Let's Discuss Arya's Pie Baking Logistics

[Mista C]

1.  Infiltrates the Frey's castle.

2.  Kills two (at least) Frey's.

3.  Dismembers them for their meat.

4.  Brings meat to the kitchen.

5.  Assembles other pie ingredients.

6.  Prepares and bakes pie.

7.  Serves pie to Walder Frey, who is completely alone in his dining hall.

8.  Kills Walder Frey.

9. Escapes the Frey's castle.

So I'm having a very hard time with numbers 2-6.  She had to kill both Frey's without anyone seeing.  Then she had to bring both of their bodies somewhere secret where she could dismember the bodies and obtain their meat without anyone interrupting her.  Then she had to get their meat down to the kitchen somehow.  Then she had to assemble the ingredients, prepare the pie and bake the pie, all while in the company of the regular Frey kitchen staff, who were not at all concerned that there was a stranger using their kitchen to assemble and bake pies.  Cool scene, but logistically it just does not work.  Am I missing anything?

[Mista C]

I could have watched an entire 60 minute episode showing this whole sequence, from beginning to end.

[Not a kneeler]

She picked up Hot Pie along the way for his pie baking expertise. He baked the pie which she brought with her and just threw in the Frey bits at the last minute. Hot Pie!

[Lord Varys]

It just sucks. I mean, she didn't even savor the moment. Walder didn't even eat his own sons. I mean, anyone doing a thing like that must have the mind and taste of Wyman Manderly. You have to enjoy the taste of the Frey meat yourself and you must enjoy watching others do it without realizing what they are eating (like Walda and Roose).

That is the fun of it. What the show did is just crap. Complete crap.

[The Chequered Raven]

1 hour ago, Mista C said:

 Cool scene, but logistically it just does not work.  Am I missing anything?

Yes, you missed "Creatively it made sense, becaus we wanted it to happen"

And, a girl who runs and fights after seriously stabbed in the guts will most likely not have very much problems with 2 - 6...

[Frimmel]

26 minutes ago, Mista C said:

I could have watched an entire 60 minute episode showing this whole sequence, from beginning to end.

I'm incredibly disappointed that we didn't get an entire sixty minute episode showing all of this. I mean is the hall empty because she murdered them all in their sleep thus allowing her the privacy to bake? And don't get me started with how they could have set this up back with Jaquen having him turn from The Waif being a face in the hall to see Arya wearing the face The Waif wore to come kill her and Lady Crane. 

I still cheered though. *** shame-face *** 

[JMJ]

Also, where did she get the face she wore? Did she kill someone on the way to the Twins? 

[TickTak7]

Honest question - do the logistics of how it happened even matter? 

The moment was such a rewarding one, ending with a payoff we've all wanted since season 3. 

Why not just enjoy it. 

The bigger plottywotty thing was where she got the mask from, but we don't need everything answered for a scene to make sense. 

 

[Frimmel]

4 minutes ago, JMJ said:

Also, where did she get the face she wore? Did she kill someone on the way to the Twins? 

Exactly my questions. Why can she still wear faces if she's Arya and not A Girl. See Jaqen should have turned from dead waif to see Arya there in the face the waif was wearing to kill her and Lady Crane. Arya does the reveal and Jaqen is all "Now a girl is no one." So why can she wear the face? How did she get the face? So many questions despite that I rather enjoyed it.  

[AryaNymeriaVisenya]

I believe she and Hot Pie colluded in this. No one can tell me otherwise. He was probably exasperated when she said there needed to be visible human remains. He had his good mincer out.

[RhaenysBee]

Logistics...? I have never heard of such thing before. Is it from the same world as dinosaurs, logic and consistency? 

[hallam]

53 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

It just sucks. I mean, she didn't even savor the moment. Walder didn't even eat his own sons. I mean, anyone doing a thing like that must have the mind and taste of Wyman Manderly. You have to enjoy the taste of the Frey meat yourself and you must enjoy watching others do it without realizing what they are eating (like Walda and Roose).

That is the fun of it. What the show did is just crap. Complete crap.

Oh, I am certain that the only reason that she killed Walder before he ate the pie was because there would be screams about it being gratuitous otherwise. Even though the book version makes it obvious that the entire Frey-Bentos joke was planned from the start. It is a brand of pie that comes in a can.

Congrats on complaining that GoT is not violent enough for your taste after watching an episode that has a serial killer take out four people and a mass murderer wipe out hundreds. 

40 minutes ago, JMJ said:

Also, where did she get the face she wore? Did she kill someone on the way to the Twins? 

Looks like it. She did say she would key Freys. Possible she stole it from the hall of faces.

33 minutes ago, Frimmel said:

Exactly my questions. Why can she still wear faces if she's Arya and not A Girl. See Jaqen should have turned from dead waif to see Arya there in the face the waif was wearing to kill her and Lady Crane. Arya does the reveal and Jaqen is all "Now a girl is no one." So why can she wear the face? How did she get the face? So many questions despite that I rather enjoyed it.  

The magic system in the books seems to be pretty much egalitarian. There is no real magic, only science that has different effects. Anyone who understands the principles can use the magic. There are no 'muggles' or 'squibs' like in Harry Potter. So having learned the skills she can continue to use them.

We didn't see Arya being taught how to make a face but we saw her use one. And that is presumably a learned skill.

[Cron]

2 hours ago, Mista C said:

1.  Infiltrates the Frey's castle.

2.  Kills two (at least) Frey's.

3.  Dismembers them for their meat.

4.  Brings meat to the kitchen.

5.  Assembles other pie ingredients.

6.  Prepares and bakes pie.

7.  Serves pie to Walder Frey, who is completely alone in his dining hall.

8.  Kills Walder Frey.

9. Escapes the Frey's castle.

So I'm having a very hard time with numbers 2-6.  She had to kill both Frey's without anyone seeing.  Then she had to bring both of their bodies somewhere secret where she could dismember the bodies and obtain their meat without anyone interrupting her.  Then she had to get their meat down to the kitchen somehow.  Then she had to assemble the ingredients, prepare the pie and bake the pie, all while in the company of the regular Frey kitchen staff, who were not at all concerned that there was a stranger using their kitchen to assemble and bake pies.  Cool scene, but logistically it just does not work.  Am I missing anything?

I agree it seemed highly improbable.

Indeed, why would she even BOTHER to go to such extraordinary lengths, or take such extreme risks that would be associated with going through all that????

Uhhhh....all she had to do was face-change, walk up behind Walder and garrote him, or stab him, or whatever.

My goodness, as I recall, Arya went to all that pie-baking trouble, and for what?  Walder didn't even eat any of it.

[tormund's beard]

it doesn't make sense because it shouldn't be happening.

the frey pies in the books work because they were two freys in manderlys turf gettin' cooked.

the frey pies along with manderly in wf and the north remebering in the show are a giant glowing fuck you to book readers and nothing more.

[direwoofwoof]

Seems like the person-in-the-pigeon-pie is such a great tale from the books that they wanted to use it again. Just like the time travel, we need to suspend belief re: the logistics of this fun scene. I loved it... loved Arya's revenge, loved that she was there earlier scoping out Jamie, loved that she killed that old Walker Frey and totally freaked him out before she did it. Btw... it would have taken HOURS to prepare and bake that pie... but let's just savor the result! 

[Ser Yorick Ampersand]

Everyone saw it coming. I thought the whole thing was done lazy and lousy. They had Lord Manderly in the North doing a copypasta DaKingInDaNorff from season 2 when they could have chosen to do the Manderly - The North Remembers speech. "Treating with liars" "The mummers farce" "My son is home" - all the good things.

It could have been so beautifully done. Instead of just saying outloud "FREYPIE! LOOK AT IT! WE DUN IT! FANSERVICE! EVERYONE REJOYCE!" they could have just implied it leaving some doubt like the book.

No nuance. No subtlety. Nothing.

*dies of sadness*

[mattnj81]

While I appreciated that they were trying to give a nod to the book readers with the Frey pies, the whole thing seemed rushed and yes, implausible. 

[The Fattest Leech]

3 hours ago, hallam said:

Oh, I am certain that the only reason that she killed Walder before he ate the pie was because there would be screams about it being gratuitous otherwise. Even though the book version makes it obvious that the entire Frey-Bentos joke was planned from the start. It is a brand of pie that comes in a can.

Congrats on complaining that GoT is not violent enough for your taste after watching an episode that has a serial killer take out four people and a mass murderer wipe out hundreds. 

Looks like it. She did say she would key Freys. Possible she stole it from the hall of faces.

The magic system in the books seems to be pretty much egalitarian. There is no real magic, only science that has different effects. Anyone who understands the principles can use the magic. There are no 'muggles' or 'squibs' like in Harry Potter. So having learned the skills she can continue to use them.

We didn't see Arya being taught how to make a face but we saw her use one. And that is presumably a learned skill.

Goood heavens, no. This rumor needs to end.

The Frey name is inspired by something else completely different for the books. And the fact that the Frey pies happen in the books is for many more reasons than just a quasi-trained-assain-girl to make the lord take a bite of his kin. It has a much deeper meaning. 

In the books there is a ton of actual foreshadowing for the Red Wedding, not just Robb being defeated. This comes from the same POV character that we learn of the Rat Cook, a tale about violating guest rights and sacred hospitality. The D's are notorious in their dislike for both magic and religion in the show (magic doesn't really exist and religion is bad), so it is no surprise to me that they would mess up something that is a driving force in parts of the actual plot.

"It was not for murder that the gods cursed him, nor for serving the Andal king his son in a pie. A man has a right to vengeance. But he slew a guest beneath his roof, and that the gods cannot forgive."

And on top of it, this was done in Winterfell against the Bolton/Alliance because, guess what? The North actually does remember.

And with Arya "presumably" learning a major, life altering skill like killing someone and wearing their face... don't you think we should have actually seen that knowledge happen on screen? Maybe not "you" personally, but a "you" as in the collective viewer. There is far too much off-screen storytelling going on for this to be considered a serious, mature drama.

[[Deleted]]

1 hour ago, Cron said:

I agree it seemed highly improbable.

Indeed, why would she even BOTHER to go to such extraordinary lengths, or take such extreme risks that would be associated with going through all that????

Uhhhh....all she had to do was face-change, walk up behind Walder and garrote him, or stab him, or whatever.

My goodness, as I recall, Arya went to all that pie-baking trouble, and for what?  Walder didn't even eat any of it.

This is my biggest issue. Even if she could do it, why would she do it? She could have just as easily beheaded them and kept their heads in a bag to pull out when Walder asked "Where are my sons?"

Seems like a huge waste of time.

[YOVMO]

3 hours ago, Mista C said:

1.  Infiltrates the Frey's castle.

2.  Kills two (at least) Frey's.

3.  Dismembers them for their meat.

4.  Brings meat to the kitchen.

5.  Assembles other pie ingredients.

6.  Prepares and bakes pie.

7.  Serves pie to Walder Frey, who is completely alone in his dining hall.

8.  Kills Walder Frey.

9. Escapes the Frey's castle.

So I'm having a very hard time with numbers 2-6.  She had to kill both Frey's without anyone seeing.  Then she had to bring both of their bodies somewhere secret where she could dismember the bodies and obtain their meat without anyone interrupting her.  Then she had to get their meat down to the kitchen somehow.  Then she had to assemble the ingredients, prepare the pie and bake the pie, all while in the company of the regular Frey kitchen staff, who were not at all concerned that there was a stranger using their kitchen to assemble and bake pies.  Cool scene, but logistically it just does not work.  Am I missing anything?

You forget that this baking had to be done during a huge party when the kitchens were packed. Also, she needed a face to wear so either she brought a bag of faces with her from the house of black and white or she is just killing random kitchen wenches and cutting heir faces off.

 

The part that gets me is the sitting for 3-4 hours next to a stove in a frantic and busy kitchen while the pie with Black Walder and the other one is just cooking up. At some point I have to figure she would say "am I fucking insane?"