Spockydog Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 12 minutes ago, red snow said: Also what's the deal with Quincannon? Is he immune to the voice or was it a simple case of "you never told me to forget about the deal but I did serve god". If he's immune then why? If he's not then why didn't Jesse just say "forget about the deal"? I'm guessing he has to be immune otherwise the last episode isn't much of a cliffhanger. I wonder if the minions had headphones on in that last scene? Quincannon's right hand man appears to have worked out the power Jesse has. Perhaps the effect wears off after a while - a bit like that purple dude from Jessica Jones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GallowKnight Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 26 minutes ago, red snow said: Also what's the deal with Quincannon? Is he immune to the voice or was it a simple case of "you never told me to forget about the deal but I did serve god". If he's immune then why? If he's not then why didn't Jesse just say "forget about the deal"? I'm guessing he has to be immune otherwise the last episode isn't much of a cliffhanger. I wonder if the minions had headphones on in that last scene? Quincannon's right hand man appears to have worked out the power Jesse has. Well, I guess every command given with the word can be up for interpretation. Jesse never specified which God to serve and it is possible that Quincannon could be serving some other god in his way. Someone who is a follower of another religion would probably not think to serve the christian god. Plus I guess it could be possible to serve god without explicitly being christian. And there's no way in hell he left Cassidy to burn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbunting Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 It was an interesting episode. I don't see how he would have left Cassidy to burn, he is an interesting character and the show would suffer without him. I mean, how can Jessie judge him evil when he himself kept a power that is half evil and wouldn't give it back to angels? While watching it I saw this episode as the evil side of his power taking control a little bit. Jesse cutting his sermon short instead of mind raping everyone like I think he planned to do is him struggling with whether it is right or wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 2 hours ago, Spockydog said: I reckon Jesse's indifference to Eugene's fate was actually Genesis' indifference. The episode title (He's Gone) likely refers to Jesse as much as Eugene. A lot of wheel-spinning in this episode, something which the show's been guilty of from the start. the walking dead factor. 2 hours ago, GallowKnight said: Well, I guess every command given with the word can be up for interpretation. Jesse never specified which God to serve and it is possible that Quincannon could be serving some other god in his way. Someone who is a follower of another religion would probably not think to serve the christian god. Plus I guess it could be possible to serve god without explicitly being christian. And there's no way in hell he left Cassidy to burn. But in that scenario his power still works on Quincannon so he could have used his power on him eg "YOU WILL LET ME KEEP MY LAND". 1 hour ago, dbunting said: It was an interesting episode. I don't see how he would have left Cassidy to burn, he is an interesting character and the show would suffer without him. I mean, how can Jessie judge him evil when he himself kept a power that is half evil and wouldn't give it back to angels? While watching it I saw this episode as the evil side of his power taking control a little bit. Jesse cutting his sermon short instead of mind raping everyone like I think he planned to do is him struggling with whether it is right or wrong. I was more interested in whether Jesse left him. I don't think Cassidy would necessarily die either way - he'd have had time to crawl into the shade irrespective and from what we've seen he's a bit like the Anne Rice vampires in terms of being impossible to definitively kill. Genesis possessing Jesse could also be an interesting angle rather than him just being corrupted. It's important the show establishes limits on his power or he'll be unstoppable. Maybe the more he uses the voice the more Genesis controls him? That would make him less flippant in its use. That said he never used his voice at all this episode - maybe sending someone to hell drains it given the impossibility of the task? I'm still not sure how I feel about him having done that as it feels too powerful and as others said last week should have resulted in Cassidy being able to fly. Although I guess a jump may be considered brief flying? Tenuous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darzin Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 I think the power did work on Quincannon, he did shoot the green energy guys as a result after all. I just think Jesse hasn't realized "serve God," does not equal "become and Christian," and thus he thinks his power didn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felice Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 8 hours ago, red snow said: Still dubious about the possibility the voice sent him to hell. The fact Cassidy witnessed events makes it unlikley Eugene snuck out while Jesse's back was turned. Cassidy knows Jesse thinks he sent Eugene to literal hell, and is treating Jesse accordingly. I think it's more likely that Emily was telling the truth (she'd do a lot for Jesse, but covering up his involvement in the disappearance of a kid is beyond the pale), and Cassidy is trying to help Jesse deal with what he thinks he's done. He seems to be in denial till the end of the episode, but it's obviously deeply affecting him, and left him unwilling to risk using his power (which is why he doesn't try it on Quincannon). I think it's a pretty safe assumption that he saved Cassidy. 9 hours ago, red snow said: Guess we got Eugene's backstory pretty quickly after wondering if they'd already stated it. It's far worse than I'd expected. Yeah. That's a change from the comics that makes this version of the character pretty much irredeemable, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterOJ Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 11 minutes ago, felice said: Cassidy knows Jesse thinks he sent Eugene to literal hell, and is treating Jesse accordingly. I think it's more likely that Emily was telling the truth (she'd do a lot for Jesse, but covering up his involvement in the disappearance of a kid is beyond the pale), and Cassidy is trying to help Jesse deal with what he thinks he's done. He seems to be in denial till the end of the episode, but it's obviously deeply affecting him, and left him unwilling to risk using his power (which is why he doesn't try it on Quincannon). I think it's a pretty safe assumption that he saved Cassidy. Yeah. That's a change from the comics that makes this version of the character pretty much irredeemable, I think. I think you're probably right on with what has happened with Eugene going "to hell." I also think that Jesse's recounting of Eugene's backstory with the prom queen will turn out to be at least partially false too. Eugene just taking a gun and blowing half her head off is way too simplistic and doesn't make sense. There is more to that story than Jesse either knows, or is telling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The BlackBear Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 9 hours ago, red snow said: Also what's the deal with Quincannon? Is he immune to the voice or was it a simple case of "you never told me to forget about the deal but I did serve god". If he's immune then why? If he's not then why didn't Jesse just say "forget about the deal"? I'm guessing he has to be immune otherwise the last episode isn't much of a cliffhanger. I wonder if the minions had headphones on in that last scene? Quincannon's right hand man appears to have worked out the power Jesse has. I think his 'god' is himself. He's actually called Odin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darzin Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 11 hours ago, The BlackBear said: I think his 'god' is himself. He's actually called Odin. I like that, so serve God becomes sere yourself. I am kinda disappointed with their confrontation though. I feel like they should have unpacked Quincannon's new motivations a bit more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 13 hours ago, MisterOJ said: I think you're probably right on with what has happened with Eugene going "to hell." I also think that Jesse's recounting of Eugene's backstory with the prom queen will turn out to be at least partially false too. Eugene just taking a gun and blowing half her head off is way too simplistic and doesn't make sense. There is more to that story than Jesse either knows, or is telling. If you check my theory upthread I think there's an easy "out" for Eugene regarding him being a cold-blooded murderer. I put it in spoiler tags because it sort of uses the comics for inspiration but given the events in the comic are completely different it's not a spoiler unless you intend to read the comic. So here it is again minus actual comic references Eugene was in love with the girl and she talked him into a suicide pact (who knows why). She successfully blows her own head off while Eugene fails. After the event Eugene takes the blame because a) everyone assumed that's what happened and b ) because he loves her and doesn't want people to think less of her. . This makes Eugene naive but not irreedeemable and ever-so slightly noble for shouldering the blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The BlackBear Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 8 minutes ago, red snow said: If you check my theory upthread I think there's an easy "out" for Eugene regarding him being a cold-blooded murderer. I don't think in the scenario Jesse gave us you'd call him cold blooded. He was a confused, mixed up, upset kid, heat of the moment type thing. Either way I am wondering if Jesse was wholly truthful, he could well have spun the story a little to try and assuage his guilt about sending him to 'hell.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Just now, The BlackBear said: I don't think in the scenario Jesse gave us you'd call him cold blooded. He was a confused, mixed up, upset kid, heat of the moment type thing. Either way I am wondering if Jesse was wholly truthful, he could well have spun the story a little to try and assuage his guilt about sending him to 'hell.' True. Bad choice of stock-phrasing. Still, it's not a great trait for a person to be capable of such things. Did Jesse specify if he turned up later with a shotgun or arrived with it? I guess that would have an impact too on his actions. Not that it matters as I suspect my theory as to what actually happened will be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The BlackBear Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 He just says 'Eugene got a shotgun.' No indication of timeframe, it seems unlikely to me he turned up to ask her out with a shotgun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 1 hour ago, The BlackBear said: He just says 'Eugene got a shotgun.' No indication of timeframe, it seems unlikely to me he turned up to ask her out with a shotgun. If he did - that might have been part of why she wasn't impressed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GallowKnight Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 I did not see that Donnie fake-out coming, even though the "suicide" really seemed like it came out of the left field. Some nice creative thinking there by Donnie though. The whole stand-off with Quincannon was pretty good and so was the examination of Odin's backstory and motivations. The show version feels like a better character than the comic version, who is mostly just comically inept. The was some great humorous touches as well with all the people coming to watch the potential shoot-out. The shot-off-dick-joke was pretty bad though and felt kinda crass, although it does actually seem like something that Garth Ennis would write. I like that they are starting to repair Jesse and making him see the errors of his ways and becoming a more likeable character. It'll be interesting to see if Eugene is in literal hell or just metaphorical hell. The part with Tulip and the good was equal parts good, sad and awful. Comic Book Spoilers Spoiler I'm thinking that the Angels back-up plan is going to involve a certain Saint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The BlackBear Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 Donnie was smart, yeah. Took me aside as well, I assumed he'd killed himself, but did think it seemed odd and out of place. I really liked seeing Quinncannon's breakdown flashback. The Tulip stuff felt out of place, just go to a butchers... We've seen him drink blood from bloodbags, it's not an issue. Jesse's redemption is gradual, but definite. His problem with what he did to Eugene grew last ep, and were front and centre here. Now he also has Genesis unwillingly, he spewed it out, and it went right back in. The Mayor is going in a nice creepy direction. As an outsider, the crowd arriving to watch a shootout at a church seemed incredibly American. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talleyrand Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 I loved Odin's pre-battle speech. "Now not to call you human shields but you are human and you will be shields of sorts." and later on "Now I don't mean faceless in a pejorative sense." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martini Sigil Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 1 hour ago, Talleyrand said: I loved Odin's pre-battle speech. "Now not to call you human shields but you are human and you will be shields of sorts." and later on "Now I don't mean faceless in a pejorative sense." Bwahahahahaha...... yeah... that really made me laugh.... and you're out of milk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felice Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 So Odin marches up to the church, sends in a few men whom Jessie beats up, then... sits out there all night doing nothing. The next day, they try attacking again, fail, and then sit around some more till after dark to attack a third time? I mean, the angels take up a bit of the afternoon, but that's still an awful lot of sitting around for no apparent reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Anti-Targ Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 5 hours ago, The BlackBear said: Donnie was smart, yeah. Took me aside as well, I assumed he'd killed himself, but did think it seemed odd and out of place. I really liked seeing Quinncannon's breakdown flashback. The Tulip stuff felt out of place, just go to a butchers... We've seen him drink blood from bloodbags, it's not an issue. Jesse's redemption is gradual, but definite. His problem with what he did to Eugene grew last ep, and were front and centre here. Now he also has Genesis unwillingly, he spewed it out, and it went right back in. The Mayor is going in a nice creepy direction. As an outsider, the crowd arriving to watch a shootout at a church seemed incredibly American. Cassidy was pretty badly off, perhaps the freshness of blood necessary to heal from a near death burning is greater than that which is needed to maintain an ordinary metabolic equilibrium. Though I would have thought a bit of the human variety would be needed in this situation. When we're feeling well we can get by on McDonalds and Doritos, but when we're not well we need chicken soup and kale smoothies. Are there continuity problems with Cassidy's vulnerability to sunlight? It seems in some scenes his skin is being lit directly by sunlight, but there is no effect, and in other scenes he's being burned by it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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