Hobbit Movie discussion II - Here be Spoilers

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Jasta,

We all loved the srubbing bubbles of death and Leoglas trunk surfing in RotK. I mean who didn't?

:P

[Jasta11]

Jasta,

We all loved the srubbing bubbles of death and Leoglas trunk surfing in RotK. I mean who didn't?

:P

Scrubbing bubbles?

[protar]

At least Legolas taking down the Mummakil had some degree of realism. Like Legolas is supposed to have some superhuman physical prowess so why can't he climb up an Elephant and take on a load of guys. But flying the bat? Why didn't the bat try to shake him off, how does he know where the bat is going?

[Slurktan]

I just don't get what changed in Jacksons methods. LotR made Weta Workshops, they were made simply because of the scale of practical effects required for the film. They used Miniatures as much as they possibly could, even when they did do digital creatures they were usually sculpted first then scanned in. Why did he decide to throw that all out of the window?

Presumably the same reason most effects houses do. It's much, much, much cheaper.

[Veltigar]

My friends and I were planning to see this movie tonight. We went to see the previous two movies in the theatre, we even payed extra for 3-D, hFR and all that other stuff. So, last week we were talking about going tonight and the conversation just fizzled out. That's when I came to a conclusion. Going to see the third hobbit felt like a choir.

I spent an awful lot of time in the theatre, always with the intent of being entertained, intellectually challenged or preferably both. So far, no Hobbit movie has offered me either of those. I have yet to rewatch either of the previous two installments. I just don't have the heart for it, which is a stark contrast with LOTR which I have rewatched many a times.

I also feel like the Hobbit movies have gotten worse with each installments. Like the first was overlong, boring and mediocre but at least it had some good moments (e.g. the Dwarves singing). The second one was just a calamity. I can't even imagine how dreadful the third one is going to be. Peter Jackson has made a good trilogy, but my goodwill is just gone. King Kong, the Hobbit movies are proof that he's a mediocre director who lucked out once with LoTR.

[Mark Antony]

Wait Legolas rides a bat? :lol:

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Protar,

At least Legolas taking down the Mummakil had some degree of realism. Like Legolas is supposed to have some superhuman physical prowess so why can't he climb up an Elephant and take on a load of guys. But flying the bat? Why didn't the bat try to shake him off, how does he know where the bat is going?

Surfing an elephants trunk is believeable? Really?

Jasta,

The army of the dead that completely obviated the sacrifice of Theoden and the Rohirrim, AKA "the scrubbing bubbles of death".

[protar]

Protar,

Surfing an elephants trunk is believeable? Really?

Compared to the stuff he pulled off here sure.

[HexMachina]

Wait Legolas rides a bat? :lol:

I'm so pleased I am not the only one bothered by that statement enough to pick up on it.

With the movie being split where it was, I actually expected PJ would spend sone time expanding on the return journey of Bilbo. Am I correct in thinking this is not the case?

Also, are reasons ever given why PJ decided to cut scenes like Thrain in Dol Guldur from the theatrical release? Surely it would fit much better than other scenes that were included? I really want to know why such scenes were omitted.

[Corvinus85]

I'm so pleased I am not the only one bothered by that statement enough to pick up on it.

With the movie being split where it was, I actually expected PJ would spend sone time expanding on the return journey of Bilbo. Am I correct in thinking this is not the case?

Also, are reasons ever given why PJ decided to cut scenes like Thrain in Dol Guldur from the theatrical release? Surely it would fit much better than other scenes that were included? I really want to know why such scenes were omitted.

The only reason I can think of is because PJ kills off Thrain in a particularly jarring way. In fact, watching that scene unfold from the moment Azog attacks Gandalf until his confrontation with Sauron, I could see that they had written themselves in a corner on what to do with Thrain.

And yes, you are correct that PJ did not expand on Bilbo's journey back home. And maybe that's why it was good. I can just imagine a scene where Gandalf and Bilbo are chased all the way to the Misty Mountains by one of those Dune sandworms. :P

[protar]

The Sand Worms are another thing that really annoyed me. Like wouldn't they have been really good in the battle? They where a nice nod to one of the more obscure parts of Tolkien's mythology though - the Were-worms who are mentioned once in (I believe) the Hobbit and never bought up again.

[Arataniello]

When we see Bilbo saying goodbye to Gandalf, he is wearing some sort of weird poncho, pinned with a noticeable brooch, as well as carrying a singular shield. I am guessing these could point to some sort of "adventure" on his way back to The Shire. he is not wearing them when he takes his leave of the Dwarves outside Erebor. I guess they could be from Dale; they are clearly not Elven in design.

Furthermore, Bilbo has one of Beorn's chessmen in one of the chests at Bag End at the start of AUJ. This also implies that he stayed with Beorn again - unless we are supposed to think Beorn gave the chessman to Bilbo offscreen on the way TO Erebor in DoS.

Who the hell gives away a single chess piece from a set anyway?

So all in all some bad editing of the end of the final movie I think. A real pity they did not have a scene with Balin and Gandalf visiting Bilbo at Bag End.

[The BlackBear]

The saddest thing for me is that we know Oin, Ori and Balin all go on to die in Moria.

[Veltigar]

I have no idea who Oin and Ori are supposed to be in these movies, so that doesn't bother me one bit :p

[Jasta11]

Protar,

Surfing an elephants trunk is believeable? Really?

Jasta,

The army of the dead that completely obviated the sacrifice of Theoden and the Rohirrim, AKA "the scrubbing bubbles of death".

I guess. The Rohirrim did stop the Orcs from just overwhelming Minas Tirith before the Dead effortlessly mopped them up, so it's not that big a deal. Plus, they killed the Witch-King.

[Shryke]

I just don't get what changed in Jacksons methods. LotR made Weta Workshops, they were made simply because of the scale of practical effects required for the film. They used Miniatures as much as they possibly could, even when they did do digital creatures they were usually sculpted first then scanned in. Why did he decide to throw that all out of the window?

Difficult to say really.

Part of it, I think, is just a lack of passion for the project. It really sounds like he did it at least in part out of obligation. The studio was gonna have someone do it an he would rather it was someone he could select (del Toro originally) or eventually himself.

But I think even that doesn't cover the obvious deterioration in quality. It's also apparently been really rushed through post-production to meet the release schedule.

[Calibandar]

I'm so pleased I am not the only one bothered by that statement enough to pick up on it.

With the movie being split where it was, I actually expected PJ would spend sone time expanding on the return journey of Bilbo. Am I correct in thinking this is not the case?

Also, are reasons ever given why PJ decided to cut scenes like Thrain in Dol Guldur from the theatrical release? Surely it would fit much better than other scenes that were included? I really want to know why such scenes were omitted.

Thrain being cut was a surprise, because all of us who followed the production closely, had seen at various times that several scenes were shot. Why he was cut and moved to the EE we do not know, but it is certainly clear that many scenes which we would expect to see, have been moved to the EE, especially with Five Armies. I think a regular audience would be quite interested to know that Thorin has a living father, who loves him, wants to speak with him, and who has been held captive for a lifetime. It was by far the best additional scene in the DoS EE.

One thing that is clear is that there is a subplot going on about the Dwarf Ring and the fact that Sauron obtained it from Thrain. That has all bee EE material so far, also in film 1's EE. According to Boyens the scrpt writer ( responsible for the Galadriel mishap in BoFA and who went on record this week as saying that she just loved Alfrid and thinks he is one of their best characters overall) , we will see more of the Three Elven Rings in the EE as well. So there is more to be seen here.

And yes, one of many silly Legolas scenes is his ride atop a bat, quite lengthy actually. He kills it when he doesn't need it anymore.

But no, the 3 film structure was not used to expand upon Bilbo's home journey. Like yourself I was really hoping that would be the case. I always thought this was a rich part of the book, but they were in an enormous rush towards the end of the film. This should by no means have been the shortest film, having saved up all the interesting stuff until film 3.

Unfortunately the return journey is very brief, much shorter than I thought it would be even for the theatrical version.

[Talleyrand]

I enjoyed it. It wasn't great but it was fun to watch. Though Alfred was pointless, the sandworms made no goddamn sense and Legolas needs to stop having God of War-like quick time events to solve his problems.

Dain was great though

EDIT: The fact that Alfred probably got more time and lines than Dain, Beorn and half the company combined is bloody criminal though

[The BlackBear]

One thing that is clear is that there is a subplot going on about the Dwarf Ring and the fact that Sauron obtained it from Thrain.

Seeing how Sauron made it, surely he doesn't need to 'obtain' it from anyone.

I would have liked more about the rings as, up till now the elf rings (didn't do anything) the Dwarf rings (just kind of made them greedy) only the human and one ring did anything.

But more rings would have been nice, especially as they actually paid more attention to the nine rings/Nasgul than they did in the LotR.

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

One rather strong complaint I had that nobody seems to have mentioned yet (or maybe I just missed it) is what happened to the Arkenstone. Bard puts it in his pocket after talking to Thorin at the gate, and then everybody fucking forgets about it and it's never seen again. What the fuck was that? This is the thing they've been banging on about for three films and there's no resolution to it. I imagine that it's in the EE, but why of all things is that cut and instead we have Legolas defying gravity again?

Wow I hate this movie the more I think about it.

On the positive side, I liked Martin Freeman as Bilbo; he nailed it.

I also liked the dwarves and their shield wall at the start of the battle with the elves leaping over.