Rhom Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 39 minutes ago, SerHaHa said: Wow, great to see the love DS9 is getting here. Again, this just confirms to me that the intelligent people on this forum migrate to the bottom 4 sections - hah. I haven't been north of the general chat in years. That way lies madness. The kind of madness that can have 37 threads dedicated to R+L=J and honestly believe TWoW will be released in the next year... As to a rewatch thread, Wert had a great one for the remastered release of TNG. Thought there was one for DS9. I could be misremembering or it may have been gobbled up in the forum conversion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterOJ Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 1 hour ago, Rhom said: As to a rewatch thread, Wert had a great one for the remastered release of TNG. Thought there was one for DS9. I could be misremembering or it may have been gobbled up in the forum conversion. There was one at one point. Pretty sure I was involved with it, and I think it stalled out fairly early on in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamjm Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 14 hours ago, Rhom said: And yet Wrath of Khan and First Contact are more popular than Voyage Home and Generations. Episodes with the Borg and the Dominion outstrip general discovery and reflection. So... Do Trekkies really value the non action stuff? I got the impression a lot of Star Trek fans preferred The Voyage Home to First Contact (although among more casual fans the latter may be more popular). I don't think the reason Generations isn't popular is primarily about the amount of action in it. As to a rewatch thread, Wert had a great one for the remastered release of TNG. Thought there was one for DS9. I could be misremembering or it may have been gobbled up in the forum conversion. [/quote] Wert did an epic thread going through the entire season of DS9 but that was many years ago and I think it got lost in one of the board purges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveSumm Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 I never understood why everyone disliked Generations, I really enjoyed it. It's probably third behind tWoK and First Contact for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arch-MaesterPhilip Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 I actually prefer The Voyage Home to First Contact. I did like Generations though, I remember my aunt taking me to see it when I was eleven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 1 minute ago, DaveSumm said: I never understood why everyone disliked Generations, I really enjoyed it. It's probably third behind tWoK and First Contact for me. It isn't that it's bad...it's muddled in its final execution. 3 hours ago, RumHam said: Right, I should have realized that. Still that whole "I don't believe in no win scenarios" thing was bullshit from the start. Of course there are no win scenarios, and of course Khan isn't the only one who could make him face a no win scenario. Hell in the very next movie he's put in another no win situation when the Klingons demand the genesis device information and end up killing his son because he won't surrender it. In fact I'm willing to bet he faces at least one no win situation during the run of the original series. edit: http://io9.gizmodo.com/10-times-captain-kirk-actually-faced-a-no-win-scenario-1516665144 Of course Kirk faced no win scenarios! The key was that he didn't believe in them. He would always find a way. But in the end, Khan put him in a position where he couldn't save Spock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 20 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said: It isn't that it's bad...it's muddled in its final execution. Of course Kirk faced no win scenarios! The key was that he didn't believe in them. He would always find a way. But in the end, Khan put him in a position where he couldn't save Spock. Except... you know... he did. It just took him one more movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamjm Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 It isn't that it's bad...it's muddled in its final execution. It's also a terrible waste of potential. Many Trek fans had probably been dreaming for years about Kirk and Picard somehow uniting to work together on a mission, but when it finally happens they don't really do anything interesting with it. It's been a long time since I've watched it, but from what I remember Kirk doesn't do anything particularly interesting and then dies in an anticlimactic way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drawkcabi Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 6 minutes ago, williamjm said: It's also a terrible waste of potential. Many Trek fans had probably been dreaming for years about Kirk and Picard somehow uniting to work together on a mission, but when it finally happens they don't really do anything interesting with it. It's been a long time since I've watched it, but from what I remember Kirk doesn't do anything particularly interesting and then dies in an anticlimactic way. This. When I first saw Generations in 94 I liked it. It wasn't as good as I thought it was going to be but I thought it was ok. As the years go on the more I dislike it. If you thought Red Letter Media ripped apart the Star Wars prequels, they did even worse with Generations! Kirk's "death" on the Enterprise B was much better than his eventual death at the end of the movie. Also no Kirk on the Enterprise D bridge sucked. Maybe there was some sort of politics going on where they couldn't have Kirk in Picard's territory, especially if he was doing something that bailed them out of a situation, that would tip the balance of the whole Kirk vs. Picard thing I guess. But it would have been cool to see. I remember hearing when they were first bandying around ideas for the TNG movie they wanted to do a poster with the Enterprise A in battle with the Enterprise D. This was when they were also going to have the entire crew of TOS in the movie too and it would have been a half TOS film half TNG. That would have been nerdgasmly AWESOME. But budgets, lack of time to write a good script, yada yada yada, Nimoy and Kelly bowing out, and we got Generations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveSumm Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 I'd never seen any original series at the time so I guess I was just in for the TNG side of things......it feels like the most TNG movie somehow. But now you mention it, Kirk didn't do much. It would've been good to have them both on a ship somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrum Aeternum Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 3 hours ago, MisterOJ said: There was one at one point. Pretty sure I was involved with it, and I think it stalled out fairly early on in the process. Yep, I was in on that too. If we decide to fire that back up I will be on board. I still watch a block of DS9 favorites every now and then; to me it's held up so much better than the other Trek series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aemon Stark Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 If you consider that DS9 captured much of the post-Cold War uncertainty and preoccupations with everything from terrorism to the dehumanization of warfare, it's fairly clear why it still feels very "relevant". And in a way that TNG can't quite compare to for the most part (to say nothing of Voyager or Enterprise...). Even though it was filmed very much as a mid-90s series and kinda looks like one, the storytelling fits with our current sensibilities to a much greater extent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 2 hours ago, Rhom said: Except... you know... he did. It just took him one more movie. Hey, I'm not debating that...blame Nimoy for deciding he wanted back after asking to get killed off... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerHaHa Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 I met Wil Wheton back in 1988 during season 2 of TNG - I was at Calgary Tower (a big revolving tower/restaurant here in Calgary like the Space Needle...sort of) for a celebrity auction for the new Children's Hospital in town, and my uncle's bank was putting it on. I had NO idea ST TNG cast members were there, but Wheaton, Dorn (never met him then) and Frakes were all there for it. I skipped out of the opening stuff to play video games in the bar - Spy Hunter. This other kid came up and quarter dropped me (for those of you not old, you did this with arcade games to take the next turn from whomever was on the machine), and took my next game. He took over, then asked me if I wanted to play next - pretty polite. It was Wil Wheaton, and I immediately recognized him, as I would race home from my paper route collections every Friday night for TNG back then. He was stunned somebody in Canada recognized him so fast, but I'd seen Stand by Me as well recently. He signed a post card for me - I'll scan it and post a link later. We played Spy Hunter for an hour (on me mostly, as he had little Canadian change), and got along great. Finally one of the handlers for the event found him and took him back to work. A few years back the entire cast of TNG was together completely for the first time in forever at the Calgary Comic Expo deal, and he remembered the whole Spy Hunter incident from 25 years earlier, as he had caught hell for skipping out to play video games with some other dumb kid there, that being me. Got a new autograph on the same post card from 1988. Patrick Stewart was very kind to Wil during the panel, as he hadn't been a part of TNG cast/panels as he was then in 2012 in a long time, so it was a great experience to see that. There is YT video of it, I'll find it later and post it with some pics I took of my SO and myself with various cast, and Wil with the 25 year old autograph. I really respect Wil for his writing and work, and his progressive, friendly, and kind attitude towards others, especially those with depression issues like he has (my SO struggles greatly with this as well). I know he was forever labeled as that "shut up Wesley" annoying kid from TNG, but being the same age as him and cutting my teeth on SciFi with his work, I never saw him that way, and some of his latter work, particularly "The First Duty" and "Journey's End" episodes, his work IMO was excellent. Wert always contributes fantastic posts/threads, one of my favorite mods/posters, and I'm sorry I missed out on his DS9 thread. I sincerely hope he would be willing to have a round 2 of this, as I don't feel like I have enough juice to start one, but would love to to contribute and read other ideas and posts from the great posters in the bottom part of this forum (Ser Scott and many others too). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveSumm Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 I asked Wert about a DS9 rewatch back in the TNG thread: Quote Yes. In 2007-08 I did an extensive Star Trek Deep Space Nine rewatch. It was comprehensive. It was beautiful. It was, quite literally, the greatest thing I've ever written. It may be modest to say it, but I think there is a very good chance it was the single towering achievement of humanity to this time. Then the board inexplicably lost it. And I hadn't saved any of the entries to another file Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martini Sigil Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 19 hours ago, Rhom said: And yet Wrath of Khan and First Contact are more popular than Voyage Home and Generations. Episodes with the Borg and the Dominion outstrip general discovery and reflection. So... Do Trekkies really value the non action stuff? My bad... you are correct.... the best Treks were always like "The Best of Both Worlds"...what I meant to imply that the action stuff was never gratuitous... action and explosions as a means to showcase CGI and budget... Trek always had its own underlying principles running through it... and violence was a last resort, and never a means unto themselves...But you're right.... the shows/movies were better when they had some good fight scenes....lol The Borg and the Dominion were representations of everything that we --and by extension, the Federation-- are against... not just good vs bad... but rather ideological conflict.... but the physical expressions of said conflicts are --as you adeptly pointed out-- the best part for us nerds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durckad Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 5 hours ago, DaveSumm said: I asked Wert about a DS9 rewatch back in the TNG thread: That rewatch thread was epic. I think somewhere about halfway through it I decided to do a rewatch of my own (I had recently managed to acquire some of the series on DVD) and going through Wert's posts one episode at a time was both fun and hugely informative. His Babylon 5 thread was just as good and was what prompted me to finally watch the series. It's a damn shame the board ate both of them. *sigh* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drawkcabi Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 10 hours ago, DaveSumm said: ......it feels like the most TNG movie somehow. Maybe because it's the only movie with the Enterprise D and (half the time ) TNG uniforms? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 On Thursday, February 18, 2016 at 0:18 AM, Rhom said: And yet Wrath of Khan and First Contact are more popular than Voyage Home and Generations. Episodes with the Borg and the Dominion outstrip general discovery and reflection. So... Do Trekkies really value the non action stuff? My favorite TNG episodes are, and will always be, the Measure of a Man and The Inner Light. I imagine other fans agreee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arch-MaesterPhilip Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 11 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: My favorite TNG episodes are, and will always be, the Measure of a Man and The Inner Light. I imagine other fans agreee. I really like Darmok and Devil's Due. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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