Walking Dead Season 5 (No Comic Spoilers) Part 4

[l2 0 5 5]

I find Rick likable.

That whole fight started because he wanted to help Jess out of an abusive relationship. Rick has seen plenty of men throughout the course of the show who exhibit power by abusing others while hiding behind the friendly good guy face. He isn't standing for it now; especially since Deanna put him in charge of enforcing law in Alexandria. Rick knows that half measures don't work for guys like Pete, and that's why he told Deanna how they have to deal with it. Deanna hasn't experienced guys like the Govenor and Gareth. This utopia she's living in is delusional. Aiden, Nicholas, Tobin, and Pete are scum, and they all had positions of power before Rick's crew got there. We saw last week just how deadly that can be when you have incompetent, and dangerous people leading others.

Does he seem to lose it once in a while? Sure, but it always seems to be for the better of the group.

[TrackerNeil]

In his defense he went into that conversation not knowing that Deanna was already aware of the Pete situation. That she did know, and was allowing it to happen, ratchets up the level of complication exponentially. She's gone from a naive but well-intentioned leader, to a complicit, abuse-enabling, bully, so fuck her and her incompetent son.

From what I saw, Deanna was doing what a leader does in tough circumstances: weighing evils and choosing the lesser. Pete, after all, is their only physician, and if they lose his cooperation they're in trouble. That doesn't mean he should be given carte blanche to do whatever he wants, but it certainly means the situation is not cut and dry.

That being said, I think there's a lot of space between allowing the abuse to continue and executing the abuser, as Rick suggested. Given enough time, one could probably come up with a solution that both stops the abuse and keeps the doctor, and it seems Deanna failed on that count. So I think one can reasonably criticize Deanna's decision, but to act as if she's a bully who likes to witness abuse is just silly.

Also, can we focus on the fact that Rick was calling for Deanna to institute the death penalty as a replacement for exile? That's an audacious request, if you ask me. I also find it amusing that, four weeks ago, the Alexandrians were condemned for harboring secret murderous intent, and now those same people are being scorned for not being murderous enough. It makes my head spin, it does.

[Katjushka]

I think that the reason why Rick's behavior has been so erratic and over the top (stupid) is simply because he and his group are used to living in constant danger, not having a wall around them and being attacked from left and right. They've been in survivor mode 100 %, no time or space for romances and relationship drama and now that they have a little security, a little more time to just hang around and not having to concentrate on just killing the walkers aroud them, he's freaking out over having those feelings again, freaking out over finding Jessie attractive. Rick obviously is a changed man, who wouldn't be in that world and after everything he's gone through? He's lived (living) in a world where you have to take what you want if you want to get it and where you have to dominate by physical power because asking nicely and waiting to see how things turn out haven't really been options anymore.

So yeah, I didn't like the fight my self but I see where the writers maybe meant that character to be coming from with his behavior. It's a new situation for him and he's not in anyway a flawless person or a "perfect" leader.

I don't think Rick's gonna kill Pete but I do think he's going to die in the finale.

[The Mance]

So I think one can reasonably criticize Deanna's decision, but to act as if she's a bully who likes to witness abuse is just silly.

Nobody said she likes it. wtf?

Also, can we focus on the fact that Rick was calling for Deanna to institute the death penalty as a replacement for exile? That's an audacious request, if you ask me.

I think that depends on where you set the bar for what sort of infractions are worthy of exile. If its just a matter of having to downsize the community due to lack of resources, or if someone is belligerent about not pulling their weight, then yeah, execution is extreme. But its a far more defensible solution to unresolvable conflict that will lead to violence, or ongoing violence between residence. If Deanna decides that Rick has to go, do you think that Rick would just contritely be on his way, or is he more likely to stick around and cause trouble from outside the walls? Sabotaging their defenses, or leading walkers back to them, or rallying together with other exiles and launching an actual attack on the community, for example.

I also find it amusing that, four weeks ago, the Alexandrians were condemned for harboring secret murderous intent, and now those same people are being scorned for not being murderous enough. It makes my head spin, it does.

Thats not what was happening. People were aware of the possibility that the Alexandrians had a secret murderous agenda, but nobody was condemning them for their intent as it hadn't been revealed yet. Hope that helps.

[Aerys Blackfyre]

why the f did Michonne hit Rick at the end of the last episode?

[Jon Fossoway]

Rick was losing it. Michonne just shut him off for a bit.

I was surprised by the intro sequence, with NIN´s song. I´m a big hardcore fan of NIN. That was grand.

[Aerys Blackfyre]

I was surprised by the intro sequence, with NIN´s song. I´m a big hardcore fan of NIN. That was grand.

yeah that was cool!

[awesome possum]

Rick really is a rather mentally fragile person for a leader in such a setting. I imagine any number of squad leaders in Vietnam or World War 2 etc faced daily death and horror on a similar scale, and yet if every leader went batshit crazy due to their experiences there would be chaos.

Rick already has gone batshit crazy. They did that whole plotline back in Season 3. Now he is going for a second crazy medal in Season 5.

If you're looking for a leader to help you survive the apocalypse, a super sensitive mentally fragile guy like Rick Grimes is really not the right choice.

I... what? Sometimes I wonder if there's another Walking Dead show on television with similarly named characters that I don't know about.

In the last year of his life Rick Grimes has:

1) been forced to kill his best friend who was trying to kill him

2) found out his wife died in child birth and his pre-teen son had to shoot her in the head before she came back as a zombie

3) put down his gun to try to improve life in other ways, just to see his efforts turn on him and make sick/kill a bunch of people via swine flu

4) have his home destroyed by a mad man with a tank

5) watched his mentor and adviser get his head cut off while trying to talk down said mad man with a tank

6) was comatose for a couple days while his son had to survive for both of them

7) almost had to watch his son and two friends get beaten, raped and then murdered

8) found a sanctuary only to discover they were going to eat him

9) had said cannibals who survived follow him and partially eat one of his members

10) had his rescue plan for Beth shot down and watched her get shot in the head

11) spent a month or two traveling and nearly starving/dehydrating to death

But yeah, some guys in Vietnam didn't crack from circumstances that are nothing like that, and we know all they came home perfectly healthy citizens ready to rejoin society, so Rick Grimes is a pussy for having severe PTSD and letting it affect his decisions.

Serious question here: do you only watch this show to take notes on things to bitch about?

[TrackerNeil]

Nobody said she likes it. wtf?

Actually, upthread someone said Deanna was "a complicit, abuse-enabling bully." That is the next best thing to liking to witness abuse.

[l2 0 5 5]

I... what? Sometimes I wonder if there's another Walking Dead show on television with similarly named characters that I don't know about.

Free Northman never disappoints. I wish there was a Live Cam on him/her when he/she is watching the episode. I think I would watch as he/she vigorously scribbles down notes and analogies to use on this board.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

In his defense he went into that conversation not knowing that Deanna was already aware of the Pete situation. That she did know, and was allowing it to happen, ratchets up the level of complication exponentially. She's gone from a naive but well-intentioned leader, to a complicit, abuse-enabling, bully, so fuck her and her incompetent son.

Not saying it's acceptable to allow the guy to beat his wife and kid, but Pete is a surgeon. He's an extremely valuable resource that needs to be handled with kid gloves, and with input from the rest of the community. Rick's reaction might be understandable, but he did not handle it well. Throwing the communities only healthcare provider through a window is not acceptable. It never should've got to that point.

[Relic]

I... what? Sometimes I wonder if there's another Walking Dead show on television with similarly named characters that I don't know about.

In the last year of his life Rick Grimes has:

1) been forced to kill his best friend who was trying to kill him

2) found out his wife died in child birth and his pre-teen son had to shoot her in the head before she came back as a zombie

3) put down his gun to try to improve life in other ways, just to see his efforts turn on him and make sick/kill a bunch of people via swine flu

4) have his home destroyed by a mad man with a tank

5) watched his mentor and adviser get his head cut off while trying to talk down said mad man with a tank

6) was comatose for a couple days while his son had to survive for both of them

7) almost had to watch his son and two friends get beaten, raped and then murdered

8) found a sanctuary only to discover they were going to eat him

9) had said cannibals who survived follow him and partially eat one of his members

10) had his rescue plan for Beth shot down and watched her get shot in the head

11) spent a month or two traveling and nearly starving/dehydrating to death

But yeah, some guys in Vietnam didn't crack from circumstances that are nothing like that, and we know all they came home perfectly healthy citizens ready to rejoin society, so Rick Grimes is a pussy for having severe PTSD and letting it affect his decisions.

Seal Team 6 for president. Fuck all these emotion having/feeling pussies. In the Real Zombie Apoc rednecks with guns and combat boots would rule the world!

[Crixus]

We need dead-inside zombies to combat the dead-outside zombies, damnit!

[TrackerNeil]

Not saying it's acceptable to allow the guy to beat his wife and kid, but Pete is a surgeon. He's an extremely valuable resource that needs to be handled with kid gloves, and with input from the rest of the community. Rick's reaction might be understandable, but he did not handle it well. Throwing the communities only healthcare provider through a window is not acceptable. It never should've got to that point.

Exactly. It's easy for Rick to take a no-tolerance policy when he's not the one who will have to answer for the consequences. It's Deanna's job to make sure the community has what it needs, and that means she has to think more carefully about the consequences of what she does. I think she deserves some criticism for her decisions, sure, but they were not easy decisions to make.

Also, when Rick was clearly spoiling for a fight when he confronted Pete; hell, the night before he'd given the man a long, silent glower and told him to walk away, all while holding a loaded gun. Rick would have done better to take Michonne, who has no history to mediate that situation, with him when he confronted Pete.

In any case, when your sheriff winds up pointing his gun at innocent bystanders in a bloody-faced surfeit of rage, you know you've hired the wrong guy. Seriously.

[The Mance]

Actually, upthread someone said Deanna was "a complicit, abuse-enabling bully." That is the next best thing to liking to witness abuse.

:lol: Ok Tracker. Because there aren't a hundred other reasons that one would bully another besides *likes it*

Not saying it's acceptable to allow the guy to beat his wife and kid, but Pete is a surgeon. He's an extremely valuable resource that needs to be handled with kid gloves, and with input from the rest of the community. Rick's reaction might be understandable, but he did not handle it well. Throwing the communities only healthcare provider through a window is not acceptable. It never should've got to that point.

Well i've already laid out how I think that we were shown Rick trying a non-confrontational approach to the situation. And because of how it played out its impossible to say what the next step might have been. If Pete hadn't walked in then maybe they might have tried separating him from Jessie and Sam by moving them or him to a different house, or maybe a coalition of other Alexandrians might have confronted Pete. I don't know. What's clear is that Deanna wasn't doing anything about it. And that it was Pete, not Rick, that escalated to violence.

[TrackerNeil]

Well i've already laid out how I think that we were shown Rick trying a non-confrontational approach to the situation. And because of how it played out its impossible to say what the next step might have been. If Pete hadn't walked in then maybe they might have tried separating him from Jessie and Sam by moving them or him to a different house, or maybe a coalition of other Alexandrians might have confronted Pete. I don't know. What's clear is that Deanna wasn't doing anything about it. And that it was Pete, not Rick, that escalated to violence.

And as sheriff it was Rick's job to keep the violence as restricted as possible. Instead, he ended by kneeling bloody-faced in the street, pointing a gun at Deanna and complaining that the Alexandrians had gotten everything wrong. Call me conservative, but I think that was perhaps overstepping what most people would expect from an officer of the law.

[The Mance]

I think she deserves some criticism for her decisions, sure, but they were not easy decisions to make.

Thats a presumption that I don't hink we are informed enough to make. Given the cold cost/benefit approach they seem to make regarding life saving heroics it may be a simple matter of math to Deanna. And its exactly the same calculation that Dawn makes at the hospital to justify the capture and keeping of slaves to placate her staff.

[TrackerNeil]

Thats a presumption that I don't hink we are informed enough to make. Given the cold cost/benefit approach they seem to make regarding life saving heroics it may be a simple matter of math to Deanna. And its exactly the same calculation that Dawn makes at the hospital to justify the capture and keeping of slaves to placate her staff.

Sure, we are informed enough here. We know that there are no more health care systems, so medical care is extremely limited, and we know Alexandria has precisely one doctor. That makes any decision about Pete difficult to make. Not impossible, and not immune to criticism, but difficult.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

And its exactly the same calculation that Dawn makes at the hospital to justify the capture and keeping of slaves to placate her staff.

Er yeah, no. Nowhere near the same calculation as taking and keeping slaves. Not even in the same ballpark.

[The Mother of The Others]

I blame the house. That's the house where Pete does all of his punching and where he benefits from creating awkward situations all day. So for him the fight was totally home field advantage. Plus he's bigger. And remember he's not "soft" vs. people, he's stayed mean towards people, it's only walkers he hasn't practiced fighting against. So it's not a total shocker that a bigger mean guy could take Rick to the mat after catching the constable off guard. And Pete was raging at the moment while Rick was practicing his calm act in order to get the wife onboard, so Rick had to shift gears suddenly without a plan. Pete was comfortable and punching at full force while the awkwardness worked against Rick who was wondering whether to act as a police officer or assassin.

I feel like the program is manipulating me to tune in again to see what happens next.