Nictarion Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 31 minutes ago, The BlackBear said: Maul should have stayed alive as an ongoing antagonist to Obi Wan who should have been the main character of the prequels. Can't disagree with that. Maul>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Dooku Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castel Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 17 minutes ago, ab aeterno said: That's all true, but it doesn't make what Palpatine accuses any less true. What's legal and what's moral aren't the same, and the Jedi did exactly what Palpatine accused them of doing, even if they were justified in doing it. He manipulated the Jedi into becoming soldiers, spreading themselves out across the galaxy, and into trying to seize power so that he could present himself to the Senate as a victim and justify further increasing his power, which he needed to do at the time. I'm not arguing that the Jedi were wrong in doing what they did, necessarily, just that they did exactly what Palpatine accused them off when he declared the formation of the Empire. It's true, from a very cynical perspective on truth I feel. It's "certain point of view" truth It's not like Palpatine's accusations are actually meant to be in the service of truth. He's not exactly going to give the public the full picture when he accuses the Jedi of trying to overthrow the Republic will he? If Mace Windu didn't show up he'd just...have done the whole thing anyway. Just without losing his face. So I'm not really inclined to take him as speaking truth, or having any sort of casus belli. There's more than one way to mislead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperry Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 I was not a big fan of TFA, but I loved Rogue One. Think it's my favorite Star Wars film to date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 4 hours ago, Werthead said: It's a funny comedy video, but one that ignores Jedi precognition (so they tend to move ahead of time to where they perceive the enemy will be) and, y'know, basic fight choreography. The precognition argument does not stand against Obi-Wan twirling his lightsaber when Maul is down, or guys intentionally hitting above the height of their opponent because they did not want to get hit with the sticks they actually used. Precognition would have been shown better if the strikes were true, but the parries came just a little faster to stop them. But, yes, that video I believe was made by people as a response to Lucas or someone from his team who boasted that that was the best fight ever, and no one has done it before, or something like that. Now there are instances when Jedi/Sith use the force to block or divert lightsabers, but none of the movie duels really show that. In the TFA novelization, Kylo Ren does so when Rey has him on the ropes, but only for so long until she breaks down his defenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channel4s-JonSnow Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 The precognition argument is more hilarious than that video. My first watch of TPM I was in awe of that fight, but every time afterwards I noticed that all they are doing is banging sticks. Its no different to this: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ab aeterno Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 5 hours ago, Corvinus said: Now there are instances when Jedi/Sith use the force to block or divert lightsabers, but none of the movie duels really show that. In the TFA novelization, Kylo Ren does so when Rey has him on the ropes, but only for so long until she breaks down his defenses. They show some of that in RotS during the duel on Mustafar, but it's not brilliantly executed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 3 hours ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said: The precognition argument is more hilarious than that video. My first watch of TPM I was in awe of that fight, but every time afterwards I noticed that all they are doing is banging sticks. To be fair, pretty much every movie swordfight is almost entirely people banging sticks. Some put better disguise on it than others, but it doesn't matter if you miss by an inch or a mile, flynning's flynning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 10 hours ago, The BlackBear said: Maul should have stayed alive as an ongoing antagonist to Obi Wan who should have been the main character of the prequels. In the official canon, Darth Maul survived The Phantom Menace. It's dumb, but it does lead to some reasonably badass moments in The Clone Wars, where he indeed remains as an ongoing foil and villain for Obi-Wan (and the Emperor, whose apprentice job is now taken). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 Give Lucas credit, the prequels are poor but he 100% pulled off the Boba Fett trick again with Maul. A character with virtually no dialogue or personality but a cool visual that allows fans to project onto him enough that he improbably survives certain death to make appearances in side media and sell a ton of merchandise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ab aeterno Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 20 minutes ago, mormont said: Give Lucas credit, the prequels are poor but he 100% pulled off the Boba Fett trick again with Maul. A character with virtually no dialogue or personality but a cool visual that allows fans to project onto him enough that he improbably survives certain death to make appearances in side media and sell a ton of merchandise. I wonder if Lucas would have made them into strong characters if they had sufficient screentime. I have to say, I'm increasingly inclined to trust Dave Filoni on these things. He seems to have a lot of Lucas' 'feel' for Star Wars but a better grasp on story and characterisation. The best thing to come from Maul though has got to be Ray Park, who has to be my favourite cast member. He always comes across as very genuine, enjoys interacting with fans, and whenever you see him talking about Star Wars he always seems a bit starstruck. He loves it - and he gets it, in a way that a number of the cast members don't really seem to. Hr reminds me a lot of the Firefly cast in that regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 11 hours ago, ab aeterno said: That's all true, but it doesn't make what Palpatine accuses any less true. What's legal and what's moral aren't the same, and the Jedi did exactly what Palpatine accused them of doing, even if they were justified in doing it. He manipulated the Jedi into becoming soldiers, spreading themselves out across the galaxy, and into trying to seize power so that he could present himself to the Senate as a victim and justify further increasing his power, which he needed to do at the time. He created a situation where they had to try to seize power, and to plant the seeds of their own destruction. That's why he revealed himself to Anakin, so that Anakin would inform the Council. I'm not arguing that the Jedi were wrong in doing what they did, necessarily, just that they did exactly what Palpatine accused them off when he declared the formation of the Empire. But in the end Palpatine did show his true colors. Even if Mace was wrong to try and kill him (I dont think he was wrong). When he fails what happens? Palpatine makes Anakin kill him, then sets in Order 66 and kills (however many) other Jedi and Anakin goes to kill all the Younglings! So like, it was a good thing for the Jedi to try and stop him, as he was obviously trying to seize power of the galaxy and kill all of them. The Jedi were planning to overthrow him, but only him, it's not like they had a list of 100 people and children they were planning to kill like he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 1 hour ago, polishgenius said: To be fair, pretty much every movie swordfight is almost entirely people banging sticks. Some put better disguise on it than others, but it doesn't matter if you miss by an inch or a mile, flynning's flynning. Which is why to me the best movie swordfights continue to be the ones in 1970s versions of The Three Musketeers/The Four Musketeers; so much more visceral and full-bodied than what movies generally show. Unfortunately, the only fight from it on youtube is the one time there is a decent amount of flynning; although around halfway through the fight starts devolving into what the rest of the movie is like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ab aeterno Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 3 minutes ago, Suzanna Stormborn said: But in the end Palpatine did show his true colors. Even if Mace was wrong to try and kill him (I dont think he was wrong). When he fails what happens? Palpatine makes Anakin kill him, then sets in Order 66 and kills (however many) other Jedi and Anakin goes to kill all the Younglings! So like, it was a good thing for the Jedi to try and stop him, as he was obviously trying to seize power of the galaxy and kill all of them. The Jedi were planning to overthrow him, but only him, it's not like they had a list of 100 people and children they were planning to kill like he did. All I'm saying is that the Jedi, for all their moralising, believe the end justifies the means, the same as Palpatine does. He calls them out on their hypocrisy, and he's right to. The passage below is from the RotS novelisation - which recounts Yoda coming to a somewhat similar realisation. 'He spoke softly, but not to himself. Though no one was with him, he was not alone. "My failure, this was. Failed the Jedi, I did." He spoke to the Force. And the Force answered him. Do not blame yourself, my old friend. As it sometimes had these past thirteen years, when the Force spoke to him, it spoke in the voice of Qui-Gon Jinn. "Too old I was," Yoda said. "Too rigid. Too arrogant to see that the old way is not the only way. These Jedi, I trained to become the Jedi who had trained me, long centuries ago—but those ancient Jedi, of a different time they were. Changed, has the galaxy. Changed, the Order did not—because let it change, I did not." More easily said than done, my friend. "An infinite mystery is the Force." Yoda lifted his head and turned his gaze out into the wheel of stars. "Much to learn, there still is." And you will have time to learn it. "Infinite knowledge..." Yoda shook his head. "Infinite time, does that require." With my help, you can learn to join with the Force, yet retain consciousness. You can join your light to it forever. Perhaps, in time, even your physical self. Yoda did not move. "Eternal life..." The ultimate goal of the Sith, yet they can never achieve it; it comes only by the release of self, not the exaltation of self. It comes through compassion, not greed. Love is the answer to the darkness. ' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 Rob Roy probably has my favorite movie sword fight. Something like that wouldn't work as a lightsaber fight though. It would be over in like 2 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channel4s-JonSnow Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 The ESB fight between Luke and Vader is clearly the best in the series, by a million miles. For one simple reason, it has an emotional impact and isn't simply about atheletics or technique. Its also incredibly well directed and looks beautiful. The fights in the prequels were mainly awful because they were just people (computer generated people) jumping about for no reason. Lucas failed to notice that if a fight doesn't mean anything then its not that entertaining. Fights can tell stories. Its one of the reasons I think 'the raid' is such an overrated movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generalzod Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 13 hours ago, Ramsay B. said: I still get chills when those huge door opens and Maul is standing there waiting for them. Awesome fight scene, but just an absurdly dumb death. It still annoys me. Given how hard it is to create an iconic memorable villain whose very look makes him a fan fave, and given how they've twisted themselves into pretzels to concoct ridiculous ressurections of him in comics and cartoons, it was indeed a dumb ass death. Not as dumb as Boba Fett in the Sarlaac pit, but pretty dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sivin Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 3 hours ago, polishgenius said: To be fair, pretty much every movie swordfight is almost entirely people banging sticks. Some put better disguise on it than others, but it doesn't matter if you miss by an inch or a mile, flynning's flynning. The sword fight at the beginning of Die Another Day is pretty great. But Brosnan and the bad guy are throwing each other through glass and beating the hell out of each other. 1 hour ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said: The ESB fight between Luke and Vader is clearly the best in the series, by a million miles. For one simple reason, it has an emotional impact and isn't simply about atheletics or technique. Its also incredibly well directed and looks beautiful. The fights in the prequels were mainly awful because they were just people (computer generated people) jumping about for no reason. Lucas failed to notice that if a fight doesn't mean anything then its not that entertaining. Fights can tell stories. Its one of the reasons I think 'the raid' is such an overrated movie. I am partial to the Jedi fight. Luke loosing his shit when Vader taunts him has always felt organic and real to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 1 hour ago, Nictarion said: Rob Roy probably has my favorite movie sword fight. Something like that wouldn't work as a lightsaber fight though. It would be over in like 2 seconds. I haven't seen Rob Roy, but looking it up, that is a good fight. The one in Troy is one of my favourites, but again, don't think it would work for a lightsabre fight. For one thing, the shields and armour play too big a part. This is the kind of thing lightsabre fights should be taking inspiration from. Pretty sure, like I say, that's what was in Lucas' head for the prequels (not that scene directly, obviously, since CTHD was after Phantom Menace, but the general style), he just didn't do it quite as well (though, like I say, I like the Phantom Menace fight). 1 hour ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said: Fights can tell stories. Its one of the reasons I think 'the raid' is such an overrated movie. Pfft. There's plenty of narrative within the fighting in The Raid, even if only the last one has emotional and story significance beyond the act of fighting itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordsteve666 Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 Best lightsaber fight ever is clearly this one. Actually it's surprising how good any scene is just by adding in some of John William's music. His compositions are just way more epic than a lot of TV and movie soundtracks could hope to be and they really add to the scenes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generalzod Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/carrie-fisher-suffers-heart-attack-plane-report-959091?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=THR Breaking News_now_2016-12-23 13:31:55_jstrause&utm_term=hollywoodreporter_breakingnews :-( Hope Princess Leia is ok and recovers quickly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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