red snow Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 It's usually the characters for me that sell it. Did you read all of Dragon's path? It's just your comments sound like something I may have said after the first 150 pages. The 13 races do feel like a wasted opportunity in terms of going into depth about them but I get the impression despite sounding incredibly different to us they were treat like ethnic groups in "civilized" parts of our world. Sure, there's a bit of racism here and there most people see past it. Whereas I'd usually expect a fantasy book with 13 races to spend most of it's time concentrating on their differences and political factions, etc. So I can see how it looks like a missed opportunity. I think Geder's first "reveal" was what made me stand back and think "ok, there's more to this than what I think". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevasTra82 Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 2 hours ago, red snow said: It's usually the characters for me that sell it. Did you read all of Dragon's path? It's just your comments sound like something I may have said after the first 150 pages. The 13 races do feel like a wasted opportunity in terms of going into depth about them but I get the impression despite sounding incredibly different to us they were treat like ethnic groups in "civilized" parts of our world. Sure, there's a bit of racism here and there most people see past it. Whereas I'd usually expect a fantasy book with 13 races to spend most of it's time concentrating on their differences and political factions, etc. So I can see how it looks like a missed opportunity. I think Geder's first "reveal" was what made me stand back and think "ok, there's more to this than what I think". Honestly, I think a lot of it was just simply DA's writing style. It just didn't mesh well with my brain...it was really hard for me to read it. And because of that, everything just seemed flat and boring, making it very hard to get vested into the story. It's not necessarily an issue with DA himself per-say, it's just preference. I read quite a few reviews on Goodreads and the other people that didn't like the novel also said something similar. I had the exact same issue with Steven Erikson. I attempted to read GARDENS OF THE MOON after hearing so much about it, but I just couldn't get into it. (There where other reasons I couldn't get into it, but i'll leave that for another thread). I guess our brains are all just wired differently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illrede Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 23 hours ago, Rhom said: I don't remember that. I just remember the first D&C thread. Either way, its a week out. I'll see what others want to do. Sadly, Abraham's work doesn't get near the play here that I think it truly deserves. Might have been The Tyrant's Law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 For me, The Dragon's Path was the weakest in the series thus far. It takes a while to get going but somewhere towards the midpoint of the book, the plot threads start coming together and the book becomes really good. The book also starts out with a number of genre cliches but as it progresses the subtle subversion of these stereotypes becomes evident. I'm glad I stuck with it especially since The King's Blood surpasses The Dragon's Path on just about every level - prose, characterisation, world building. On 2016/02/26 at 2:08 PM, Rhom said: So, in a few days when the legit release hits, should I edit the topic to go through Spider's War just to keep all D&C discussion consolidated? This thread is only on page 12 so it would be a waste to start another one. Think it would be best to edit the title for spoilers through to The Spider's War. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamjm Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 2 hours ago, Consigliere said: For me, The Dragon's Path was the weakest in the series thus far. It takes a while to get going but somewhere towards the midpoint of the book, the plot threads start coming together and the book becomes really good. The book also starts out with a number of genre cliches but as it progresses the subtle subversion of these stereotypes becomes evident. I'm glad I stuck with it especially since The King's Blood surpasses The Dragon's Path on just about every level - prose, characterisation, world building. While I still like The Dragon's Path, I would say that out of the 14 books I've read that Abraham has written or co-written it's probably my least favourite. There are still some bits in it I really liked but it took quite a while to get interesting. The 13 races do feel like a wasted opportunity in terms of going into depth about them but I get the impression despite sounding incredibly different to us they were treat like ethnic groups in "civilized" parts of our world. Sure, there's a bit of racism here and there most people see past it. Whereas I'd usually expect a fantasy book with 13 races to spend most of it's time concentrating on their differences and political factions, etc. So I can see how it looks like a missed opportunity. The 13 races were one thing I thought was a bit weak in the first book where they mostly didn't play much of a role - perhaps because all of the POV characters are Firstborn apart from Cithrin and even she wasn't raised in Cinnae culture. I thought the later books did a better job of showing some of the other races, although I think several of the races are never going to play a significant role in the story, I don't think we've even met characters from all of them yet. Abraham obviously isn't intending to do an Adrian Tchaikovsky-style Grand Tour where we end up visiting every corner of the map and meeting a multitude of races. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 Well you could always start an Abraham and Women thread. (I'm joking, for the love of poop, please don't). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 19 minutes ago, williamjm said: I don't think we've even met characters from all of them yet. Abraham obviously isn't intending to do an Adrian Tchaikovsky-style Grand Tour where we end up visiting every corner of the map and meeting a multitude of races. I think Tchaikovsky is partly to blame for setting my expectations of such things as I'd been reading him for a while by the time i got to D&C. Then again Tchaikovsky came up with a really clever shorthand (especially by the later books where I stopped thinking of the races as being anthropomorphic insects). I really need to try some of his non "apt" books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted March 2, 2016 Author Share Posted March 2, 2016 4 hours ago, Darth Richard II said: Well you could always start an Abraham and Women thread. (I'm joking, for the love of poop, please don't). Well... At least if he said Cithrin was the most important character in the book, I'd believe him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Well, logically, it would probably be a boring thread. But I've found threads like that then to attract, well, to be blunt, crazy people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 10 hours ago, Rhom said: Well... At least if he said Cithrin was the most important character in the book, I'd believe him! It's a minor quibble but my ecopy of The Widow's house was rife with typos We could also get outraged about the treatment of the drowned. I'm sure we can treat it as allegory for something. 10 hours ago, Darth Richard II said: Well, logically, it would probably be a boring thread. But I've found threads like that then to attract, well, to be blunt, crazy people. It's a bit like a thread going on about how great Abraham is would be equally dull. We sort of do it here but it's moderate. It's on another page making quoting an effort but the poster who said we need a thread on "what order should I read, Abraham in" got a giggle out of me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howdyphillip Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 It has been well over a year since I finished Widow's House. Does anyone know where I can find a decent plot synopsis of the series to read before I start Spider's War next week? I really would like to refresh my memory without going back over four books this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 8 hours ago, Howdyphillip said: It has been well over a year since I finished Widow's House. Does anyone know where I can find a decent plot synopsis of the series to read before I start Spider's War next week? I really would like to refresh my memory without going back over four books this week. I just finished Widow's house so could give you highlights for that but somewhat hazy on the rest. This seems ok in terms of summary. Not sure they've done the whole series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karaddin Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 On 2/3/2016 at 0:08 AM, red snow said: We could also get outraged about the treatment of the drowned. I'm sure we can treat it as allegory for something. I'm pretty convinced something of significance is going to happen with them in Spider's War so even this might be jumping the gun On D&C not doing anything unique with the cliches it's employing, I couldn't disagree more. It's not a hardcore take down of the tropes like the Esteemed Lord Grimdark has penned, but it's most definitely subverting a whole bunch of them - see: the description of Dawson earlier. He doesn't play out that way in any other book I've read, he's either the noble hero upholding the right and true king, or he's the evil nobleman holding back progress. Here he's sympathetic, you can understand his perspective, while also being quite the regressive ass. And that's just Dawson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 7 hours ago, karaddin said: I'm pretty convinced something of significance is going to happen with them in Spider's War so even this might be jumping the gun Yeah, they were starting to swim around and follow Inys in the last book so I think they will yet play a part. The ocean's a big place, there could be other things there eg a dragon. That and it would be a nice turn around if they had been window dressing the entire series and then become vital. Daniel had an interesting blog post a few years ago how he was really keen to avoid any of the races seeming like a particular real life stereotype. The Timzinae only really represent persecuted races in general as opposed to specific ones which I'm sure is intentional too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted March 8, 2016 Author Share Posted March 8, 2016 Went ahead and edited the topic title for tomorrow's release. My book isn't slated to ship for another week or so... Guess I will bow out for a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedEyedGhost Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 2 hours ago, Rhom said: Went ahead and edited the topic title for tomorrow's release. My book isn't slated to ship for another week or so... Guess I will bow out for a bit. Wow, where'd you order it from? My physical copy is slated to arrive tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGP Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 It just showed up in my Kindle. Turning the computer off now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted March 8, 2016 Author Share Posted March 8, 2016 7 hours ago, RedEyedGhost said: Wow, where'd you order it from? My physical copy is slated to arrive tomorrow. Amazon. No clue why the delay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt b Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 Just picked up my copy at B&N! They hadn't shelved it yet so I had to ask for help but they got it for me right away. Of course, I still have to finish Tyrant's Law and start on the Widow's House to complete my reread before I crack this one open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedEyedGhost Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 5 hours ago, Rhom said: Amazon. No clue why the delay. Weird. That's where mine is coming from. Maybe it will still show up today, I've had that happen before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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