Walking Dead Season 5 (No Comic Spoilers) Part 4

[Disturber of Peace]

A perpetuum zombile can be directed to do a pushing action by simple stimuli.

Fuck nuclear fusion.

[The Fallen]

Pete is an alcoholic couch potato. Rick is supposedly the alpha male of a hardened survivor group.

Yet after the fight he looks like he went 12 rounds with Mike Tyson.

Pete is a big guy who's been practicing on his wife. Okay, bad joke.

Free Northman, you sound like a guy who either grew up starting fights and was good at it or has never had a fight in his life. Even Iron Mike got his ass whooped. The fights on this show are pretty realistic. Rick isn't a bully, so he tends to hold back a little initially and/or he's needed help. Of course, Free Northman has never been bested. As a guy who grew up in the inner city alongside real street fighters, trust me, there's always a guy tougher than you.

Look, we know that Putin is your idea of how a leader should act and talk. And if he were in charge of a group in the apocalypse he would do well. But not so any humans who came in contact with him. Alexandria would be a mini USSR. If you were a part of his inner circle or pleased him you'd be fine. But if you think differently you'd disappear our be made an example of.

Now regarding Rick, he was a leader as a law enforcement officer. He got the group to Herschel's farm where they were safe. He got them to the prison, where they were safe. Terminus wasn't a Rick production, the group made their way there separately, and it was Rick who figured out pretty quickly what was going on. Unfortunately, they were outnumbered.

So, Rick isn't so insecure that he needs to beat his chest and play the tough guy role a la Putin and you're disappointed with him. I know the show is fiction, but it's based in the real world. This isn't Westeros.

[Dr. Pepper]

Pete is a big guy who's been practicing on his wife. Okay, bad joke.

Free Northman, you sound like a guy who either grew up starting fights and was good at it or has never had a fight in his life.

In a past thread FN went on and on about how ridiculous it was that Rick ever won a fight. I'm pretty sure FN has never been in a fight in his life.

[TrackerNeil]

Deanna and the group should have gotten rid of the alcohol or cut him off at a minimum, to see if that would help the situation. Seems like their way of dealing with everything is to look the other way and hope it gets better. Oh, you are getting beaten by your husband, eh ok, see you at the pot luck tomorrow! Oh damn, you fell down and a walker is coming toward you, see ya, hope you make it but if not, oh well.

Maybe, but they've kept the lights on and the walls up, and that says something for them. Honestly, what I have read in this thread often comes down to the idea that one must have "the warrior mindset" (I think Free Northman coined that term) to survive, and yet the Alexandrians have survived at least as long as the Ricklings. That doesn't mean Deanna's people are doing everything right, but surely it counts for something? Rick and Carol have been pleased to call them weak, but I think that's a very narrow and, frankly, short-sighted view of weakness. Is the guy who makes the warrior's boots weak? Or the one who makes his weapons? Isn't there a strength in working hard, too?

[dbunting]

^^^^^Tracker

Just because the lights are on doesn't mean they are doing ANYTHING right. Do you really believe that if the claimed gang had come along and happened upon Alexandria that they would still be alive? Or the Govenor? Either of those groups had found this place and Alevandrians are dead, period. Their entire survival thus far has been because no large group of baddies has found them. They even tell you this themselves. PEOPLE are our greatest resource and we need you. They need people because their system kills them off so frequently!

[Brandon Stark]

I blame the house. That's the house where Pete does all of his punching and where he benefits from creating awkward situations all day. So for him the fight was totally home field advantage. Plus he's bigger. And remember he's not "soft" vs. people, he's stayed mean towards people, it's only walkers he hasn't practiced fighting against. So it's not a total shocker that a bigger mean guy could take Rick to the mat after catching the constable off guard. And Pete was raging at the moment while Rick was practicing his calm act in order to get the wife onboard, so Rick had to shift gears suddenly without a plan. Pete was comfortable and punching at full force while the awkwardness worked against Rick who was wondering whether to act as a police officer or assassin.

I feel like the program is manipulating me to tune in again to see what happens next.

That's why domestic situations are so dangerous in real life. The people involved are always either at a higher level of intensity or prepared to escalate a lot faster than the officer involved. It's why, more than any other 'common,' call, waiting for backup at domestic calls is so heavily stressed in training.

I was so sure she'd say no after hearing that, after all her talk about being married. The storyline was dumb because they never show any real evidence of her being beaten. Whether cuts/bruises or her using make up to conceal it- more realistic. We just have Carol jumping to conclusions.

I believe he did, but the battered story line was poorly executed. Should have culminated more slowly, too. Maybe hear yelling at night.

Based on real-world examples that just means he's 'good,' at battering her without leaving readily-available physical evidence. Without going into detail, it's very common for abusers in situations where social stigma or close friends/family would bring a response if their abuse is discovered to focus mainly on hitting places where clothing covers.

I'm not sure how to take Rick right now. He needs to get his head straight before he can safely and reliably do the job they've tasked him with, but his basic ideas aren't necessarily wrong within the context in which he's developed them.

[Mother of Dragons]

That's why domestic situations are so dangerous in real life. The people involved are always either at a higher level of intensity or prepared to escalate a lot faster than the officer involved. It's why, more than any other 'common,' call, waiting for backup at domestic calls is so heavily stressed in training.

Based on real-world examples that just means he's 'good,' at battering her without leaving readily-available physical evidence. Without going into detail, it's very common for abusers in situations where social stigma or close friends/family would bring a response if their abuse is discovered to focus mainly on hitting places where clothing covers.

I'm not sure how to take Rick right now. He needs to get his head straight before he can safely and reliably do the job they've tasked him with, but his basic ideas aren't necessarily wrong within the context in which he's developed them.

Yes...Rick isn't ready for a relationship quite yet ;)

[TrackerNeil]

^^^^^Tracker

Just because the lights are on doesn't mean they are doing ANYTHING right. Do you really believe that if the claimed gang had come along and happened upon Alexandria that they would still be alive? Or the Govenor? Either of those groups had found this place and Alevandrians are dead, period. Their entire survival thus far has been because no large group of baddies has found them. They even tell you this themselves. PEOPLE are our greatest resource and we need you. They need people because their system kills them off so frequently!

So, then you seem to be saying that hard work does not matter. I guess that answers my question.

[Consigliere]

Of course the Alexandrians are doing some things right, not everything but some things. Afterall, they have managed to survive at least as long as any other group. They have been fortunate in that they did not come up against another group like the Claimed gang. Even if they did, it does not automatically mean that they would have all been killed. They could equally have turned into another version of the Termites, who initially started out with the intention of helping people.

The argument that Rick is useless at fighting is just plain silly. What is the expectation? That Rick pull out some awesome kung-fu moves?

[MisterOJ]

Of course the Alexandrians are doing some things right, not everything but some things. Afterall, they have managed to survive at least as long as any other group. They have been fortunate in that they did not come up against another group like the Claimed gang. Even if they did, it does not automatically mean that they would have all been killed. They could equally have turned into another version of the Termites, who initially started out with the intention of helping people.

The argument that Rick is useless at fighting is just plain silly. What is the expectation? That Rick pull out some awesome kung-fu moves?

The highlighted portion is the key. They Alexandria group has been extremely lucky to make it this far. They have not had to deal with anyone like the Governor or the Claimers or the Termites or, you know... massive herds of walkers.

I thought the show has done a pretty good job of highlighting this fact, but it appears it was too subtle for some to pick up on.

[The Mance]

Rick might be becoming more 'Shane-like' but he's not the same guy.

Yeah, the comparison falls apart when you look at the interpersonal dealings. Shane was sort of a dick, and his devotion to the group as a whole is hard to judge as it's clouded by his infatuation with Lori. But in terms of zombie apocalypse survival mentality, and the politics of strangers, they are much closer. Season 5 Rick would not have hesitated to kill Randall from 18 Miles Out, for example.

And as far as Otis, I don't know. It was really a last resort for Shane, and it did take an emotional toll on him after the fact, so I really don't know that Rick wouldn't make the same decision. A virtual stranger's life for his own when the alternative is certain death for both? And Shane did have opportunities to kill Dale, but even after he knew that Dale had seen him thinking about killing Rick he let him live.

Rick has also always had the advantage of being in charge, while Shane was living with the stress and frustration of being under the authority of someone he felt was an inadequate leader. Imagine current living Rick under the authority of someone like Dale or Tyreese.

I thought the show has done a pretty good job of highlighting this fact, but it appears it was too subtle for some to pick up on.

Have they addressed it at all? I remember Daryl saying something about "the luckiest people in the world" or something, but nothing besides that.

[Dr. Pepper]

Have they addressed it at all? I remember Daryl saying something about "the luckiest people in the world" or something, but nothing besides that.

I don't know that they've explicitly addressed it other than Deanna mentioning the fact that the entire DC area had been almost completely evacuated. But there is the fact that they just haven't run into other people. They have been able to systematically clean out supplies up to a50 miles from the community with most losses apparently being from zombies rather than other survivors. Plus, Aaron and Eric were having to go pretty far out to find people to help populate the camp.

I think this all shows they've been very fortunate so far. The pending arrival of the Wolves might be their first big test.

[First of My Name]

The CD was labelled 'Run Mix' so was likely what was in the van (and therefore one of the last things Aiden listened to before he died.) NIN was just the first track, it presumably also had the Knife Party track we got last episode.

Ah, okay. I thought it was something like that.

Despite the wording, the context of Jessie's question for Rick was focused on "will you admit you have feelings for me?" rather than "you would not interfere in domestic violence if I was not involved, right?".

And so Rick answered it accordingly.

That's how I took it as well.

Looking forward to the next episode to get things back on track and get some clarity on "W"

I think we'll have to wait a little longer than that to get answers, sadly. The finale seems busy enough without adding the Wolves into the mix, and nothing in the teaser suggested it. (But I might also be completely off).

So, then you seem to be saying that hard work does not matter. I guess that answers my question.

That's not what dbuting said at all.

[Free Northman Reborn]

So, with all said and done, the likely outcome is something like this:

Alexandria is split over Rick's actions, and a (supposedly dramatic, but in reality boring) debate, trial, election, or some such popularity contest is conducted to determine who has the right of it. I say this is boring, because the outcome doesn't matter, because the Alexandrites are powerless to enforce their will on our stronger group in any case. Hence, the only reason this trial will have any meaning is because the Showrunners want us to think it does. In reality, Rick said it himself. If they want Alexandria, they can just take it from this bunch. In any case, the trial will continue because drama.

Rick is shown to be initially pissed off at Michonne, but given the Show's treatment of Michonne as some kind of demi-goddess, she is inevitably proven right and Rick proven wrong.

The shamtrial ends with Deanna narrowly winning the debate, before a now crazy Pete rocks up and does something stupid, opening up the Alexandrites eyes to his evil nature. At the same time, some massive threat from outside forces them to release Rick from jail in order to protect them from the baddies outside the gates.

The Season climaxes with a massive conflict and maybe half of the Alexandrites wiped out before our team gets their guns and mightily smites the enemy via crowsbow, Katana blade and gunfire.

The remnant of broken Alexandria is left to pick up the pieces by making our group of now-saviors their new leaders.

Inbetween this, Nicholas brings Rick's hidden J-gun into play by causing some kind of tragedy, Daryl finds himself in mortal peril on his run, and most probably another beloved main character (or maybe two) bites the dust.

When the smoke clears, Rick is in charge, and hopefully Jessie is either dead, or Rick has lost his infatuation with her, because shacking up with the wife of the man you killed, and taking his kids for your own is just not right man. Even if convenience made it kind of work out neatly. It's just not right.

[The Mance]

I don't know that they've explicitly addressed it other than Deanna mentioning the fact that the entire DC area had been almost completely evacuated. But there is the fact that they just haven't run into other people.

I missed that. And its a good explanation too. I would expect some weird population concentrations after all the various evacuation orders and resettlement through safe-zones or refugee camps etc. So the last few people in a given area banded together probably wouldn't expect to see very many other random survivors.

We also haven't seen much evidence of wandering groups in general. Really just Rick's gang and the claimers have been on the move. At this stage most people have either settled into some sort of defensible community situation, or they're dead.

eta: And Abraham's group, duh.

[TrackerNeil]

The highlighted portion is the key. They Alexandria group has been extremely lucky to make it this far. They have not had to deal with anyone like the Governor or the Claimers or the Termites or, you know... massive herds of walkers.

And yet somehow they've managed to keep the power on, and the water clean, and their community secure. Some of that's luck, but some of it is good planning. Maybe that's too subtle for some, too.

[MisterOJ]

And yet somehow they've managed to keep the power on, and the water clean, and their community secure. Some of that's luck, but some of it is good planning. Maybe that's too subtle for some, too.

I thought most of that was attributed to the fact that they found a ready-made, self-sustaining community in which to set up? Deanna said as much in the first episode this year. The only thing we've been shown that they have done is put up a piss-poor wall, which has been fine against random small groups of walkers, but has never had to withstand a large herd or a hostile group of humans.

[Dr. Pepper]

And yet somehow they've managed to keep the power on, and the water clean, and their community secure. Some of that's luck, but some of it is good planning. Maybe that's too subtle for some, too.

What's not subtle is that this community had already been set up when they arrived. Equally not subtle is that this community hasn't been tested by outside threat. Might not be obvious enough to some.

[TrackerNeil]

All right, everyone. Defense stipulates that your coy implications that I am just not paying attention have been noted. I feel appropriately stupid about it, let's move on.

[awesome possum]

You're not lying. This show about zombies is apparently serious fucking business.