MCUniverse- Captain Marvel Rises!

[Heartofice]

2 minutes ago, john said:

Sounds like you agree with mormont then, that it is partly the reason.

Because the fundraiser isn’t offering tickets to boys.

Doesn’t really answer why it’s about representation. If you’d said it’s about showing positive role models to girls I’d understand. But then at the same time shouldn’t boys also see positive female role models ?

[john]

4 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Doesn’t really answer why it’s about representation. If you’d said it’s about showing positive role models to girls I’d understand. But then at the same time shouldn’t boys also see positive female role models ?

I can’t control what the fundraiser is about.  I’m just telling you what it’s about.

[red snow]

4 hours ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

Can we all agree that it's shameful we never got a standalone Black Widow movie where that slut Jeremy Renner tries to seduce the virtuous Ruskie?

 

But there still might be! But It's 7 years overdue

[red snow]

3 hours ago, Heartofice said:

Doesn’t really answer why it’s about representation. If you’d said it’s about showing positive role models to girls I’d understand. But then at the same time shouldn’t boys also see positive female role models ?

Exactly it's win-win having positive female role models for girls and boys. A bit like the new dr who.

Next step is for young people to have role models that don't always solve their problems by beating the shit out of each other. Although that's arguably not the job of superhero movies unless you're soecisl power is to de-escalate conflict through negotiation, argument and compromise

[briantw]

4 hours ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

Can we all agree that it's shameful we never got a standalone Black Widow movie where that slut Jeremy Renner tries to seduce the virtuous Ruskie?

 

Would have been a great opportunity for them to make a more grounded, spy-style film too, which could have been fun.  Like a more low key Winter Soldier.

Personally, I like when some of these films are just fun and low stakes.  Like, the two Ant-Man movies weren't my favorite Marvel films, but I enjoyed both of them a lot.  Just good, dumb fun.  Spider-Man was similarly low-stakes and was great.  The literal fate of the world doesn't always have to be on the line.

[Heartofice]

32 minutes ago, red snow said:

Exactly it's win-win having positive female role models for girls and boys. A bit like the new dr who.

Next step is for young people to have role models that don't always solve their problems by beating the shit out of each other. Although that's arguably not the job of superhero movies unless you're soecisl power is to de-escalate conflict through negotiation, argument and compromise

I don't know how many people actually use superheroes as role models anyway. My favourite characters growing up were Batman and Wolverine and yet its been ages since I took vengeance on the death of my parents by ripping someone apart with my claws. 

Quote

Personally, I like when some of these films are just fun and low stakes.  Like, the two Ant-Man movies weren't my favorite Marvel films, but I enjoyed both of them a lot.  Just good, dumb fun.  Spider-Man was similarly low-stakes and was great.  The literal fate of the world doesn't always have to be on the line.

I want more movies that don't end up with some boring Boss-fight at the end. I don't know where that pattern came from, where a story has to build up to a big end battle, but I think I'm pretty tired of it.

[The Anti-Targ]

9 hours ago, Heartofice said:

I don't know how many people actually use superheroes as role models anyway. My favourite characters growing up were Batman and Wolverine and yet its been ages since I took vengeance on the death of my parents by ripping someone apart with my claws. 

I want more movies that don't end up with some boring Boss-fight at the end. I don't know where that pattern came from, where a story has to build up to a big end battle, but I think I'm pretty tired of it.

Most people don't translate the actions of fictional role models into their lives literally. But if art can't inspire people it doesn't have much of a purpose other than being a product that makes money. And most of the time when art is just a product for making money it doesn't do all that well at the money-making bit

 

[Jeor]

Re: the role models thing, I don't think it's necessarily that people will live their lives trying to replicate what their role model did, it's more a general inspiration thing where you pick out things in the characters that you like.

For example, I remember growing up as a nerd (still am one!), and rather than trying to un-nerd myself, finding comfort from the fact that Peter Parker had this nerdy high school science background. Didn't mean I wanted to be swinging from building to building but it was kind of cool that he was "a bit like me" and that was celebrated as a good thing.

I think there's also a general understanding that the "mutants" theme in X-Men etc tapped into lots of things about not fitting in or people misunderstanding you. E.g. general teen angst, being in an ethnic minority or different social class, etc. As someone from a racial minority, I don't think I ever really thought about it consciously in that way, but it could kind of make sense.

[Darth Richard II]

Just wait until they introduce the new ms marvel to the mcu. Right wingers will have a melt down.

[red snow]

5 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Most people don't translate the actions of fictional role models into their lives literally. But if art can't inspire people it doesn't have much of a purpose other than being a product that makes money. And most of the time when art is just a product for making money it doesn't do all that well at the money-making bit

 

Eg people eventually gave up on transformers (not sure why it took so many films)

And every film that tried to create a shared universe franchise st the expense of just making the film at hand good eg the (recent) mummy and amazing Spider-Man 2.

23 minutes ago, Jeor said:

Re: the role models thing, I don't think it's necessarily that people will live their lives trying to replicate what their role model did, it's more a general inspiration thing where you pick out things in the characters that you like.

For example, I remember growing up as a nerd (still am one!), and rather than trying to un-nerd myself, finding comfort from the fact that Peter Parker had this nerdy high school science background. Didn't mean I wanted to be swinging from building to building but it was kind of cool that he was "a bit like me" and that was celebrated as a good thing.

I think there's also a general understanding that the "mutants" theme in X-Men etc tapped into lots of things about not fitting in or people misunderstanding you. E.g. general teen angst, being in an ethnic minority or different social class, etc. As someone from a racial minority, I don't think I ever really thought about it consciously in that way, but it could kind of make sense.

And to the credit of the x-men franchise from "all new" onwards the cast has always represented said diversity with international characters, black and Asian heroes, mutants who look very different/have disabilities, different religions and sexual orientations. All coming together to protect other mutants and humans irrespective of whether they fear and hate them. That's a pretty good message and I'm sure is a big factor in how it became such a success. In many ways the MCU is getting the franchise at a great time as they can put what they've learned/are learning from Black Panther, Captain Marvel and Black Widow and apply it to X-men. People often talk about the villain library being the major plus of the fox acquisition but the X-Men hands a lot of diversity on a plate for them to shine a light on. The X-men have a load of great female characters far more than any of the other marvel comics i can think of.

It would be fun if a captain marvel/avengers sequel has a certain Rogue as a member of the brotherhood of mutants.

[The Mother of The Others]

Hyper Pants!   It's less than a week away.  Who knew.  (Final Countdown by Europe.)  I hope the aliens were able to hide their british accents in this movie.   I'll try to be outraged for you Darth, but don't get your hopes up too high, plus if they did a comics accurate character wouldn't everyone be upset because people aren't enamored with this character and don't buy the comic all that often.  This is Feige's opportunity to help out the comic side of the company by adding some likeability to Carol that might carry over to the book.   Here's hoping the performance isn't wooden throughout, and that they're able to maintain dramatic tension , because if she can blast her way out of everything it might be tough for viewers to get worried about her and root for her.   

Man of Steel kind of lost me for that reason during the part when they were wrecking that small town and just kept wailing on each other and nobody got hurt except the Denny's.  It got to where it felt meaningless and numbing (on the first watch, then on rewatches i didn't mind it so much.)  Whereas Superman villains have to rely too heavily on kryptonite to level the playing field because it's his only weakness, it looks like the aliens here will give themselves a chance against Carol by hiding so she doesn't have anything much to hit because she blasts the bejesus out of anything in plain sight.  Is that a recipe for awesome, though?    We'll see....  in 5 days!  

[The Anti-Targ]

They are able to make the almost indestructible Thor work by hamming him up. I guess they're not going to do that with Captain Marvel. It seems like they will be trying to use flashback stuff to show that she was vulnerable (I get knocked down and I get up again...), to break up all of her invincibility as Captain Marvel. She is meant to be merely super powered most of the time and not an unstoppable machine. It's meant to be only when she goes into binary form that she's crazy scary and unstoppable, so maybe they use that too. A bunch of Skrulls should be able to give her a good fight as long as she's not juiced up. But hopefully not another horde mode situation.

[HexMachina]

With heroes where you don’t feel they are in much/any danger because of their powers, I think the best approach is to make the dangers be directed at others around them/the environment around them. It’s why a “normal” Lex Luthor can work a short a villain to Superman imo. “Do what I say or New York (why is it always New York?) gets it!” Works better than trying to make a villain somehow more powerful because that inevitably ends up in a boring clobbering fight at the end

[Rhom]

5 hours ago, The Mother of The Others said:

Hyper Pants!   It's less than a week away.  Who knew.  (Final Countdown by Europe.)  I hope the aliens were able to hide their british accents in this movie.   I'll try to be outraged for you Darth, but don't get your hopes up too high, plus if they did a comics accurate character wouldn't everyone be upset because people aren't enamored with this character and don't buy the comic all that often.  This is Feige's opportunity to help out the comic side of the company by adding some likeability to Carol that might carry over to the book.   Here's hoping the performance isn't wooden throughout, and that they're able to maintain dramatic tension , because if she can blast her way out of everything it might be tough for viewers to get worried about her and root for her.   

Man of Steel kind of lost me for that reason during the part when they were wrecking that small town and just kept wailing on each other and nobody got hurt except the Denny's.  It got to where it felt meaningless and numbing (on the first watch, then on rewatches i didn't mind it so much.)  Whereas Superman villains have to rely too heavily on kryptonite to level the playing field because it's his only weakness, it looks like the aliens here will give themselves a chance against Carol by hiding so she doesn't have anything much to hit because she blasts the bejesus out of anything in plain sight.  Is that a recipe for awesome, though?    We'll see....  in 5 days!  

1). You rewatched Man of Steel?!!!?  I feel for you.

2). Similar to what @HelenaExMachina said, Kryptonite is a weakness for Superman sure... but his greatest weakness is his empathy for those around him.  Threaten those he loves or any random innocents and you can cripple Superman.  (Which is at least part of why MoS didn’t work.  They missed that crucial detail of his character.)

[HexMachina]

1 minute ago, Rhom said:

1). You rewatched Man of Steel?!!!?  I feel for you.

2). Similar to what @HelenaExMachina said, Kryptonite is a weakness for Superman sure... but his greatest weakness is his empathy for those around him.  Threaten those he loves or any random innocents and you can cripple Superman.  (Which is at least part of why MoS didn’t work.  They missed that crucial detail of his character.)

I was admittedly thinking of Reeve as Superman, which is what I watched a lot of growing up (mostly because it was on channel five nearly every week...)

[briantw]

1 hour ago, HelenaExMachina said:

With heroes where you don’t feel they are in much/any danger because of their powers, I think the best approach is to make the dangers be directed at others around them/the environment around them. It’s why a “normal” Lex Luthor can work a short a villain to Superman imo. “Do what I say or New York (why is it always New York?) gets it!” Works better than trying to make a villain somehow more powerful because that inevitably ends up in a boring clobbering fight at the end

I know Spider-Man is by no means invulnerable, but this is the route that they've effectively been going with him for years.  His main weakness is the people he cares about and almost every Spidey movie/show and even the recent PS4 game have worked that angle to varying degrees of success.  

Perhaps part of the problem with some other strong heroes is that their supporting casts aren't quite as likable as Spidey's tends to be.  Like, when's the last time you gave a shit about Lois Lane?  Batman has similar issues in that he's such an asshole that he doesn't have a lot of close friends, and most of the ones who are actually able to put up with him are other heroes who can take care of themselves.

[Darth Richard II]

Uh, the new ms marvel is super popular and her comics sell great. Not sure what your getting at.

[HexMachina]

3 hours ago, briantw said:

I know Spider-Man is by no means invulnerable, but this is the route that they've effectively been going with him for years.  His main weakness is the people he cares about and almost every Spidey movie/show and even the recent PS4 game have worked that angle to varying degrees of success.  

Perhaps part of the problem with some other strong heroes is that their supporting casts aren't quite as likable as Spidey's tends to be.  Like, when's the last time you gave a shit about Lois Lane?  Batman has similar issues in that he's such an asshole that he doesn't have a lot of close friends, and most of the ones who are actually able to put up with him are other heroes who can take care of themselves.

Yes, Spiderman is another good example! Like the train scene in Spiderman 2, or whenever Aunt May is endangered, or MJ, or the parade day scene in the first film. (I love those two films. Must see if they are available on Netflix).

The new Spiderman films also manage to do this well and it's probably why I enjoy them more than most marvel films.

I would also say that a strong supporting cast isn't necessary (though both of those Spidey films have Great supporting cast). As long as you can buy into the hero giving two shots. Which Cavill's Supes I just don't. At all. All the emotion of a cacti

[The Anti-Targ]

Either some people in the biz are horribly overestimating Captain Marvel's opening weekend projections or the MRA snowflakery is actually helping with ticket sales. Boxoffice Mojo is saying ticket sales tracking is about $140 million for opening weekend. If that's true then that will be the best opening weekend for a solo Marvel character who has not appeared in a previous movie. Black Panther debuted in Civil War, so he got a leg up for his first outing.

Naturally the make or break for a blockbuster movie will be the 2nd weekend drop. A drop of around 55% will be fine. A drop over 60% will be not good, but could still project out to a good total with a $140 million start. 

[Darth Richard II]

OK, so, now that I am more awake, I was referring to this Ms Marvel.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamala_Khan

And if you don't think introducing her to the MCU is going to start a shitstorm from the alt right trolls, well, I want whatever drugs you are taking.