Avengers 2: The SPOILER thread (warning: spoilers NOT in tags)

[Castel]

Yeah I think the line could've been written better but I didn't read it as her sterility being monstrous. That said, BW being captured, being Hulk's nursemaid, and so on was kinda weird.

It would've played better if there was more of Maria Hill, a new female Avenger, or even a bit of the AoS team (May/Skye/Bobbi/Simmons).

I don't think that sterility in and of itself is monstrous. I think that, in context, being a killer that can't have kids is the issue.She kills people AND was made sterile to be better at it. Thus, the monster line.

My problem with Whedon is he's just not a very good director of action. I think both Avengers movies would have been twice as good if he had just written and produced them, leaving the direction to Brad Bird (The Incredibles, M.i. Ghost Protocol)

To me the action in Avengers will always have problems given the sorts of enemies they're fighting in the hectic environment they're fighting in. It won't ever be The Raid or even Winter Soldier.

I've seen a lot of criticism about him being a "TV director" too but I honestly can't see it. I guess I just don't have an eye for cinematography.

[Jack Bauer 24]

Just saw this in 3D. My first 3D film ever. Fun movie.

[Myrddin]

Just saw this in 3D. My first 3D film ever. Fun movie.

This will be a day long remembered. Jack Bauer 24 likes something!

[The Anti-Targ]

Personally I think the people who write Captain Marvel as a character need to interview a whole lot of female high ranking military officers (major and above) and get a real sense of how women operate in the military (from their perspective), and how they believe they are perceived in the military (by the public, by politicians, by their colleagues and by those who they command). As the first female A-list super powered Avenger (BW is a support character in most respects) they need to get her characterization absolutely spot on, for it to work with he audience. Getting her right is somewhat of a make or break situation. TBH I think introducing her with little build up in AoU would have been a bad idea, so I'm glad Whedon didn't get his comic fan wish on that. She is far to unknown outside comic book fandom to be given an out of context intro. Too bad about Spider-man though, he's well enough known that you can just throw him in and almost everyone will squee with excitement.

As I've said before, they also need to bring in She-Hulk to further fill out the female super roster.

[Jasta11]

Overall, enjoyed it a lot, probably my third favorite Marvel movie behind Iron Man and Winter Soldier. Some quibbles;

-The robots made of plasticine got a bit old after a while. They just weren't very credible enemies. Indeed, this applies to the movie as a whole; the guy in the beginning says it all, it's the Avengers, at this point they are so overpowered that the only drama could only come from fighting each other, fighting a Thanos-like demigod, or trying to save civilians. Even Black Widow dispatches dozens of Ultronbots with contemptuous ease.

-The Vision was, I don't know, a bit underwhelming? I kinda expected something with an Infinity Stone in its forehead to be more than Data with a cape. Maybe he will be further developped along the line. Furthermore, the ''Oh, Jarvis is actually alive'' moment was a bit cheap I found.

-So many characters, so much going on. I believe either Fury or the twins could have cut and the film wouldn't have suffered too much.

-Got a bit samey after a while, but that's a bit of a larger problem with Marvel movies just being highly formulaic. Winter Soldier bending said formula is probably why it's fondly seen.

But really I wanted an entertaining superhero movie, and I got that and more. The humor was on point (the entire theater laughed and applauded when Vision gave Thor his hammer), and the Hulk vs Hulkbuster fight was one of the best in the entire MCU. Ultron himself was a great villain, he had a presence and I loved his sass (even if it is kinda exclipsed by every single member of the cast being snarky because Whedon) even if his whole must-kill-humanity-to-save-it-because-fuck-Asimov's-first-law has been done to death with evil AIs.

It did kinda feel like a setup for Civil War/Infinity Wars, but a good one. Might rewatch it with another friend.

[The Wolves]

Yeah I think the line could've been written better but I didn't read it as her sterility being monstrous. That said, BW being captured, being Hulk's nursemaid, and so on was kinda weird.

It would've played better if there was more of Maria Hill, a new female Avenger, or even a bit of the AoS team (May/Skye/Bobbi/Simmons).

Ugh no, AOS characters especially Skye needs to not infect the movies just dull characters.

[The Anti-Targ]

Ugh no, AOS characters especially Skye needs to not infect the movies just dull characters.

The InHumans set up, especially with Skye being Daisy Johnson does strongly suggest a transition of at least a handful of AoS characters across to the movies was planned. Bobbi is definitely a transition candidate with her spin off series and especially if she gets the treatment she got in the comics, being

enhanced with super soldier serum and whatnot to become somewhat of a genuine super person

The comic book character Daisy Johnson really should feature in the movies in some way. But they way they've handled her in AoS might make it difficult to move her across. Movie goers who have never seen AoS might react more favourably to Daisy Johnson being intro'd to them for the first time in, perhaps, Civil War or InHumans. She wouldn't carry the baggage of Skye from season 1 with these people. I have no objection to the actor playing the role.

[red snow]

Personally I think the people who write Captain Marvel as a character need to interview a whole lot of female high ranking military officers (major and above) and get a real sense of how women operate in the military (from their perspective), and how they believe they are perceived in the military (by the public, by politicians, by their colleagues and by those who they command).

I think this would be a really good idea. I don't even think the comics have explored this in detail (only ever read the character when she guest starred in x-men via rogue) and it would get me interested. I think it would also help avoid the two scenarios I'm expecting from the film 1)they totally ignore the fact she's military or 2) they go for a stereotype. Actually doing a bit of research could create a unique (for superheroes) character and help her stand out. They pay comic writers as advisers, getting a woman of similar/higher rank to advise would make more sense.

[Myrddin]

Cause then they couldn't mine the weirdness of the fact that she's Peggy Carter's granddaughter or niece or whatever. Actually I guess they could, assuming Peggy would have taken her husbands name Sharon really shouldn't be Sharon Cater I guess. But with all the fuss over their representation of women (or lack thereof) they probably shouldn't be merging two of their few strong female characters.

Have they confirmed she's Peggy's grand-niece?

According to this, Agent 13 will be back in Civil War. It also raises the question of her identity, without my tin foil theory of her becoming Capt Marvel.

It would be a nice easter egg to hide her in plain sight for several films prior to becoming Ms. Marvel Rogue Capt. Marvel.

ETA: This is just a crack pot theory, not what I hope marvel will do. I'm still holding out for Katheryn Winnick to be Carol Danvers.

[Jon AS]

Given how scared Marvel appears to be of producing a female-lead film, I'm not sure that making her a supporting character in a different part of the MCU would help. In the worst case scenario, if they follow up on the (admittedly very tentative) hints of romance between Steve and Agent 13, Captain Marvel would become "that film about Captain America's girlfriend". They'll want to establish her as a strong character in her own right from the start, I think.

[The Reckoner]

We aren't getting a Hawkeye movie after the way Renner responded in those interviews, are we? :frown5:

[Myrddin]

Given how scared Marvel appears to be of producing a female-lead film, I'm not sure that making her a supporting character in a different part of the MCU would help. In the worst case scenario, if they follow up on the (admittedly very tentative) hints of romance between Steve and Agent 13, Captain Marvel would become "that film about Captain America's girlfriend". They'll want to establish her as a strong character in her own right from the start, I think.

Very good point.

I was thinking just fro the aspect of Van Camp creating a strong character from very little screen time. But you're right. It would do Capt Marvel a disservice to come in on Steve's coat tails. She'd be more akin to Batgirl than a character in her own right.

I withdrawn my tin foil theory. :)

[RumHam]

We aren't getting a Hawkeye movie after the way Renner responded in those interviews, are we? :frown5:

I don't think there was ever a serious chance we'd get a Hawkeye solo movie. But hey at least he'll be in Civil War.

[Winterfell is Burning]

I don't think there was ever a serious chance we'd get a Hawkeye solo movie. But hey at least he'll be in Civil War.

An adaptation of Fraction's Hawkguy would probably be the greatest thing ever.

[Jon AS]

An adaptation of Fraction's Hawkguy would probably be the greatest thing ever.

It would also be the complete opposite of the MCU version of Hawkeye.

[Howdyphillip]

Just saw this in 3D. My first 3D film ever. Fun movie.

Good start Old Chap. You actually conveyed enjoyment in something in one of your posts. Now, if we could only get you to add to a discussion with a contribution that contains more substance than "good" or "bad", you will become a valuable asset to the community.

Look, I know that I have been riding you a bit about this lately, but I am not doing so to personally attack you. When you have an opinion on something, please elaborate and give us the thoughts behind you opinion. Without that, there is just no room for discussion on this discussion board.

[Winterfell is Burning]

It would also be the complete opposite of the MCU version of Hawkeye.

Yeah, pretty much.

[The Anti-Targ]

Very good point.

I was thinking just fro the aspect of Van Camp creating a strong character from very little screen time. But you're right. It would do Capt Marvel a disservice to come in on Steve's coat tails. She'd be more akin to Batgirl than a character in her own right.

I withdrawn my tin foil theory. :)

I wouldn't withdraw the theory entirely. I would keep it as a "Marvel/Disney might just be stupid enough to do it, because Agent 13 became an audience favourite let's run with it instead of creating a new persona" theory. Winter soldier merely involved a bit of flirtation. If they suddenly decide to make Agent 13 Captain Marvel hopefully they have the presence of mind to NOT make it a full on romance and they take her in a more independent direction.

As an actor I would have no major objection to Van Camp being Captain Marvel. Though my preference for the actor to be at least as tall irl as Captain Marvel is in the comics (5'11") is not met in her case. So I kinda hope they don't turn agent 13 into Captain Marvel.

[CyanidePie]

Good start Old Chap. You actually conveyed enjoyment in something in one of your posts. Now, if we could only get you to add to a discussion with a contribution that contains more substance than "good" or "bad", you will become a valuable asset to the community.

Look, I know that I have been riding you a bit about this lately, but I am not doing so to personally attack you. When you have an opinion on something, please elaborate and give us the thoughts behind you opinion. Without that, there is just no room for discussion on this discussion board.

I don't interact personally with Jack, but this post is spot on.

I have often thought that Jack Bauer 24 is a robot that randomly generates forum responses. Nothing is ever elaborated on, things are just "good" or "bad" or any variant thereof.

[Winterfell is Burning]

I don't interact personally with Jack, but this post is spot on.

I have often thought that Jack Bauer 24 is a robot that randomly generates forum responses. Nothing is ever elaborated on, things are just "good" or "bad" or any variant thereof.

An IGN robot. Don't ever forget the constant links to IGN reviews, always agreeing with every word.