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Risto

Discussing Sansa XXXV: Queens of Ice and Fire

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10 hours ago, Lady Ren said:

Sansa was brilliant throughout this episode and I just loved her. Her fashion, her words, the way she carried herself. 

This episode she was good, yes. 

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I wondering--did anyone notice how in Season six Theon was the first consensual physical contact she probably had in years (when they hugged to keep warm)?


It shows a lot about their relationship and why they're so close now and had such a touching reunion.

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6 minutes ago, Pandean said:

I wondering--did anyone notice how in Season six Theon was the first consensual physical contact she probably had in years (when they hugged to keep warm)?

Yes, she saved him, but Theon did so unspeakable things to Winterfell that I cannot really see how she can forgive him. 

I would hate him forever. Having killed Luwin, Ser Rodrik and so on. 

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1 minute ago, Kajjo said:

Yes, she saved him, but Theon did so unspeakable things to Winterfell that I cannot really see how she can forgive him. 

I would hate him forever. Having killed Luwin, Ser Rodrik and so on. 

 Does Sansa even know that Theon personally killed Ser Rodrik?  Technically, Theon did not kill Luwin; though he did murder two little boys.  We don't know if Sansa knows that, either (I can't remember if Theon told her, or just said that he didn't kill her brothers).  Possibly all the servants/castle-folk who witnessed Ser Rodrik's brutal execution are dead; and as far as we know, Bran hasn't discussed Theon's brief reign of terror with Sansa.  And although Theon did terrible things at Winterfell; Sansa didn't personally witness his depredations; and the knowledge without the personal memory might not be enough to break the bond that was forged between them through mutual suffering in Ramsay's hands and then their desperate flight (where they nearly died).  Theon risked his life to save Sansa, which no one since her father has done (more than her honorable brother, or Tyrion, or Sandor or her 'friend' Margaery or Littlefinger); and I think that will always outweigh Theon's sins as far as Sansa is concerned.

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1 minute ago, Raksha 2014 said:

Does Sansa even know that Theon personally killed Ser Rodrik

I assume she does. She knows he captured Winterfell and she knows that this capture led to all the deaths. And she has talked to Brana lot, even if they haven't shown it to us. 

My guess is, we have to assume the characters talk with each other since months and we simply do not see every conversation. 

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17 hours ago, Raksha 2014 said:

I noticed that Jon told Daenerys of his true parentage before telling Arya and Sansa, his remaining family (Bran of course, already knowing).  Isn't that a sign that Jon is more concerned with Daenerys and her feelings than he is about what his sister/cousins and the North might think?

Well, since when are Jon and Sansa sharing information? In any case, Daenerys looked for him at the crypts and inquired about Lyanna. Jon may have not planned to tell her, but how is he not telling her Rhaegar didn't rape Lyanna?

As for Northern independence, yes, Sansa wants that. But more importantly, the Northern lords want that and the Starks have no troops of their own. If the Starks tell the rest of the Northerner aristocracy they have to bend the knee to Daenerys and the lords tell them they've chosen to replace Sansa or Jon with Lyanna Mormont, that's it. The Starks have no hard power whatsoever.

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Am I the only one dissappointed that there was no Sansa - The Hound reunion? It seems like the show had forgotten that those two also had history and acts like only Hound - Arya and Tyrion - Sansa bonds existed.

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49 minutes ago, Tianzi said:

Am I the only one dissappointed that there was no Sansa - The Hound reunion? It seems like the show had forgotten that those two also had history and acts like only Hound - Arya and Tyrion - Sansa bonds existed.

They don't have that much of a connection in the show. Book Sansa has a crush on Sandor. Show Sansa seems to have filed her relation ship with Show Sandor under the "Ugly shit that happened long ago in King's Landing" folder

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Raksha 2014 said:

 Does Sansa even know that Theon personally killed Ser Rodrik?  

Yes, she does.  Theon says it at least once.  The time I'm remembering is when he is leaving her in the woods with Pod and Brienne and listing some of his many sins.  

1 hour ago, Tianzi said:

Am I the only one dissappointed that there was no Sansa - The Hound reunion? It seems like the show had forgotten that those two also had history and acts like only Hound - Arya and Tyrion - Sansa bonds existed.

I'm definitely disappointed!  They had quite a bit of important contact in the first 2 seasons.  I'm still hoping there will be some interactions to come (I think both of them will survive episode 3), even if their initial reunion was apparently off screen. 

Edited by Red Dragon10

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1 hour ago, Tianzi said:

Am I the only one dissappointed that there was no Sansa - The Hound reunion? It seems like the show had forgotten that those two also had history and acts like only Hound - Arya and Tyrion - Sansa bonds existed.

I assume they will meet again either during the battle or after the battle, since he has to live until Clegainbowl and she is definitely positioned to live to rule the North

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I love that Sansa decided to be outside with the soldiers and common folk, eating the same things they do. Instead of being inside in front of the warm fire, guzzling down wine or enjoying a better meal. Such a Ned thing to do IMO.

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Before the scene: The North is part of the Seven Kingdoms because the Dummy King bent the knee for nothing after already having secured the aid of Dany.

After the scene: The North is part of the Seven Kingdoms, but there is a question about its position after the war because Sansa took advantage of Dany trying to run through the motions of girl talk to forge a friendship where none is needed.

To me, Sansa and Dany conversation was the first real scene that we saw the new and improved wise Sansa. Show producers have been selling her as such for a while, but she took Dany to school right there.

Now we have a question about The North back in the table and the cost to Sansa was - what? A missed opportunity to make nice and kiss ass.

Remember what Catelyn told Robb about his bannermen: they are not your friends. Sansa seemed very adult and poised and Dany is still trying to get by by first batting her eye lashes and then, if that does not work dracarys.

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6 hours ago, Mystical said:

I love that Sansa decided to be outside with the soldiers and common folk, eating the same things they do. Instead of being inside in front of the warm fire, guzzling down wine or enjoying a better meal. Such a Ned thing to do IMO.

That one was so beautiful. She and Theon, forever connected by the evil they escaped and won, I really like that she is outside. I understand that she won't fight, but there is something of "people's princess" in that scene that I really admire.

7 hours ago, Tianzi said:

Am I the only one dissappointed that there was no Sansa - The Hound reunion? It seems like the show had forgotten that those two also had history and acts like only Hound - Arya and Tyrion - Sansa bonds existed.

Simply, the dynamic is not the same as in the books. Martin tried to make it a case with "Blackwater" episode and "You won't hurt me" line (which I thought worked marvelously for the show characters) but it is not the same.

 

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8 hours ago, Risto said:

Simply, the dynamic is not the same as in the books. Martin tried to make it a case with "Blackwater" episode and "You won't hurt me" line (which I thought worked marvelously for the show characters) but it is not the same.

While true, I honestly thought D&D were going to have a little scene with Sandor saying 'Bird's not so little anymore.' Knowing how much they love their callbacks. I was baffled that they didn't do that.

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15 hours ago, Pies are coming said:

They don't have that much of a connection in the show. Book Sansa has a crush on Sandor. Show Sansa seems to have filed her relation ship with Show Sandor under the "Ugly shit that happened long ago in King's Landing" folder

Sansa seems to remember most of what happened in the KL very well (as everyone else apparently lost their brains, she's the only person who remembers Cersei isn't to be trusted), and even with the different relationship with the Hound than in the books, he still was the first person to show her friendship in KL, and she still was the first person to bring humanity from him in the show. So it's still jarring.

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16 hours ago, Tianzi said:

Am I the only one dissappointed that there was no Sansa - The Hound reunion? It seems like the show had forgotten that those two also had history and acts like only Hound - Arya and Tyrion - Sansa bonds existed.

Yes, but then I think the showrunners would screw it up somehow so I'm also partially relieved.

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Am I the only one who thought there was something romantic between Sansa and Theon? At first, the tearful reunion I interpreted as a brother/sister thing, but then they're smiling at each other in the middle of a musical montage showing a bunch of other couples. It seemed like there was something going on there - and it would explain why they had a more emotional reunion than anyone in episode 1 (not that I don't think the other reunions *should* have been more emotional).

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21 minutes ago, Dragonglass Order said:

Am I the only one who thought there was something romantic between Sansa and Theon

Well, maybe you are. I certainly do not buy into a Sansa-Theon romance.

The two are connected by both having been tortured by Ramsay. They escaped together, survived together and both still carry theirs scars from this horrible time. Theon has more than one circle of redemption and Sansa and Theon grew up together at Winterfell.

I think, she is just happy to see someone who understands her physical and emotional scars and she is glad, Theon finally decided to fight for Winterfell.

On then other, yes, Theon is one man who cannot hurt or abuse her sexually anymore. Any feelings would be very safe. He lost testicles and balls. 

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20 hours ago, Mystical said:

I love that Sansa decided to be outside with the soldiers and common folk, eating the same things they do. Instead of being inside in front of the warm fire, guzzling down wine or enjoying a better meal. Such a Ned thing to do IMO.

What a leader does. Sansa at the start of this show would never have understood why she needed to befriend people who smelt of the grime and dirt of toil but now she understands they toil for her

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5 hours ago, Dragonglass Order said:

Am I the only one who thought there was something romantic between Sansa and Theon? At first, the tearful reunion I interpreted as a brother/sister thing, but then they're smiling at each other in the middle of a musical montage showing a bunch of other couples. It seemed like there was something going on there - and it would explain why they had a more emotional reunion than anyone in episode 1 (not that I don't think the other reunions *should* have been more emotional).

I got a sense of that too. So what if he can't give her an heir? Dany is supposedly barren but that wouldn't stop her from taking the IT. 

Regardless of whether they have romantic feelings, they share a deep bond that won't be easily broken. He's confessed his worst sins and she loves him anyway, even if that love simply turns out to be a sister's love for a foster brother. 

Other than Sandor, he's the only man who ever willingly stuck his neck out for her. Theon did it knowing his life was on the line. Littlefinger doesn't count--she was just a pawn in his manipulations. 

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