Football: No Title Ideas

[baxus]

38 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

Liverpool's defence is fucking hysterical.

Even when they manage to do something right, they simultaneously manage to make a mess of it.

[kairparavel]

This ref has been terribad on all sides.

[ljkeane]

This is starting to get a little irritating.

[Mark Antony]

Rare awful game from Mane. 

Sturridge was also poor. Not sure he will ever work out in Klopps system. His best days were always playing off another striker.

Salah is the most frustrating player, constantly in dangerous positions but can’t finish to save his life. 

38 minutes ago, Soylent Brown said:

That chance wasn't exactly ideal, the ball came to him with the keeper about 2 feet away! 

If that was Firmino you would be saying he’s dog shit  

[Consigliere]

Newcastle played really well - very fortunate with the equalizer though. Rafa got his defensive tactics right but Newcastle were also able to get forward with purpose - it wasn't all one-way traffic. Draw is a fair result.

[Jordan La Cabra]

AC Milan falling to defeat at home against Roma. Despite all the money they spent they're still way behind the big guns.

How long before they chop Montella and bring back Ancelotti?

[Consigliere]

31 minutes ago, JordanJH1993 said:

How long before they chop Montella and bring back Ancelotti?

Very soon, I expect. With the international break coming up, it's a good time to make the change. A top manager like Ancelotti (who has deep ties with the club to boot) unexpectedly becoming available is an opportunity AC Milan should not be passing up. 

[Jordan La Cabra]

1 hour ago, Consigliere said:

Very soon, I expect. With the international break coming up, it's a good time to make the change. A top manager like Ancelotti (who has deep ties with the club to boot) unexpectedly becoming available is an opportunity AC Milan should not be passing up. 

I can't help but hope Ancelotti doesn't take a job until the end of the season. The somewhat volatile relationship between Conte and the Chelsea board make me think that he mightn't see his contract out, whether that be the club's choice or his own.

Chelsea have sacked that many managers that if they were to lose Conte, they'd have to look at some of the previous managers, as they did when they reappointed Jose.

[Iskaral Pust]

Not watching Liverpool is really freeing up some time in my weekends.  Sounds like it was the same old story again.  We've become very consistent, in an unfortunate way. 

[The Winged Shadow]

Got my wish, Sturridge alongside Mane and Salah. Didn't work out too well. He really is poor in a 4-3-3. His pressing is absolutely rubbish. His anticipation isn't very good, so it seems like he is always a step behind and constantly chasing the ball with zero hope of creating any opportunity. Sometimes i think he presses for the sake of pressing without having any idea why. Firmino and Lallana are much better at 'herding' the ball towards a trap/counter press, and generally leaves the CB's alone and force a press on the holding mids. Sturridge just runs around pressing CBs he has no hope of winning the ball from. The only time he showed some good pressing intelligence was when he anticipated a back pass to the goal keeper.

He also had very minimal involvement in build up, always waiting for someone to create something for him. And his finishing isn't on point yet. So he offers nothing over Firmino at the moment. Probably needs a few more games to adjust and learn.

Having said that, seeing how much better he looks in a 4-2-3-1 (this time, with Salah playing behind), I think it's worth changing the system to get him at his best. He is rusty as he hasn't played regularly for quite a while, so I still think he is worth persevering with. But I do think there needs to be a Firmino/Lallana behind him who makes up for his crappy pressing and will run back and work hard defensively (as well as have the ability to play him in behind defense).

Mane had a pretty bad game. Nothing seemed to work for him. His dribbling, first touch, passes etc all lacked the finesse you usually expect from him. Salah did what he always does, except this time he didn't sneak in a goal.

Newcastle's goal was pretty lucky. Matip's sliding clearance bounces off Joselu's shin and curls into the goal. So god damn annoying. Other than that, the defense did their job pretty well. Although the they will probably still cop it as it wasn't a clean sheet.

8 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said:

Not watching Liverpool is really freeing up some time in my weekends.  Sounds like it was the same old story again.  We've become very consistent, in an unfortunate way. 

I don't think you'd be unhappy with how they played. They created plenty of clear cut chances. Finishing was poor once again. I think in previous seasons they didn't create the clear cut chances, just lots of half chances. So that is a big improvement. Watching them miss good chances will be the frustrating part.

Defensively, no howlers. Another improvement. But result definitely feels like a loss.

[AncalagonTheBlack]

Our next 2 games are against United and Tottenham.I'm not looking forward to them.Klopp will be under real pressure if we don't get something from those games.

 

And if this article is to be believed,our pressing game has almost vanished as well.

Quote

But let’s stick to Jurgen Klopp’s “fundamental” . Pressing. Few are looking at it in the discussion of Liverpool’s curious start to the season — but they should.

Moreno reiterates there is no change in the key instruction given to players: “The manager has always remained pretty faithful to the way he wants to play the game... as soon as we lose possession, do everything we can to surround the ball and get it back as quickly as possible.” Pressing. “The best playmaker there is,” Klopp once said.

So, consider this. Analysis using data provided by InStat, the global service for sports professionals like scouts and coaches, suggests a remarkable drop-off in Liverpool’s pressing game since the start of 2017-18. If results are mediocre then so is the performance of Klopp’s side’s core activity.

The InStat data was analysed by CIES Football Observatory to produce a table showing the average seconds in possession allowed to the opposition by every Premier League team. How long a side lets you have the ball before winning it back. In 2016-17, Liverpool were virtually top of this table — neck-and-neck with Tottenham and Manchester City as the team allowing foes the least time on the ball. In 2017-18, Klopp’s men have fallen back dramatically. They’re joint ninth in the rankings alongside West Ham and lowest placed of all the “big six” clubs.

While City and Spurs have honed their pressing games further, Liverpool have suddenly relaxed their efforts. You now get an extra 3.6 seconds per possession against Liverpool compared to Manchester City. A lot can happen in 3.6 seconds on a football pitch.

You have to be careful with stats, of course. In a sport as multi-faceted as football, taking one measure from one source and drawing definitive conclusions is dangerous. So The Sunday Times went seeking further information.

Opta, the Premier League’s official data partner, provided some. Liverpool are down, down in terms of running numbers, covering less distance overall and making fewer sprints than in 2016-17, when they were the competition’s hardest-working team.

Anfield Index is a respected platform that, for several seasons, has analysed Liverpool’s pressing in obsessive detail. AI reported that in the first four games of 2017-18, Liverpool’s overall volume of “pressing actions” was down 15%, and instances of “group pressing” down 50%.

We then sought anecdotal evidence and here is a verdict from inside the camp of a side who have faced Liverpool this season. “It was easy-oasy. We had a nice afternoon.” The team in question came braced for the kind of full-throttle test they’d endured in their previous meeting, at Anfield, but found the game rather “flat” and felt Liverpool had nothing like the “legs” they did before.

 

[polishgenius]

2 hours ago, The Winged Shadow said:

Defensively, no howlers. Another improvement. But result definitely feels like a loss.

 

Well, apart from the goal, in which Joselu got through with the most lesiurely break ever seen and then didn't even have to shoot to score because Matip kindly booted it onto him.

[The Winged Shadow]

49 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

 

Well, apart from the goal, in which Joselu got through with the most lesiurely break ever seen and then didn't even have to shoot to score because Matip kindly booted it onto him.

I don't think that was a howler. That was probably the best pass Shelvey ever played. Decent run. The goal was just pure luck. Don't think Matip could've done much more (other than the make the first step forward to make it offside, it was a super tight call as it was). I don't think when you slide in like he did to clear the ball you will have a whole lot of control. And then the ball bounces off Joselu and curls perfectly into the corner.

Considering the mistakes the defense have made over the last few weeks (and years :P), that was a pretty ok goal to concede. Good pass and a well timed run to create the chance. Almost refreshing!

Or maybe my standard for a 'howler' is different to supporters of other teams with good defense

1 hour ago, AncalagonTheBlack said:

Our next 2 games are against United and Tottenham.I'm not looking forward to them.Klopp will be under real pressure if we don't get something from those games.

 

And if this article is to be believed,our pressing game has almost vanished as well.

 

Not sure I fully agree with that article. Having watched all the games, I think some of the reduction in numbers are simply because they have better possession/slower build up (in some games) and therefore less sprinting/running up and down and thus reduced distance travel by team. This is not necessarily a bad thing.

So far this season, they haven't conceded as many counterattacks (at least that's how i felt so far this season). Even though each counter attack seems to have lead to a goal! This probably reduced the number of defensive sprints. Although I get the feeling that offensive sprints should be higher than last year with both Mane and Salah in the team.

Then there is the fact that they just played defensively against Hoffenheim (away) and Manchester City. So early stats could just be a bit skewed at the moment.

Do agree on the pressing though. It hasn't been at its best (except against Arsenal). But Lallana's absence probably explains a bit of that. Not to mention some of the new squad members (Salah, Gomez, TAA, Robertson, Solanke etc) probably broke the pressing rhythm a bit. I actually haven't paid too much attention to how Salah presses with the team, so will have to keep an eye out now.

[MercenaryChef]

i know a lot of you won't want to admit it, but newcastle simply outplayed liverpool.

rafa's game plan was perfect and was executed perfectly. 

they kept shape, absorbed attacks well and did everything needed to frustrate liverpool.

only a moment of brilliance from coutinho could bring a goal. without that they were just a team running around with lots of meaningless possession sending wayward shots at the goal. they rarely  looked like a real threat. 

[Mark Antony]

2 minutes ago, MercurialCannibal said:

i know a lot of you won't want to admit it, but newcastle simply outplayed liverpool.

rafa's game plan was perfect and was executed perfectly. 

they kept shape, absorbed attacks well and did everything needed to frustrate liverpool.

only a moment of brilliance from coutinho could bring a goal. without that they were just a team running around with lots of meaningless possession sending wayward shots at the goal. they rarely  looked like a real threat. 

Agreed. Rafa out classed Klopp. Miss the man. 

[baxus]

1 hour ago, The Winged Shadow said:

I don't think that was a howler. That was probably the best pass Shelvey ever played. Decent run. The goal was just pure luck. Don't think Matip could've done much more (other than the make the first step forward to make it offside, it was a super tight call as it was). I don't think when you slide in like he did to clear the ball you will have a whole lot of control. And then the ball bounces off Joselu and curls perfectly into the corner.

Considering the mistakes the defense have made over the last few weeks (and years :P), that was a pretty ok goal to concede. Good pass and a well timed run to create the chance. Almost refreshing!

That is exactly what I meant when I said that even when our defense manages to do a good job they also manage to make a mess of it.

That slide from Matip was great, I can't fault him for that one bit. It's just that it probably bounced of Joselu's leg better than he would've shot it and ended up in the back of the net. It's just one of those freak goals that happen from time to time. Conceding such a goal would be no problem if they stopped conceding stupid goals they can actually do something about.

[Jordan La Cabra]

This is hypothetical, but say Liverpool missed out on top four and didn't win any trophies this season, would that be enough for Liverpool fans to think Klopp isn't the man for the job? And would any of you guys welcome Rafa back if Klopp were to leave or be sacked?

[Rorshach]

I think the debate on Liverpool’s defense misses a bit of focus. 

Joselu ran through on goal. A man slower than a crawling old man. Your defense let him through on a run, and you’ve done something very, very wrong.

[Consigliere]

1 hour ago, JordanJH1993 said:

This is hypothetical, but say Liverpool missed out on top four and didn't win any trophies this season, would that be enough for Liverpool fans to think Klopp isn't the man for the job? And would any of you guys welcome Rafa back if Klopp were to leave or be sacked?

Not a Liverpool fan but I'd say Klopp should be given another couple of seasons to try and sort out the personnel issues. He's got the side playing their best brand of football since the 2013/2014 season. His tactics worked well at Dortmund, however he did have a better keeper (Weidenfeller), a real leader in defence (Hummels), a better defensive midfielder (Bender) and a better #9 (Lewandowski).

Klopp should realistically be able to upgrade on what he currently has in those positions. VVD should make the move - Southampton made their point but I think VVD will be allowed to leave next season (maybe even in January). He needs someone who can provide better defensive cover than Hendo in midfield, get rid of the likes of Ings, Origi, Sturridge, Flanagan etc. (these guys are too injury prone/not good enough and are just clogging up the wage bill while making no meaningful impact over the course of numerous seasons). Bring in a player more suited to the CF position than Firmino (Werner, Stindl, Dolberg) or break the bank on Belotti.

[baxus]

I don't think bringing in 4 best defenders in the world (whoever they may be, I'm not trying to start that debate) would solve Liverpool's defensive problems. The system is missing. They look as if they had no training sessions focused on defensive play. It's a complete shambles. VVD won't make a bit of difference unless that changes.