New Star Trek Series on CBS

[Aemon Stark]

Devil's Due, really? It's entertaining certainly.

My TNG favourites:

Contagion

The Measure of a Man

Q Who

The Defector

Deja Q

Sins of the Father

The Best of Both Worlds

Reunion

First Contact

The Wounded (first appearance of Cardies!)

The Drumhead

The Nth Degree

Unification

The First Duty

Cause and Effect

The Inner Light

Darmok

Tapestry

Time's Arrow

Chain of Command.

[red snow]

I think I'd definitely be up for a next gen "best of" view. I know I missed a large chunk of the show as a kid and while I'd like to watch it through I'm sure there are a ton of "skippable" episodes. There must be a lot of best of lists out there.

I think this thread is highlighting the fact there are a lot of people still passionate about a star trek show. I'd certainly like Trek and Stargate to be back in some form or other,.

Update: I found this list. What do people think? Are there any glaring omissions?

[Jon AS]

13 minutes ago, red snow said:

Update: I found this list. What do people think? Are there any glaring omissions?

At first glance, I'd skip "Skin of Evil" and possibly also "The Neutral Zone" from season 1.

Maybe add "The Emissary" to season 2, if you want to see how Worf's son was conceived...

Season 3 definitely add "Sarek".

For season 4, put "Brothers" in, plus "First Contact", possibly "Clues", maybe even "Remember Me" (Crusher doesn't get a lot of focus episodes, this is one of her better ones).

Season 5: "The Game"? Really? I think I'd strike that, put in the "Unification" two-parter. Not that great, but it does feature Spock and I'd certainly put it ahead of "The Game". Skip the "Time's Arrow" two-parter if you feel like there's too many episodes now.

Season 6: Take "Rascals" off the list immediately! What the fuck? Add "Relics" instead, it's got Scotty. Put in "Face of the Enemy" (similar reasons to "Remember Me" above, only this one focusses on Troy). Throw in "Starship Mine". It's not deep at all, but Picard getting to play Die Hard is fun.

Season 7 is suspiciously lacking "Sub Rosa" (no, I can't even joke about this) "The Pegasus".

[Arch-MaesterPhilip]

1 hour ago, Aemon Stark said:

Devil's Due, really? It's entertaining certainly.

My TNG favourites:

Contagion

The Measure of a Man

Q Who

The Defector

Deja Q

Sins of the Father

The Best of Both Worlds

Reunion

First Contact

The Wounded (first appearance of Cardies!)

The Drumhead

The Nth Degree

Unification

The First Duty

Cause and Effect

The Inner Light

Darmok

Tapestry

Time's Arrow

Chain of Command.

I like Devil's Due because it is really cheesy. I get a kick out of Picard quoting P.T. Barnum and mentioning the con game. I agree with your list for the most part.

[Aemon Stark]

It's arguably incomplete. As for cheesy episodes, there's always The Royale... Loves it.

[drawkcabi]

My favorite TNG episodes:

1. Yesterday's Enterprise
2. Best of Both Worlds
3. The Measure of a Man
4. Q Who
5. Deja Q
6. Tapestry
7. The Inner Light
8. The Defector
9. Hollow Pursuits
10. All Good Things...

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

I always list The Inner Light because it was absolutely not what I expected.  I thought it was a standard "alien abduction" episode and was so much more.

[Jaxom 1974]

4 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

My favorite TNG episodes are, and will always be, the Measure of a Man and The Inner Light.  I imagine other fans agreee.

1. Yesterday's Enterprise 

2. Best of Both Worlds 

3. Tapestry 

4. Q Who

5. Reunion

6.The Measure of a Man

7. The Drumhead

8. Family

9. Where Silence Has Lease

10. The Inner Light

 

It doesn't have to be in this specific order for me.  And I could easily add The Emmisary and Sins of the Father and a couple others to this list...

[Werthead]

Quote

That rewatch thread was epic. I think somewhere about halfway through it I decided to do a rewatch of my own (I had recently managed to acquire some of the series on DVD) and going through Wert's posts one episode at a time was both fun and hugely informative. His Babylon 5 thread was just as good and was what prompted me to finally watch the series. It's a damn shame the board ate both of them. *sigh*

 

Not so fast. The DS9 one was lost, but the B5 one appears intact: Part 1 and Part 2.

 

 

[SerHaHa]

Heh, I'm going to start reading the B5 threads today, thanks Wert - B5 is in my top 5 SciFi programs as well, as are all the TV films made in the B5 world, right up to the last one in 2007.  JMS said he's still working on B5 stuff, trying to get a film green lit or maybe even another series or DVD release disc.  Farscape is another great series IMO too, perhaps even all of the Startgate series, but particularly the last one, Universe.  Such a shame it was cancelled so soon, unfair I call it.

 

Inner Light I think is on every top 10 list out there in GoogleLand, for good reason.  Did you know the flute Picard played was recently up for auction again?  Also, the Ds9 station model was as well, the real prop they used, it was enormous, probably 20 feet across by the looks of it, god only knows what it weighed.  A well known Trek collector got it for a song IMO, only 7000$ or so.

Maybe if not a new DS9 rewatch thread, then a "top 10" episode rewatch thread of some kind?  It'd be great to see everyone's picks for their favorite episodes, DS9 has many, many great options to choose from in this regard.

[Jon AS]

3 hours ago, Werthead said:

Not so fast. The DS9 one was lost, but the B5 one appears intact: Part 1 and Part 2

Now I actually want to rewatch B5. Skimming through those threads: did Shryke ever get around to the promised reviews for the movies and Crusade?

[Rhom]

Tangentially related to the discussion we're having...

I just learned (literally 5 minutes ago) that the Mormons believe that God was a man on a planet named Kolob and later evolved into a deity who created Earth.  And that the Mormon theology formed the basis for background of Battlestar Galactica...   

Quote

Kolob as the inspiration for Kobol in Battlestar Galactica[edit]

Some of the elements of the two Battlestar Galactica science-fiction television shows seem to be derived from the Mormon beliefs of its creator and chief producer, Glen A. Larson. In both the original series from 1978, and the 2003 new series, the planet Kobol is the ancient and distant mother world of the entire human race and the planet where life began, and the "Lords of Kobol" are sacred figures to the human race. They are treated as elders or patriarchs in the old series, and versions of the Twelve Olympians in the new series. "Kobol" is an anagram of "Kolob" and, according to academic Jana Riess, is one of many plot points Larson has borrowed from Mormonism.^[53][54]

Wha... Wha... Whaaaaat?!!?   

[drawkcabi]

19 hours ago, SerHaHa said:

Maybe if not a new DS9 rewatch thread, then a "top 10" episode rewatch thread of some kind?  It'd be great to see everyone's picks for their favorite episodes, DS9 has many, many great options to choose from in this regard.

My top 10 DS9 episodes:

1. In The Pale Moonlight
2. Duet
3. In Purgatory's Shadow/By Inferno's Light
4. Far Beyond The Stars
5. Trials and Tribble-ations
6. Call To Arms
7. Improbable Cause/The Die Is Cast
8. The Magnificent Ferengi
9. The Wire
10. The Visitor

That was really difficult, there are so many outstanding episodes I could have made a top 30 or 40 list. Honorable mentions to Way of the Warrior, Necessary Evil, Our Man Bashir, Rapture, Dr. Bashir I Presume?, Fascination, Defiant, Little Green Men, Visionary, Apocalypse Rising,Children Of Time, For The Uniform, In the Cards, A Time To Stand, Sacrifice of Angels, Waltz, Homefront/Paradise Lost, Defiant, Statistical Probabilities, His Way, Badda Bing Badda Bang, and What You Leave Behind.

 

55 minutes ago, Rhom said:

Tangentially related to the discussion we're having...

I just learned (literally 5 minutes ago) that the Mormons believe that God was a man on a planet named Kolob and later evolved into a deity who created Earth.  And that the Mormon theology formed the basis for background of Battlestar Galactica...   

Wha... Wha... Whaaaaat?!!?   

So with South Park and BSG. That tears it Mormonism must be the one true religion.

[Jaxom 1974]

You forgot Prophet and Lace, Drawk...

[drawkcabi]

1 minute ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

You forgot Prophet and Lace, Drawk...

Damn, you're right! And where's the love for "Code of Honor" on TNG?

[Jaxom 1974]

3 minutes ago, drawkcabi said:

Damn, you're right! And where's the love for "Code of Honor" on TNG?

Code of Honor had that American Gladiators vibe going for it...popular at the time...so there's that...or something...

[Aemon Stark]

1 hour ago, drawkcabi said:

My top 10 DS9 episodes:

1. In The Pale Moonlight
2. Duet
3. In Purgatory's Shadow/By Inferno's Light
4. Far Beyond The Stars
5. Trials and Tribble-ations
6. Call To Arms
7. Improbable Cause/The Die Is Cast
8. The Magnificent Ferengi
9. The Wire
10. The Visitor

That was really difficult, there are so many outstanding episodes I could have made a top 30 or 40 list. Honorable mentions to Way of the Warrior, Necessary Evil, Our Man Bashir, Rapture, Dr. Bashir I Presume?, Fascination, Defiant, Little Green Men, Visionary, Apocalypse Rising,Children Of Time, For The Uniform, In the Cards, A Time To Stand, Sacrifice of Angels, Waltz, Homefront/Paradise Lost, Defiant, Statistical Probabilities, His Way, Badda Bing Badda Bang, and What You Leave Behind.

Good list. Note that Garak plays a major (or the major) role in four of those (and of course Andrew Robinson's daughter gets to hear Old Jake's story in The Visitor).

39 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

Code of Honor had that American Gladiators vibe going for it...popular at the time...so there's that...or something...

True... though it also felt it was written in the 1930s, something along the lines of Tintin in the Congo.

[SerHaHa]

Agreed, great list Drawk, I'm still pondering mine, but Pale Moonlight is in my top 3 someplace as well.  Garak was one of the best executed characters by both Robinson and the writers - mainly Ron Moore who developed much of his stories and background - and his penultimate performance was definitely Pale Moonlight.  Far Beyond the Stars is always a shoe in as well.  Sisko and his father in the final closing scene in that episode is some very powerful stuff, and Joseph Sisko quoting from the bible - a very uncommon thing, yet timely for this episode due to the historical period much of it was set in IMO - "I have fought the good fight, I have stayed the course, I have kept the faith" was exceptionally well written and delivered by Brock Peters.  I'm not particularly religious, but the sincerity of that scene really sold me on the father/son relationship and the experience father's often have.  If felt as though the writers had been inspired by the "no atheists in foxholes" analogy, something I can relate with.

Duet is excellent as well - IMO a rarity for any ST series, to have SUCH a powerful episode in the first season.  A true tour de force for the entire cast, crew, writers, producers, and director James Conway.  Nana Visitor set a very high bar herself for the remainder of the series in this episode, and she rarely disappointed even with such a lofty precedent set so early.

The Wire and The Visitor are excellent choices as well.  Way of the Warrior really threw down the gauntlet too, it IMO set a tone for the entire remainder of the series, not just the season, saying that the stories were going to diverge now from typical "peaceful" Trek ideals and take a more realistic turn towards what warfare and conflict could truly still be like in our future - the whole Plato sort of deal of "only the dead have seen the end of war".  From a ST-Tech geek sort of angle, this episode was fantastic as well, dozens of hybrid photon launchers, rotating phaser cannon/arrays, a massive, massive battle both in space and with Klingon troops with phasers and their beloved edged weapons, and great Defiant combat sequences as well.  This double episode has something for everyone I think, not to mention doing a great job of planting the seeds of the future Klingon episodes and themes for the rest of the series.  I still remember watching it live when it first aired, we'd just purchases a new 36" crt TV, and in those days that was huge, and rewinding the old VCR about a dozen times to rewatch many scenes over and over, thinking "now THIS is what I signed up for".

Siege of AR 558 is another of my top 10, as was the follow up Only a Paper Moon.  I need to think a bit more about it and the other remaining spots on the list to describe why.

 

 

[Werthead]

On 19/02/2016 at 3:12 PM, red snow said:

I think I'd definitely be up for a next gen "best of" view. I know I missed a large chunk of the show as a kid and while I'd like to watch it through I'm sure there are a ton of "skippable" episodes. There must be a lot of best of lists out there.

I think this thread is highlighting the fact there are a lot of people still passionate about a star trek show. I'd certainly like Trek and Stargate to be back in some form or other,.

Update: I found this list. What do people think? Are there any glaring omissions?

That's a really good list, as is his list for DS9. Although I like the fact that with DS9 he basically says fuck it and watch the whole show. The episodes he ranks make up almost 65% of the show's run anyway (whilst TNG is considerably less).

[SerHaHa]

Quote

Nog: It’s my money, Jake! If you want to bid at the auction, use your own money.
Jake: I’m human, I don’t have any money.
Nog: It’s not my fault that your species decided to abandon currency-based economics in favor of some philosophy of self-enhancement.
Jake: Hey, watch it! There’s nothing wrong with our philosophy, we work to better ourselves and the rest of humanity.
Nog: What does that mean, exactly?
Jake: It means… it means… we don’t need money!
Nog: Well, if you don’t need money, then you certainly don’t need mine!

This still makes me laugh, out loud.  Every time.

 

Reading Max Tempkin's DS9 page now too, timely, I just finished the ds9 thread here.  Some brilliant stuff here, I recommend everyone read it if they haven't already.

 

 

Quote

 

The Star Trek universe appeals to me because it is an unapologetically progressive show with an optimistic view of technology and our human capacities. In my episode guide for Next Generation, I wrote: “Star Trek has a special place in my heart because it shows us a future where we continue to advance technology and explore without destroying ourselves or shouting over each other on Twitter all day.” Star Trek is progressive on the small issues (universal healthcare, free education, a well-funded space program) and the big issues (labor rights, social justice, identity politics). That’s Next Generation.

But Deep Space Nine starts to question some of the uncomfortable contradictions in Star Trek’s progressivism, which I personally find to be more meaningful than believing the right things from the beginning. Consider this fable from Scott Alexander:

 

 

This excerpt really reminds me of this forum's subject matter author, GRRM and his "every character is shades of grey" ideal.

Quote

 

Deep Space Nine even takes the time to humanize its villains. One of the most memorable is Winn Adami, a detestable lawful-evil leader of Bajor’s religion portrayed by Louise Fletcher (Nurse Ratched in One Flew over the Cuckoo’s Nest). She is truly one of the least-likable characters I can think of in any media — she is the Dolores Umbridge of Star Trek. I hate her. But even Winn gets this conversation with Major Kira:

Kira:

It takes a lot of courage to admit you’re wrong. 

Winn:

And you think I lack courage? 

Kira:

I didn’t say that. 

Winn:

But it is what you think. Those of you who were in the Resistance, you’re all the same. You think you’re the only ones who fought the Cardassians, that you saved Bajor singlehandedly. Perhaps you forget, Major, the Cardassians arrested any Bajoran they found teaching the word of the Prophets. I was in a Cardassian prison camp for five years and I can remember each and every beating I suffered. And while you had your weapons to protect you, all I had was my faith and my courage.

 

 

The only fault I can find with Max Tempkin's excellent review/info page on DS9 is the following -

Quote

There are no movies or media to consume after the end of Deep Space Nine, the show wraps itself up pretty conclusively.

IMO this is absolutely incorrect, as the "DS9 Relaunch", as the series of 25 or so novels is called (you can Wiki it here - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_Deep_Space_Nine_relaunch) simply negates this statement.  There are all kinds of excellent follow up stories which carry the DS9 story forwards, some stronger than others, but overall quite well done.  Andrew Robinson's novel regarding Garak's background is pretty cerebral and different, but thoroughly enjoyable, as are all the rest of the books.