Jump to content
Lady Fevre Dream

Rant and Rave Without Repercussion End of The World Edition [Spoilers]

Recommended Posts

2 minutes ago, Orphalesion said:

Well, the WW came south before the Dragons were born in both show and book, so in my opinion the dragons were created to counter balance the Night's King. And if they were going for a arc about Dany being the cause, then they would have had to acknowledge that and work that into the story.

Both Jon and Dnaenerys were shafted and it was a huge anticlimax to both their stories and the whole War for the Dawn story line.

Yeah I agree with you on most of that except there were a few  references to Dany's dragons enhancing magical abilities or magic in general so Dany could both be the counterpoint to the NightKing and in some part imbuing him with power

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Cas Stark said:

For me, they ruined the story in this episode.  There is now no purpose to Jon's ancestry in the story, the prophecy, Prince that was promised all that is moot.  Jon Snow hasn't won a battle in years or had a good idea in years, so if he sits the IT, why?  If he dies fighting Cersei, even worse, he's a total loser, might as well have been killed in his crib.  Dany?  All her magic again pointless.  If she wins, its dragons and she did nothing but get her allies killed fighting the NK, if she loses, again, her whole story pointless to lose to a dumb thug like Cersei Lannister.  So, I can't see how the show comes back from this error in how they handled the NK defeat.

I don t even understand how someone can say they are king/queen at this point. Who supports them?

Cersei is suported by a some lannisters, ironborn and mercenaries. Danny and jon are suported by the north, some vale soldiers and some unsulied.

How or why should the 7 kingdoms support any of them? They haven t tried to win them over… Once they seat their ass on the IT all other regions will automatically recognize them? They haven t talked to other regions. There have been no negotiations...

Are people going to sudenly chose danny because she has 2 dragons? Jon because he says he his a targ? Cersei because nobody cares what she does? I don t even understand how is the relationship between jon and danny at this point...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought of something positive to come from all this.
Tonight's episode made me appreciate Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings movies. I always really hated them and thought they trampled on a lot of Tlkien's themes.
But now I realize they were a pretty good adaption. They kept most of the characters and arcs intact as far as possible within the confines of three Hollywood Movies...

......and they didn't hand over the Ring to Merry and Pippin at the last minute to finish the quest.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Orphalesion said:

I thought of something positive to come from all this.
Tonight's episode made me appreciate Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings movies. I always really hated them and thought they trampled on a lot of Tlkien's themes.
But now I realize they were a pretty good adaption. They kept most of the characters and arcs intact as far as possible within the confines of three Hollywood Movies...

......and they didn't hand over the Ring to Merry and Pippin at the last minute to finish the quest.

Are you saying one of the most sucessful trilogies in recent history didn t subvert people's expectations? How dare you!

And don t Forget, there wasn t a fucking prophecy about who would destroy the ring like there is in asoiaf...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Arya should have dived off the battlements while Theon was doing his suicide charge. At least then Theons death wouldnt have felt pointless and there'd be a little more believability in how Arya snuck up on the Night King. But then I guess we can't get the ultimate stare down between Bran and the Night King.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've tried to let go of my anger at the show and enjoy it for what it is. After all the show is nothing more than really expensive fan fiction. 

I was really annoyed that there wasn't more dragon fire. I mean they know the NK can raise the dead and the only way to counteract that is to burn the bodies.  I don't care that they couldn't see. They had a general idea of where the army of the dead was so burn that shit to the ground. Dany has had no problem killing people with dragon fire before so why not set Drogon to fully automatic and let him rip! They could see at ground level they could have landed to the rear burn as much as they could before the wights could counterattack. Same for the castle walls. Where was the boiling oil that could then be set ablaze? Shoot flaming arrows into the piles of the dead to try to set them on fire.  I guess what I am saying is more fire!

I was very happy with Arya taking down the NK. I know people think it is anticlimactic, but the only thing that could take him down was Valyrian steel. No one was going to get him in open battle. After all the build up of it will be Jon (or Daenerys or maybe even Jamie) Arya was the one. Also, if you want a twist, having a battle go from "we are all doomed," to "holy hell we won!?! in two seconds" is a good one. I mean Jon did say during the battle planning that if they could take out the NK the rest would follow. And that is exactly what happened. The NK got too cocky, he got caught monologuing (or in this case staring at Bran) and left himself open.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

No.  Book Euron will always suck, he is a cartoonishly evil dumb superficial character.  So, the battle we've been waiting for is over in a single episode, but the post script scouring of the shire will last 3 episodes and kill off more main characters than the main battle did?  Yeah, whatever.  The NK death being so poorly done really ruins the entire final season, and I don't see how they redeem things, especially since Cersei should already be dead,  not a formidable enemy that it takes 1/2 a season to defeat.

Ok.

Let me put it to you like this.

Daenerys is only Daenerys' first name. Her second/middle name is Stormborn. Her full, formal name is Daenerys Stormborn of the House Targaryen. She was born during a horrific, massively destructive storm. Euron has had his eyes on Daenerys for a while now...in both the show and the books. What does Euron call himself? Crow's Eye is what the Ironborn refer to him as but Euron calls himself The Last Storm

Stormborn vs. The Last Storm

Not only that. There's:

  • the story of how Storm's End came to be...how a goddess fell in love with mortals and defended them from gods who commanded storms. It sounds familiar because it's tied to the religion of the Ironborn. The drowned god, the storm god, etc.
  • Patchface -- the jester of the Baratheon household -- is introduced on Dragonstone (Dany's birthplace) making cryptic, not-very-funny-at-all riddles and songs about what lies underneath the sea. And he continues to do so.
  • "Dead in the water..."
  • On his way to White Harbor, Davos stops by on the Sisters islands. He hears rumors and stories of mermen and ordinary people who live on solid ground with webbed fingers and feet. The Ironborn, and the Greyjoys specifically, are linked to the deep blue seas and the beasts that lie underneath.
  • Euron has travelled to Valyria (the ancestral homeland of Dany's people) and Asshai (a place Quaithe has always insisted Dany visit) and has picked up a bunch of souvenirs and tools. There's the dragonbinder but then there's also armor made up of Valyrian steel.
  • The visions of Aeron and Moqorro of Euron becoming or being a monster. Moqorro specifically interprets his prophecies and calls Euron out as Daenerys' greatest threat.
  • Euron is a slaver and a lover of magic. Daenerys hates both.
  • Euron stole Victarion's wife and she paid for it in the end with her life. Victarion wants to steal Euron's wife-to-be...will Dany pay for it with her life as well.

There's delusion, there's ignorance and then there's willful idiocy based on dislike of one particular character or story.

If you really cannot see that 1) Euron been specifically set up to be an powerful antagonist to Dany (he's a big threat to Bran, Cersei, the Tyrells, Samwell, Theon and Asha too but that's for a different thread) and 2) he has a good chance of curbstomping her and everyone else still alive at that point...then I don't know what to say to you.

Edited by Jabar of House Titan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

snipped....

There's delusion and then there's willful idiocy. If you really cannot see that 1) Euron been specifically set up to be an powerful antagonist to Dany (he's a big threat to Bran, Cersei, the Tyrells, Sam, Theon and Asha too but that's for a different thread) and 2) he has a good chance of curbstomping her and everyone else still alive at that point...then I don't know what to say to you.

Oh I do see it, I just think it sucks because I find his character to be superficial and cartoonish.  I have said all along he's only in the show because whatever he does in the books is too important to cut or give to another character.   None of that changes my feeling that the character is out of place in the story, too garishly evil.

 

Edited by Cas Stark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone else was confused almost the whole episode? I had pretty much a hard time identifying the characters and especially the places they were at. Things I didn't like:

- what's up with Ghost and Jon's dragon???? Are they dead, or alive?? Also I honestly don't know if Gilly is alive because the wights in the crypts killed a young woman and I didn't see Gilly afterwards but maybe I just overlooked her.

- all the dragons looked the same. Until some of them started to breath fire or until I saw the riders, I didn't even know if they were alive, or if it was the wight dragon.

- WTF was going on with Mel? So she came literally out of nowhere (in fact from the direction where the wights were), she lighted up Dothraki swords which burned out literally a minute later. Then she rides to the castle like it's a no big deal. She lights up the trenches but it stops the wights for like 3 minutes. Mel really proved useful, right? And eventually she walks out and takes off her ruby because reasons. 

- Davos is supposed to make fire signals but he walks out of the walls to greet Mel. Makes sense.

- Jon and Dany and their dragons being completely lost in the ice storm. How about flying back to Winterfell? Also it seemed like Drogon made like 6 fire breaths in total. 

- why the hell did Dany and Drogon take so much freaking time to lift from the ground after they saved Jon?

- everyone is overwhelmed by wights but they have tons of time to look up and watch dragons and other stuff

- I hate how easy it was to kill wights. It took just one tiny slash. Wasn't it almost impossible to kill the wight that got alive in Castle Black in S1 or so?

- White Walkers and their super ice spears have the role of mere audience.

- I hate so much how easy it was to kill the NK.

- all the deaths (maybe but Lyanna Mormont and maybe but Theon) didn't feel very emotional.

- I didn't get the part of Arya and wights in library at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Nerevanin said:

Anyone else was confused almost the whole episode? I had pretty much a hard time identifying the characters and especially the places they were at.

I got a headache part way through due to all the fighting noise and dark/fire lit/hectic visuals, does that count? 80 minutes is just to long for an (almost) continuous battle scene...

Edited by Orphalesion

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Glorious scenes and grave stupidity

Let us start with the good things, that has helped us through weak stories for seasons:

The music, the actors, well setup scenes, emotional moments and occassional memorable dialogues. We had it all this episode - The drums in the opening scene, the Dothraki flame charge with the lights fading, fine moments with Sansa and Tyrion, the zombie bookclub at the brink of comedy, airfights, Alfie Allen remarkable as always and much more.

 

And we had the usual dumb plot ideas.

No 1 - The Villain cliche´s

a) The villain boss is the one to kill the good guy. As in James Bond movies. As Voldemort and Harry Potter. Why not simply bury bran under a mountain of undead corpses or under the Ice dragon?

b) When the main villain dies, then all his minions and magic fall to dust. Like the Mother of Borgs. Like Sauron and the Black Gate of Mordor.  I always wondered why the orks did not continue fighting, I mean they had still the stronger numbers and they liked to kill menflesh, right?

Other complaints:

- So the NK could be killed simply by Valyrian steel? Any crossbow with a Valyrian bolt could have done the same? (not that I believe in Valryian bolts).

- And Super-Arya was the one to do this. I would pay good money to see a cage fight between Captain Marvel, Wonder Woman, Arya, Mystique and Xena.

- Melisandre went to Volantis  - and came back with nothing more than a spell how to ignite swords (that the should had known long before)?

- And sent the flaming Dothraki into the maximal idiotic charge? It was common knowledge that the NK enlists defeated enemys into his ranks. An isolated charge didnt made sense. An isolated ANYTHING didnt made sense. Fight combined or retreat, that is all.

 

In the end the Episode was fine, but the problem solution was ... (no comment)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This episode has me very conflicted.

As a fan of the HBO show for what it is(ENTERTAINMENT), To have Arya be the one to deliver the Deathblow to the NK, that singular moment is one for TV history, very unexpected and a triumph for one of the most beloved characters in TV history.

 

But as a fan of the ASOIAF Lore and Histories, (for me the reason why GOT is several notches above any other Fantasy World) the disregard for TPTWP and AZOR AHAI and all of that with relation to the Long Night and the WW's the only way for the NK to die was with a flaming Longclaw into the Heart of the NK. No matter how predictable, no matter how cliche, The payoff of that moment on screen would've outweighed the Surprise of Arya.

 

Now it makes how GRRM Finishes his books  all the more important to the Lore and will now possibly set up a very strong and deep divide between ASOIAF Purists and GOT TV Fans. 

 

I hope this is just the ranting of someone without the whole of the stories of Episodes 4-6 but for now, the closing of the NK/ Azor Ahai thread are underwhelming.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, divica said:

I don t even understand how someone can say they are king/queen at this point. Who supports them?

Cersei is suported by a some lannisters, ironborn and mercenaries. Danny and jon are suported by the north, some vale soldiers and some unsulied.

How or why should the 7 kingdoms support any of them? They haven t tried to win them over… Once they seat their ass on the IT all other regions will automatically recognize them? They haven t talked to other regions. There have been no negotiations...

Are people going to sudenly chose danny because she has 2 dragons? Jon because he says he his a targ? Cersei because nobody cares what she does? I don t even understand how is the relationship between jon and danny at this point...

There are no Seven Kingdoms anymore. The Seven Kingdoms follow the same rules as the Night King. You haven't heard from any region since their leaders died.

Stormlands died when Stannis was killed.

Riverlands died when the Blackfish died and Edmure yielded.

Reach died when Olenna died

Dorne died when the Sand snakes were killed.

I just assume they work under the same magic as the Night King and everybody dropped dead when their leader died :dunno:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This may be weird but I honestly feel like I'm having a hard time coming to terms with this episode. It's like an extreme amount of disappointment and grief which is weird.

I just expected so much better and I don't understand what the hell we got instead. I hope to god the books aren't the same in this regard. At this point I don't feel like watching the rest of the show but I know I will because there are three episodes left.

 

Maybe I'm being overdramatic or caring too much, IDK. I just feel disappointed and let down. It's weird. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, LokisRaider said:

There are no Seven Kingdoms anymore. The Seven Kingdoms follow the same rules as the Night King. You haven't heard from any region since their leaders died.

Stormlands died when Stannis was killed.

Riverlands died when the Blackfish died and Edmure yielded.

Reach died when Olenna died

Dorne died when the Sand snakes were killed.

I just assume they work under the same magic as the Night King and everybody dropped dead when their leader died :dunno:

 

This is the best explanation I've read... Westeros is feeling awfully empty nowadays.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Pandean said:

This may be weird but I honestly feel like I'm having a hard time coming to terms with this episode. It's like an extreme amount of disappointment and grief which is weird.

I just expected so much better and I don't understand what the hell we got instead. I hope to god the books aren't the same in this regard. At this point I don't feel like watching the rest of the show but I know I will because there are three episodes left.

 

Maybe I'm being overdramatic or caring too much, IDK. I just feel disappointed and let down. It's weird. 

You're not alone, believe me. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Ice Queen said:

You're not alone, believe me. 

That's good to know. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I began lowering my standards after season 5 and once I let go of my expectations it was more enjoyable. Each season, however, I have to lower my standards more and yet they keep sliding under the bar. They are good at spectacle that I can just enjoy in the moment, but it does not hold up as a coherent or consistent story afterwards. It's the Chinese food of TV.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×