Alex. Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Everyone not named Martinez has known this for years, to be fair. It remains a mystery to me why even Martinez plays him. What does he think Alcaraz offers to the team, exactly?Genuinely no idea. He seems to have no depth perception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rorshach Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Everyone not named Martinez has known this for years, to be fair. It remains a mystery to me why even Martinez plays him. What does he think Alcaraz offers to the team, exactly? This question has made me pull my hair out for two years. To me, it has boiled down to this: Alcaraz is proof that Martinez knows absolutely f*ck all about defence. He came on a free transfer and has so far proved to be terrible value for money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rorshach Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Good thing I was fully expecting us to be terrible, because this is becoming embarrassing. Also, I want to see Alcaraz's contract voided tomorrow. I was giving him way too much credit in my previous comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereward Posted March 19, 2015 Author Share Posted March 19, 2015 Is it too late for Sky to ask for a refund? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 The Fox sports coverage of this game is quite poor, not a fan of this commentary team. 'Win the series on away goals' What series?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Everton getting hammered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mme Erzulie Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 What a strike! Absolute wonder goal. On par with the QPR goal against Palace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rorshach Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 So now we've got a season on our hands where all that's left is a relegation struggle. And Martinez wonders why the fans aren't backing him.. Said it before, I think, and I'll say it again: he wants to keep his job? He'll have to learn to plan for more than his belief, and now he's out of saving graces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Genuinely no idea. He seems to have no depth perception. The thing is, with a bad defender you can usually see the underlying reason. Maybe he's terrible at defending, but the manager wants the side to build from the back so he sticks with the guy because he's the best passing option they have in defence. Or maybe the manager's playing an older guy whose pace and positioning have gone out of a perceived need for 'experience' at the back. Alcaraz... I can't even guess why he's in the team. It's weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The guy from the Vale Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Two Ukrainian and two Russian teams among the top 8 in the Europa League. Plus one Belgian, one Spanish, one German and one Italian team. Interesting situation. No English teams in the Europa or Champions' Top 8 though. And while Chelsea was unlucky (well... and strategically dumb) and Arsenal just lost it by playing a terrible first leg, Man City and particularly Everton looked lackluster. So, what do English clubs have to change to get back into the top tier of European football? Money alone doesn't seem to help, as the PL already is the richest league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercenaryChef Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 As I have always said the epl is the worst 'big' league in the world.For fucks sake, they let newcastle in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The guy from the Vale Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 I won't disagree that the PL seems quite overrated (and overpaid...) on days like this. It's just extremely curious considering the enormous amounts of money being spent there. The Italian, German and even French league all seem to do better with less money. So, if the money is there, what is lacking? My main concern is that English football really seems to de-emphasize defense too much, seeing how Everton and Arsenal got hammered; Chelsea being unable to keep 9 PSG field players from scoring also comes to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I'm not sure what the 'collectively' need to change, I don't really think the problems are the same with every club. For me, it's a one off. The Telegraph have a piece linking Walcott to Liverpool, I think he would do really well under BR. Then again, it's the Telegraph. I'm pretty sure they make it up as they go along when it comes to the transfer market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex. Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Two Ukrainian and two Russian teams among the top 8 in the Europa League. Plus one Belgian, one Spanish, one German and one Italian team. Interesting situation. No English teams in the Europa or Champions' Top 8 though. And while Chelsea was unlucky (well... and strategically dumb) and Arsenal just lost it by playing a terrible first leg, Man City and particularly Everton looked lackluster. So, what do English clubs have to change to get back into the top tier of European football? Money alone doesn't seem to help, as the PL already is the richest league. There's about ten million thinkpieces on this around at the moment. Alternatively, it could all just be part of a cycle. Like about 8 or 9 years ago when English teams were absolutely dominating the Champion's League for a while. It's really not as huge a deal as it's being made out to be. ETA: Also, I think a lot of people are going a bit overboard about the state of the Premier League. Okay, all of the teams have been knocked out of Europe, but difficult opposition and unfortunately-timed poor form account for a decent amount of that. And the people querying the 'Best League In The World' stuff on the back of it seem to have missed the point entirely.I'm not saying that there aren't things that can be done better, but the whole, farking hell, an English team hasn't won a European competition for a couple of years: the BPL is dead! reaction is a bit over the top. This exactly. People worry too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I think the Liverpool link is just lazy journalism. Oh, it probably is. But if he does go ( which wouldn't surprise me at the moment), I'm certain it will be to an english team. It will probably cost a bit, but I still think he will do well in the set up at Liverpool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baxus Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 No English teams in the Europa or Champions' Top 8 though. And while Chelsea was unlucky (well... and strategically dumb) and Arsenal just lost it by playing a terrible first leg, Man City and particularly Everton looked lackluster. So, what do English clubs have to change to get back into the top tier of European football? Money alone doesn't seem to help, as the PL already is the richest league. And you don't see the reason for that, do you? I suppose you don't see Premier league matches being tougher on City, Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal than let's say La Liga matches are on Barcelona, Real and Atletico? More equal league revenue sharing among clubs means that pretty much every team in Premier league can buy good and costly players, while at least the bottom half of other leagues can't really do the same. Do you think Real or Barca have a problem playing let's say Elce away after the Champions' league group stage match? On the other hand, Stoke away after such a match would cause some headache for Premier league managers. Let's not even get into the whole Christmas schedule in the Premier league vs Christmas break in other leagues. I won't disagree that the PL seems quite overrated (and overpaid...) on days like this. It's just extremely curious considering the enormous amounts of money being spent there. The Italian, German and even French league all seem to do better with less money. So, if the money is there, what is lacking? My main concern is that English football really seems to de-emphasize defense too much, seeing how Everton and Arsenal got hammered; Chelsea being unable to keep 9 PSG field players from scoring also comes to mind. Italian, German and French top teams don't do better with less money. Saying PSG does anything with LESS money than anyone else is complete lunacy. They paid 50m£ for David Luiz, for God's sake! Plus Ibrahimovic, Cavani, Lavezzi, Thiago Motta etc. Similar can be said about Bayern*, while Juventus has absolutely no competition in Serie A and can quite comfortably focus entirely on the Champions' League. As for defensive issues, Everton has Martinez at the helm and his concern for defense is proverbial by now, Arsenal hasn't really been known as a great side defensively for the most part of post Adams-Keown-Dixon-Winterburn era and Chelsea "beeing unable to keep 9 PSG field players from scoring" is not some major blunder you try to present it as since even those 9 players cost hundreds of millions of euros in total. On top of all that, in the past 10 years, Premier League has had 3 different Champions' League winners (Liverpool, Man Utd, Chelsea - chronologically), has had 4 runners-up (Liverpool, Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal) and quite a few semi-finalists. And all that with Barca having a once-in-a-hundred years squad and pretty much dominating world football for a couple of years during those 10 years. Even Fulham reached the UEFA Cup finals a couple of years ago! If that's a crisis, I'd hate to see Premier League really hitting it off. It would kill every joy of watching European competitions. EDIT: *Bayern may not spend as much money as PSG (or quite a few other clubs) but they're no strangers to big signings. And they do tend to buy their competition's best players thus weakening the league significantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 And you don't see the reason for that, do you? I suppose you don't see Premier league matches being tougher on City, Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal than let's say La Liga matches are on Barcelona, Real and Atletico? More equal league revenue sharing among clubs means that pretty much every team in Premier league can buy good and costly players, while at least the bottom half of other leagues can't really do the same. Do you think Real or Barca have a problem playing let's say Elce away after the Champions' league group stage match? On the other hand, Stoke away after such a match would cause some headache for Premier league managers. Let's not even get into the whole Christmas schedule in the Premier league vs Christmas break in other leagues. The trouble is, all of these things were true previously, when the PL clubs had less money and did better in Europe. So, on the face of it, none of them really have the potential to explain the current poor performance. (Indeed, most of them can be argued the other way - that uncompetitive league fixtures don't prepare you well for European competition with your peers, for example.) I think that to some extent Alex is right that this year's performance is just statistically unusual. I think also that there's a difference between the best league and the league with the best clubs. But looked at over a broader period, I think there's a degree of underperformance in Europe by the top PL clubs, certainly relative to where they perceive themselves. It's not as bad as the current hand-wringing suggests, just as the success of the PL clubs a few years back was overplayed. But there is certainly room for improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baxus Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 The trouble is, all of these things were true previously, when the PL clubs had less money and did better in Europe. So, on the face of it, none of them really have the potential to explain the current poor performance. Most of them were, but not all. Mid and bottom half of the table clubs weren't able to buy 20-25 year old players who played for Barcelona, Milan and Ajax like Stoke bought Krkic. Nor would Hull be able to buy one of the starting strikers for a top 10-15 national team on FIFA rankings 10 years ago, like they bought Jelavic. Amount of money clubs have at their disposal has increased significantly over the last decade which has greatly increased quality of the Premier League and made games much more difficult to win. As I said, playing Sunderland or Villa is a bit more challenging than playing Elce or Almeria/Evian or Lorient/Padderborn or Mainz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gears of the Beast Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 official livestream for the CL draw here\ PSG vs BarcaAtletico vs Real MadridPorto vs bayernJuventus vs Monaco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Most of them were, but not all. Mid and bottom half of the table clubs weren't able to buy 20-25 year old players who played for Barcelona, Milan and Ajax like Stoke bought Krkic. Mid and bottom half of the table clubs in today's PL are not routinely buying players with that kind of pedigree now, either. Stoke could only do it because Bojan's career had stalled. Nor would Hull be able to buy one of the starting strikers for a top 10-15 national team on FIFA rankings 10 years ago, like they bought Jelavic. Or like Portsmouth buying Yakubu, or Bolton buying Okocha, or Fulham buying Saha? Sorry, but as I said - you can't attribute this season's results to a tougher domestic league, or these other supposed broader trends. You're reasoning ex post facto - looking for justifications rather than explanations. You need a trend, not a season's results, to say that these things are the cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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