Walking Dead Season 5 (No Comic Spoilers) Part 4

[Ken Stone]

I was a little confused by Michonne. Did she KO rick because she was a sheriff and at that moment he was a threat and she disagrees with him? Or did she do it because she didn't want the Alexandrians to kick them out, even though she agrees with Rick?

[S John]

I think she was just trying to diffuse the situation. Rick waving the gun around at the end made him look like a psycho, and Rick is a guy who in the heat of the moment has bitten someones throat out. Never know what he might do when he's all riled up like that. I think Michonne figured she had to knock him out because whether she agreed with him or not, the situation had to be de-escalated.

[Larry of the Lawn]

I think she was just trying to diffuse the situation. Rick waving the gun around at the end made him look like a psycho, and Rick is a guy who in the heat of the moment has bitten someones throat out. Never know what he might do when he's all riled up like that. I think Michonne figured she had to knock him out because whether she agreed with him or not, the situation had to be de-escalated.

Yeah that situation was only going to get worse and worse with the unhinged Riktator conscious.

[Mother of Dragons]

I wonder if the woman was tied to the tree for punishment or to distract walkers? Or just because the W gang likes to torture people? I have a feeling we'll just have more questions after the finale.

The Alexandrians don't tie ppl to trees per se, but they do run and leave their own as "walker bait". Maybe it's not unusual, and Rick's group is.

[First of My Name]

I agree that this is an odd episode as penultimate. Both in what it portrays and the way it portrays it. It was a good episode but some things felt off. (Things are coming to a head in Alexandria, but we spend half the episode in the forest. There was a lot of Sasha but she wasn't really treading any new ground). I liked Michonne's actions in the Woods but I feel it conflicts with her stopping Rick from fighting (though I think she was right to stop him, pulling a gun on Deanna wasn't his greatest idea). I like the parallels between Rick and Shane.

Also, did Rick hit Carl during the fight? Way to differentiate yourself from your enemy.

They did a good job evening the story out with different storylines, but I'm surprised Gabriel was absent. He's in the preview for the finale though. I'm curious how everything will turn out but I'm fairly sure Rick will not be in Alexandria anymore when the dust has settled. They're gonna need those 90 minutes because there's a lot of unresolved shit going on (not the least are the Ws. I think they might save that plotline for next season).

And I was convinced that Enid would try to get back into Alexandria using those poles, and Sasha would shoot her. I think it would've been a good twist, but well.

[Free Northman Reborn]

Well, Rick's character assassination is complete.

And done in such a hamfisted way. Totally ridiculous. He can die now. They've succeeded in making him unlikeable. Well done, dickwads.

Oh, and Rick STILL can't fight. That would be cool, if he didn't walk around acting as if he can. If you were a gunfigther in the Old West, you didn't walk around challenging guys bigger than you to fistfights. Similarly, it is unrealistic to expect Rick to be Wild Bill Hickock and Jean Claude van Damme. It is totally cool that he is Wild Bill Hickock only. But then he should be doing everything he can to avoid fights that don't involve a shootout. Else he is just stupid, and not much of a survivor. As it turns out, he gets the shit beaten out of him in pretty much every fight he engages in. What a joker.

Anyway, I don't care anymore, because he has become a Dickturd.

[Mother of Dragons]

Well in one of the sneak peeks on YouTube (might be from AMC site), there is a zombie that looks like Pete, so when Glen asks Rick "if he wanted this", it could mean Pete's death, or else he could be talking to him the way a parent would speak to a disobedient child: "is this what you wanted?!".

Did they kill off more characters than usual this season? It seemed that way to me. So maybe we can hope they'll be safe on Sunday! We see Glenn crying, but I feel Maggie is OK, she's the voice of reason in the group. Glenn could be frustrated about the situation and upset with Rick. Maybe Rick's behavior inadvertently leaves everyone worse off than Rick thought and the wolves destroy them. Carol- why bring her back to kill her. No reasons for Darryl other than he's probably one of the most useful people they have.

Maybe a new person like Abraham, Eugene (after he finds his courage), or Rosita.

Unfortunately, I have a feeling Gabriel will be safe, or at least if he's exiled, we'll have to wait until next season to watch him get eaten by walkers :(

[Dr. Pepper]

I wonder if the woman was tied to the tree for punishment or to distract walkers? Or just because the W gang likes to torture people? I have a feeling we'll just have more questions after the finale.

The Alexandrians don't tie ppl to trees per se, but they do run and leave their own as "walker bait". Maybe it's not unusual, and Rick's group is.

I think these wolves (assuming "w" people are the wolves) have to be really terrible, the worst group of people we've seen so far. They are almost like locusts, except more sadistic. They kill off entire communities, going so far as to make the shelter uninhabitable by setting fire. They dismember zombies for no apparent reason. They scar people for an unknown reason. Tie women naked to trees. All of this seems a whole lot more than just distracting walkers and/or basic punishment. It's almost like joyful torture.

[Mother of Dragons]

I think these wolves (assuming "w" people are the wolves) have to be really terrible, the worst group of people we've seen so far. They are almost like locusts, except more sadistic. They kill off entire communities, going so far as to make the shelter uninhabitable by setting fire. They dismember zombies for no apparent reason. They scar people for an unknown reason. Tie women naked to trees. All of this seems a whole lot more than just distracting walkers and/or basic punishment. It's almost like joyful torture.

I agree. It'll be season 6, and the writers need to keep coming up with more deplorable situations to keep the series going. I just hope they don't run out of ideas too soon.

[Dr. Pepper]

Are the houses near the Alexandria fence also burnt out?

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

Well, Rick's character assassination is complete.

And done in such a hamfisted way. Totally ridiculous. He can die now. They've succeeded in making him unlikeable. Well done, dickwads.

Oh, and Rick STILL can't fight. That would be cool, if he didn't walk around acting as if he can. If you were a gunfigther in the Old West, you didn't walk around challenging guys bigger than you to fistfights. Similarly, it is unrealistic to expect Rick to be Wild Bill Hickock and Jean Claude van Damme. It is totally cool that he is Wild Bill Hickock only. But then he should be doing everything he can to avoid fights that don't involve a shootout. Else he is just stupid, and not much of a survivor. As it turns out, he gets the shit beaten out of him in pretty much every fight he engages in. What a joker.

Anyway, I don't care anymore, because he has become a Dickturd.

I agree with you that they've made Rick thoroughly unlikable at this point. Can't say I care for that much.

Can't say I agree with the second part though. Size does mean something in a fight, but this guy is a surgeon who has been living soft for a fairly extended period of time. Rick should curb stomp him, unless he gets cold-cocked or otherwise cheap shotted. (Still haven't seen the ep, so I don't know how the fight goes down)

[dbunting]

I agree with most people that the episode seemed incomplete.

Carl / Enid, "scared" translates into scared I have feelings toward you, not worried you will kill me. This is likely the first time in their lives that they have been safe enough and around someone their age to get those feelings, and scared is their way to describe it.

Rick Rick Rick. Supposed to be better than that kind of violence. Michonne did what had to be done. As to Rick's fighting skills, IT IS A SHOW, NOT REAL! As someone else said, he isn't Superman, he is human and falable. Also, please remember who he is always fighting. Always a larger person, it's not like Dale and Herschel are slapping Rick around.

I don't get how that coward found Rick's gun. I would swear that he was at the gate when they arrived, so no way he would know it was there. I also don't buy that he just found it looking for a pasta maker. They would have searched that place multiple times by now and would know what is there already. Maybe he wasn't there and he was out scouting and he and Deanna's son saw Rick hide it, but if so, wouldn't they tell her and give it to her instead of hiding it? My fear is that he is going to use it in the next episode and the person he is at odds with is Glenn...so Glenn or Maggie next episode? Remember the one rule of Walking Dead, if you are the moral compass your death clock is ticking faster.

[TrackerNeil]

I think she was just trying to diffuse the situation. Rick waving the gun around at the end made him look like a psycho, and Rick is a guy who in the heat of the moment has bitten someones throat out. Never know what he might do when he's all riled up like that. I think Michonne figured she had to knock him out because whether she agreed with him or not, the situation had to be de-escalated.

I think Rick's come a long way, because at least now he's pulling guns on people who actually exist. That's got to count for something.

[Dronuspk]

How is Rick "thoroughly unlikable" ? I'm having a hard time understanding why this is the popular opinion now. He was completely in the right, the piece of shit was beating his wife. He tried going about it peacefully and the guy attacked him. Rick even said "You need to stop now" after the first punch!

He had the right idea, just poor execution because of emotion.

[Free Northman Reborn]

Rick really is a rather mentally fragile person for a leader in such a setting. I imagine any number of squad leaders in Vietnam or World War 2 etc faced daily death and horror on a similar scale, and yet if every leader went batshit crazy due to their experiences there would be chaos.

Rick already has gone batshit crazy. They did that whole plotline back in Season 3. Now he is going for a second crazy medal in Season 5.

If you're looking for a leader to help you survive the apocalypse, a super sensitive mentally fragile guy like Rick Grimes is really not the right choice.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

How is Rick "thoroughly unlikable" ? I'm having a hard time understanding why this is the popular opinion now. He was completely in the right, the piece of shit was beating his wife. He tried going about it peacefully and the guy attacked him. Rick even said "You need to stop now" after the first punch!

He had the right idea, just poor execution because of emotion.

Okay. "thoroughly unlikable" may have been a bit strong. Perhaps "somewhat less than likable" would be more fair. Kissing someone else's wife, stating that maybe they should just take the community for their own, suggesting that the surgeon needs killing, and then waving a gun around at a crowd that is trying to break up an irrational fight...

He's not as far off the reservation as Carol is at this point, but he's a close second.

[Lord Syv Aldlark]

Rick is only insane to us because we've never lived in that world; and seemingly insane to the Alexandrians because they also have really never lived in that world.

Even comparing the others doesn't count in a sense; Rick has been the leader for most of the time with his farming days being a slight separation from that. As the leader he has felt every death, felt every sacrifice. Rick is only unhinged if you look at from the standpoint of outside that world.

Shane, The Governor, The Termites, The Claimers. The Hospital.

Each of these events have taken more and more out of what was his human side. Hope has been severely crushed in him.

It is a dog eat dog world in the Walking Dead world. There isn't any middle ground anymore.

Andddd that's what the writers are doing beautifully. Alexandria is us for lack of a better term. We live in Alexandria, everything is relatively safe, everyone gets a long, there's no violence... So now that we have that contrast to Rick we're taking a step back and going wait.. wait.. wait.. what happened to farmer Rick? It's just how Rick was a contrast to Shane; yet I don't yet see their characters as lined up as it seems, The speech was Shanish; but in this world Shane was right.

What everyone seems to be forgetting is that Deanna flat out said that they knew about Pete abusing Jessie. They sacrificed that situation because Pete is a doctor. They allowed Pete to abuse Jesse. To me that makes them on par with Rick; they let something happens because the thing happening helps the community. I mean that is on the forefront of Rick's mind and he still tries to resist a fight with Pete. He didn't go in there guns blazing, he went in there and said Pete come with me. Sure we may not know what he was going to do with Pete but he didn't start the fight.

His gun drawn was his PTSD coming out. He's been in a world of threat for so long that it was the appropriate response; even more so when the discussion with Deanna speaking of letting the abuse continue. Or even hinting at it.

Also remember the Roamers have only been in Alexandria for about a week now, maybe less. There is still an unknown about Alexandria even if it hasn't been hinted at in the last two episodes.

I mean honestly are the Alexandrians that much better?

1. There seems to be a general policy of let people die so not to harm others.

2. Let Pete abuse his wife because he's saved a lot of people.

3. If the above is true; what did the 3 exiled people do? Or were they simply not valuable enough to allow them to stay?

That's what I am pondering at the end of the episode; because I knew Rick's snap was coming; just like Michonne, Rosita and Sasha had their moment in the woods and I would even call Abraham's medieval zombie fight a very similar situation. If the abuse of Jessie was justifiable because of Pete's doctoring abilities then what happened with the 3 exiled folks to be exiled?

Also if Rick was Shane, we know how fast Rick can draw his gun and shoot accurately; he would have shot Pete as soon as he was struck or maybe even sooner. Rick actually showed more restraint than i expected him to though once they went through the glass I think survival instinct took over. Thus why he pushed Carl away. At that point it wasn't our world anymore; it was back into the survival world and to him Pete was any of the enemies he faced.

... Rick biting the Claimers throat out after the Claimers had them at gun point and told Rick he was going to rape Carl.. How is that insane in that world at all? It was his only option and his best option at that moment and he took it. That's the same mindset we see with the Termites later on as well.

Eh I feel i typed enough

[Free Northman Reborn]

I've never read the comics, but based on the Show, it would seem that Rick is supposed to be seen as this revered leader of our group. As if that is a default position that is just a natural one.

But in truth, if "natural born leader Rick" is how he is intended to be seen in the comics, I'm afraid the Show has done a poor job of translating that onto TV. Sure, everyone keeps telling us "the world needs Rick Grimes", and "Rick will know what to do", "Rick will protect us" etc etc, but I still don't really know why he is the leader, and what makes him so great.

He is incredibly indecisive in the early Seasons, and when he finally rectifies that problem, he becomes emotionally unstable in later Seasons.

In truth, I am surprised the group gravitated to him as leader so naturally.

What you really need is a no-nonsense, level headed, military type like a Sam Elliott type ex-colonel in the US army or something as the leader of your group in such an apocalypse. Military law should be in place. Strict, but fair. And your leader should be someone with a cool head, above all else.

Loose canon Rick comes across as more and more of a softhearted civilized guy that got unhinged when he was forced to adapt to the realities of the zombie apocalypse. Now, there is room for guys like him in your group. But not as leader of your group.

Unless I'm missing something about some great quality of Rick's. I thought he was on his way to becoming this great leader, when he took down Dave and Tony in the bar. But after that Clint Eastwood took a back seat and "lost male cast member from Grey's Anatomy or ER" was dumped in the middle of the Apocalypse.

[Dronuspk]

Okay.

Rick is NOT unhinged, batshit crazy, out of control, etc. He is a leader. This world is war. Deanna is NOT a wartime leader.

He was pressured by Carol to end it, he was defended (initially in the house) by the wife. The guy hit him TWICE before he reacted. The guy, by the way, that beats his kid and wife. Another one of their group just died (Noah) because of an inexperienced Alexandrian. This was all flowing through his mind while fighting Pete. Now I'm not sure who here has been in a REAL fist fight, but emotions are very high during it.

Pulling the gun out was his mistake, though I don't think he was actually going to act upon it, that scared everyone, including Michonne. Rick had the RIGHT intentions and idea, but executed it poorly because of the fight. But I don't believe for a second he was in the wrong. Because he wasn't. Deanna is going to get every single one of them killed. And I think we're going to see some of that next episode.

[Free Northman Reborn]

Dronuspk

I'm not criticizing Rick because I think Deanna is right. Deanna is living in a fantasy land. She is not the benchmark for leadership in the Zombie Apocalypse.

But I think all these examples of ordinary people ending up as leaders in the Apocalypse are a bit ridiculous. The Governor was a pen pusher in an office. Rick is a sensitive soul who cannot handle the reality of the world gone to hell. Gareth from Terminus was hipster nerd-material.

Where are the ex-military men? The Seal Team 6 survivors? The backwoods survivalists in their fortified compounds, with massive ammo stashes and canned food to last 3 years? Where are the militias?

These are the guys that would emerge in this world. Not randomly left over normal guys that suddenly become Governors and Rick-types. Or rather, they would be there, but not last long.

It's not about aggression and psycho mentality such as the state of mind that Rick has ventured into. It is about being cool-headed, military focused, resolute and steadily in charge, like in a war zone.

For that, you need military men in charge.