A Compendium of Theories v.2

[Megorova]

21 hours ago, Lady_Qohor said:

Really??????????? You think Larra came back to Westeros decades later, in disguise, and became her own son's mistress, even going so far as to have his child. And all this based on no evidence. I know this is ASOIAF but really??????????

I'm currently working on my Grand Theory, 16 interconnected threads. I think I'll gradually post them in June or July. Look then for a thread "Swan Song part 3/16. Larra Rogare, a chameleon and a cat-woman". There I will provide plenty of evidences. Indisputable.

Edited March 22, 2021 by Megorova

[Lilac & Gooseberries]

On 3/16/2021 at 2:24 PM, Megorova said:

three bastards of Aerion Brightflame (that he fathered during his exile to Lys).

Is there any proof for that or it's like everything else with no proof?

[Megorova]

3 hours ago, Lilac & Gooseberries said:

Is there any proof for that or it's like everything else with no proof?

https://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Many_Questions/

Q "whether Dany has any kin in Lys because of Aerion Brightfire's exile"

A "Aerion Brightfire did not stay in Lys all his life, only a few years. He may have fathered a few bastards there, which would mean Dany has "relatives" of a sort in Lys... but they would be very distant relatives, from the wrong side of the blanket."

If there was only one child, then GRRM would have said that he may have fathered a bastard there. If there was two children, then he would have said - he may have fathered a couple of bastards there. Though GRRM specifically phrased that he may have fathered a few bastards there, which means that there was more than two. Aerion didn't spent at Lys many many yeras, just a few, but more than two. And because GRRM is frequently using trinities in ASOIAF and his other works, seems that three children is the most likely option.

You know, like three bastard-children of Saera Targaryen, three bastard-children of Aegon IV, born by Bellegere Otherys. Thus, to complete a set of trinities, there should be one more set of three bastards by Targaryen+someone across the Narrow Sea-parents. Three bastards fathered by Aerion seems to be a likely option.

Edited April 2, 2021 by Megorova

[Lilac & Gooseberries]

1 minute ago, Megorova said:

https://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Many_Questions/

Q "whether Dany has any kin in Lys because of Aerion Brightfire's exile"

A "Aerion Brightfire did not stay in Lys all his life, only a few years. He may have fathered a few bastards there, which would mean Dany has "relatives" of a sort in Lys... but they would be very distant relatives, from the wrong side of the blanket."

I know about it, there is no clue about three bastards. There may or may not be any of them and if there are any Brightflames can be any number over 2. 

[Megorova]

Could be that Meryn Trant is a Faceless Man, same as Syrio Forel. So they faked their fight while Arya was still there, and then Meryn let Syrio escape to the dungeons, where he went back into his cell and put on Jaqen's face.

[Aejohn the Conqueroo]

On 9/7/2021 at 7:24 AM, Megorova said:

Could be that Meryn Trant is a Faceless Man, same as Syrio Forel. So they faked their fight while Arya was still there, and then Meryn let Syrio escape to the dungeons, where he went back into his cell and put on Jaqen's face.

Probably the bulk of the Lannister guards were Faceless men too otherwise the secret would have gotten out. I think we can reliably count Ned and Cat Stark as members of the Faceless Men. They clearly raised Sansa (Faceless Girl) to be an assassin to take down Joffrey which is unfortunate because Joff was ( you guessed it) a Faceless Man as well.

[Loose Bolt]

What about all those FM who had forgotten that they were Faceless Men? After all major potential problem in that trade is people who gained new face and kept using that face so long that they lost their original identity and so became useless for their old brotherhood.

[asongofheresy]

Would like to post some crackpots of mine, I believe Alicent Hightower, Mysaria, Serenei, and Serra are descendants of Saera Targaryen, in Alicent and Mysaria's case they are her daughters. Illyrio Mopatis is Salladhor Saan. Dalla wife of Mance Rayder, and Dalla the washerwoman from Cressen POV are the same person. Lysano Maar is a Rogare.

Edited October 31, 2021 by asongofheresy

[Willam Stark]

4 minutes ago, asongofheresy said:

Would like to post some crackpots of mine, I believe Alicent Hightower, Mysaria, Serenei, and Serra are descendants of Saera Targaryen, in Alicent and Mysaria's case they are her daughters. Illyrio Mopatis is Salladhor Saan. Dalla wife of Mance Rayder, and Dalla the washerwoman from Cressen POV are the same person. Lysano Maar is a Rogare.

You have a more appropriate topic for that.

 

[asongofheresy]

4 minutes ago, Willam Stark said:

You have a more appropriate topic for that.

 

But a prediction will be about the future no? With the exception of Illyrio Saan reveal, the ones about lineages of Saera and Rogate are just world building, and Dalla is just a curiousity to point out, they share a name and both women are pregnant at their first introductions, though it could only be a hint that Stannis and Mance eventually meeting at some point like they did. 

Plus I already pointed out the theories are crackpot, but still they are theories and harmless besides. 

Edited October 31, 2021 by asongofheresy

[Megorova]

This is NOT a theory (or at least not a theory in a conventional sense of this word), I just thought that I should share this info.

This page -

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Years_after_Aegon's_Conquest/Calculations_Ages_(Continued3)#Serenei_of_Lys

there's an info -

"Following rule #5, Serenei was no older than ~52 years old at the birth of her child, Shiera Seastar,^[111] who was born no earlier than 178 AC (see Shiera Seastar). Therefore Serenei would have been born no earlier than ~126 AC."

And that rule #5 is this -

"A mother will be no older than ~52 years old at the earliest possibility for the birth of her youngest child, for the following reason: the Westerosi consider the age of forty-two to be "past [a woman's] childbearing years", and forty-four to be "well past her childbearing years",^[9][10][11] although women of forty-four have been known to give birth to a child.^[10][11] In real-life, the end of a woman's fertile cycle (menopause) occurs at an age of 49-52 on average, giving ~52 as a maximum age for giving birth to a child."

THAT'S NOT TRUE!!!

That is soooo wrong. That rule is obviously faulty. Because:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pregnancy_over_age_50#Cases_of_pregnancy_over_age_50

In that list there are even several women who gave birth when they were aged 70+. Those pregnancies were achieved thru "Postmenopausal IVF treatment with oocytes donation". Obviously that there are no such things at Planetos, though they have an alternative - blood magic. 

These are my speculations on this topic:

Spoiler

“Lady Shiera does. Lord Bloodraven’s paramour. She bathes in blood to keep her beauty." - Egg, The Sworn Sword.

" "Sweet Serenei," Aegon called her, but about his court she was considered cold and haughty, and some said that she was much older than the king, and preserved her beauty by the practice of dark arts." - GRRM, SSM.

Old/aging women are not beautiful, and they themselves think so too, otherwise the women aged past 35 wouldn't have been using various skin treatments, to prevent the appearance of wrinkles, nor would have been dyeing their graying hair. Am I right, or am I right?

So those phrases - bathes in blood to keep her beauty (note that at this point in time (in 211 AC) Lady Shiera was 26 or 27 years old) & preserved her beauty by the practice of dark arts - could mean not only that by the usage of black magic/blood magic those women were simply retaining their beauty, but also that they were retaining the physical youth of their bodies.

There is a possibility that thru the application of the blood magic, it is possible to completely stop the aging processes, and for the user's body to remain eternally young (at least there are numerous legends, myths and fairy tales on this topic. For example - Ambrosia of the Olympian Gods, Northern Goddess Iðunn and her golden apples, youth-apples in the Slavic fairy tales, Cleopatra's milk-bathes, Countess Bathory's blood-bathes, eating Fairy food or the flesh of mermaids (Japanese folklore), etc). So if that's the case with Serenei, then when GRRM said that "she was much older than the king", what he meant by that is that she REALLY was MUCH older than Aegon, for example - 20 years older, same as Aegon's own mother - Larra Rogare.

On her portrait in TWOIAF, Serenei looks like a woman aged ~35-45, though if my suspicions about her are correct, and that by the usage of blood magic she really stopped her aging, then there is a possibility that her actual age is way past the age she looks on that portrait. So even though she looks no older than 45, her actual age could be past 60. She could have been even 69 at the time of her death in 184 AC. Though the point is - no matter what her actual age was, her body just stopped aging past certain point in time, so physically/biologically she was "eternally 35-45". And that age is still within a range of a child-bearing years. For example - Alyssa Velaryon gave birth to her daughter - Jocelyn Baratheon, when she was 47 years old.

Though, casting my speculations aside (about what the actual meaning of "preserved her beauty by the practice of dark arts" is), in that list from Wikipedia there are several women that gave birth to their children when aged past 52, and that's without usage of any modern methods to assist conception. For example - a woman that gave birth in 1887, when she was 62 years and 6 months old, to a TRIPLETS. A 59 years old woman that gave birth in 1819, her previous child was born 35 years before this one. A woman that throughout 1960-70th gave birth when she was aged 52, 55 and 57 years old. A woman that gave birth to her FIRST child when she was 55 years old. In 1847 a woman that gave birth to her child three days prior to her 55th birthday. In total in that list there are 14 women that gave birth when they were aged between 53 and 62,5 years.

So it is just an assumption, that in ASOIAF a woman couldn't have given birth, when aged past 52. That assumption is based on - "a woman's fertile cycle (menopause) occurs at an age of 49-52 on average". On AVERAGE! But there ARE special cases in the real world that extend past that limit of 52. The way that rule #5 is written in the Wikia - that this - "the end of a woman's fertile cycle (menopause) occurs at an age of 49-52 on average" is supposedly = this - "giving ~52 as a maximum age for giving birth to a child", is a wrong conclusion. Women CAN give birth past being aged 52, that's a FACT, there are 14 of those facts recorded in Wikipedia, so it's a false/wrong statement that "Serenei was no older than ~52 years old at the birth of her child, Shiera Seastar,^[111]" The range of the possible years of Serenei's birth - that she couldn't have been born earlier than in 126 AC - is based on the assumption that she couldn't have been older than 52 at the time of Shiera's birth in 178-184. And that's wrong. She could have been past 52 at the time of Shiera's birth, and thus she could have been born earlier than in 126.

Personally I believe that she was born in 115 AC. And I can believe in whatever I want, because I am just me. But the Wikia shouldn't insert into the characters' bio a faulty info, because those who read it, and perceive it as factual, are becoming misguided.

P.S. I apologize if my ramblings insulted anyone. I actually appreciate all the work that is done by the contributors to the ASOIAF-Wikia.

Though, what I don't appreciate, is being mocked based on a reason that my theories and ideas are going against the data presented in the Wikia (mostly factual, but in some rare cases a faulty source of info).

[Willam Stark]

4 hours ago, Megorova said:

Personally I believe that she was born in 115 AC.

Are we going back to the Larra=Serenei thing again? Don't play dumb with me, we both know what you mean by this year of birth.

Did you really think you could change anything by fleeing your own topic and bringing this up here? It won't work, sorry.

4 hours ago, Megorova said:

And I can believe in whatever I want, because I am just me.

Nobody said otherwise, stop acting like a child.

4 hours ago, Megorova said:

Though, what I don't appreciate, is being mocked based on a reason that my theories and ideas are going against the data presented in the Wikia (mostly factual, but in some rare cases a faulty source of info).

Nope, you are just overreacting because you can't handle contradiction.

 

[StarksInTheNorth]

19 hours ago, Megorova said:

This is NOT a theory (or at least not a theory in a conventional sense of this word), I just thought that I should share this info.

There’s a whole thread for establishing ages and a whole sub forum for discussing the wiki. If you disagree with the rules and want to change them, bring it up there, not here.

You’re not likely to win that fight, but feel free to try.

And as for the Sirenei = Larra theory, @Willam Stark has correctly pointed out that it was already debunked by the person who knows the most about ASOIAF besides GRRM, to the point that he’s fact-checked the novels and IS THE AUTHOR OF A CANON BOOK. 

[Megorova]

On 11/5/2021 at 12:25 AM, Willam Stark said:

Did you really think you could change anything by fleeing your own topic and bringing this up here? It won't work, sorry.

I haven't run from my own topic, I haven't forgotten that I wrote there that I will explain the basis for that theory. It's just that I was too busy in the past few days. I'll post my answer there in SS16, soon. Though I'm warning you - that post will be looooooooooooong. Brace yourself.

On 11/5/2021 at 12:25 AM, Willam Stark said:

On 11/4/2021 at 7:52 PM, Megorova said:

what I don't appreciate, is being mocked

Nope, you are just overreacting because you can't handle contradiction.

I didn't meant you or the others with whom I was discussing that or other topics in a recent theads. I'm still conversing with you and them, despite your disregard of nearly everything I write, because you stay civil, unlike some other people who disagreed with me and then wrote in their posts - "dumbshit", "pile of nonesense", "what are you smoking?", "idiot"; or much worse wordings and then just edited/erased those things from their posts, before I reported on any of them. Isn't THAT mocking? Good thing that those people are already gone, not GONE gone - dead, just left the forum.

P.S. I was gone for a day or two, and when I came back - the forum is suddenly purple, and there are stars everywhere. Is it just me, or to you it is also purple?

On 11/5/2021 at 3:21 PM, StarksInTheNorth said:

And as for the Sirenei = Larra theory, @Willam Stark has correctly pointed out that it was already debunked by the person who knows the most about ASOIAF besides GRRM

Concerning THAT - read P.S. section of my next post in SS16.

[Jaenara Belarys]

15 minutes ago, Megorova said:

P.S. I was gone for a day or two, and when I came back - the forum is suddenly purple, and there are stars everywhere. Is it just me, or to you it is also purple?

On 11/5/2021 at 6:21 AM, StarksInTheNorth said:

It's an update. And it's purple for me as well. 

16 minutes ago, Megorova said:

Concerning THAT - read P.S. section of my next post in SS16.

There is no argument that you can produce that can go against Ran, who literally stated that they are not the same people. Considering he worked with GRRM himself, I don't see why you insist on staying on the Serenei=Larra stuff. A hairline isn't all that much evidence either. And again, Ran conferred with GRRM and the art person (something with an M and a V). 

[Megorova]

44 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

There is no argument that you can produce that can go against Ran

You're underestimating me. I SO can.

45 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

And again, Ran conferred with GRRM and the art person (something with an M and a V). 

Magali Villeneuve, she's a French illustrator, freelance fantasy artist, and fantasy author - according to Wikipedia.

[Jaenara Belarys]

Just now, Megorova said:

You're underestimating me. I SO can.

48 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

He's worked with the author and he was, as @StarksInTheNorth put it is the author of the canon book that you base quite a lot of evidence upon.....he's stated bluntly that they aren't the same. 

2 minutes ago, Megorova said:

Magali Villeneuve, she's a French illustrator, freelance fantasy artist, and fantasy author - according to Wikipedia.

Thanks. 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

Epileptic Trees, indeed. I found these interesting. No further comment.

[Angel Eyes]

Is it possible that Tyene Sand is the granddaughter of Alys Arryn, the unnamed one who was scarred from the pox and became a septa? Tyene's physical appearance (blonde hair, blue eyes) is noted as being unusual for the Dornish, and Harry Hardyng, the current heir to House Arryn, is described as looking like Jon Arryn in his youth.

Edited June 22, 2022 by Angel Eyes

[Daeron the Daring]

On 6/15/2022 at 11:50 PM, Angel Eyes said:

Is it possible that Tyene Sand is the daughter of Alys Arryn, the unnamed one who was scarred from the pox and became a septa? Tyene's physical appearance (blonde hair, blue eyes) is noted as being unusual for the Dornish, and Harry Hardyng, the current heir to House Arryn, is described as looking like Jon Arryn in his youth.

You mean Tyene Sand is the granddaughter of Alys Arryn? Cause Alys Arryn had a daughter that became a septa, and that septa could be the mother of Tyene. Alys not so much.

But I like the idea, if that's what you tought about? Weren't the Arryns geberally blondes anyway, or is that something I picked up from a game? (CK2's AGOT mod, I can only reccomend it, thou a new version is coming as well)