people will rage. You heard it here first! :lol:

[Suzanna Stormborn]

If you're implying that there may be Targaryen-blooded people without the signature silver hair and purple eyes traits, then yes. But I thought that this has been acknowledged as fact for quite some time now.

However, if you're saying that Nettles is descended from the original Black Pearl and the Dragon prince, then no. Ran confirmed that the prince in question was Aegon IV.

The first Black Pearl had children with Aegon IV, so it wouldn't have anything to do with Nettles.

I dont think that Nettles is related to Black Pearl. i was just stating that here we have a dark skinned woman who slept with a Targ prince. That there is a possibility of dark skinned dragon seeds in general.

[DrunkSister]

Eh, I said not impossible, I am no expert in fruit cutlery versus human flesh either :P

She probably moved it to her sleeve from her pocket, or the pocket is designed in such a way that it can get in her sleeve with one swift motion.

I am taking your bet, for the sake of fun :D But wait - is the bet whether she had Needle with her at all, or whether it was used on Raff?

Lets make it that I claim that the hidden blade is not Needle and that you claim that it is.

Wait a minute...

If the Arya chapter is this controversial with the sexualization, Arya's detachment, and the ritualistic murder of Raff, but it's the SANSA chapter that was suggested to be the potentially controversial one...

Just how fucked up is that Sansa chapter going to be?

Eeeeek! :leaving:

[Veltigar]

For a post actually on topic, instead of all my thanks to everyone, here we go:

I wanted to weigh in on the Lemon tree issue with Dany and Braavos and what our Dear Mercy had to say. I'm thinking Dany and her Red Door and her lemon tree were in spring or summer, and that the rich people perhaps do try growing these things, imported from other places. I remember years ago, back when Snow Birds starting going to Florida for the Winter from my home in NJ, they used to bring back little lemon or orange trees, and try to grow them. Perhaps, with the years that a spring or summer could last, a lemon tree could be grown in the backyard of someone from Braavos?

ETA: But honestly, George is deliciously evil. I'm wondering if he's seen some of the lemon tree theories, LOL

I never really got the controversy about the lemon tree. They are probably kept in big pots. There was this programme with Monty Don, the famous British gardener, where he visits gardens in France. I think that it was at Versailles (though I'm not sure) that they kept citrus trees in big pots (they had a special name but I can't remember) and rolled them out every summer. In the winter they were kept inside in the Orangery.

A similar thing probably happens In Braavos.

[aryagonnakill#2]

butterbumps,

As I noted above, it's the fact that after Arya is asked to help fix the hem of Lady Stork's gown, we see her going to help fix the hem of the cloth-of-gold gown that the "queen" will wear, as part of a passage where we see her help with everything she's asked to do -- fix the horn on the Stranger, find Izembaro's crown, and so on. Also, when she gives Lady Stork her nip of wine, it's as she likes to have them before every play. Seems to me Lady Stork is just what they call the actress.

The last we saw of Cersei in AFFC she was also drinking a lot of wine, I know that it is the actress drinking and not her character, but still.