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So what does Jon Snow do now??

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On 4/29/2019 at 5:48 PM, AGS Martell said:

Whatever Jon does, I hope we don't get another invulnerable hero scene with him once they fight the Lannister army. I don't think I could stand watching him evade and kill 100 soldiers all by himself AGAIN

Lol you just witnessed Arya do just that, on a much larger scale. Doesn't get worse than that.

I mean R+L=J, all the build up of Jon being THE ONE to deal with the NK and the army of the dead, facing off with the NK twice, setting up this episode. In the end, all of that was for NOTHING. I'm speechless. Like, what was the Fckng POINT ? Arya of all people, makes no sense. She has her list, her story. It's like having Jon or Ser Davos kill Cersei, when we have had characters with much better motives and interactions with Cersei and KL like Tyrion, Arya, Sansa, Jamie. WHY ? In the end, none of Jons actions really mattered. Same could be said for pretty much every character except Arya. So does Arya get to steal the spotlight for every big moment ? Unliks the others at least Jon had his buildup with the dead, it all lead to this. And none of it mattered. And it's all over. What's his point now ? I wish they had killed him off sooner. Save us the pain. Him serving Dany, going against her, or whatever none of it really makes sense to what I have witnessed for 7 seasons. We have Cersei and the Mountain left, I bet Jon isn't going to kill either one. So in the end, he hasn't really killed a major villain. So what's his point ? He killed Ramsay only with Sansas help. NK wasn't his either. Come to think about it, never really did much without help from others. I don't want his arc to end with marrying Dany or sitting on the Throne. No matter how I look at it, this episode shit on his character as well. Killed him off even if he's alive.

They really F'D his character arc. The more I rethink this episode, the more headache I get.

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Posted (edited)

Well he'll probably ride Rhaegal or whatever it's killed like he did in the battle. I assume the North still has a decent amount of troops, so they'll be needed under his command as Warden of the North.

Alternatively he could also do absolutely nothing, as he's done most of the entirety of the show. What are his accomplishments really? All I can think of :

  1. Gets wildlings south and an in a truce with the Northerners, but this ends up being mostly inconsequential because there are so few left after the attack on Hardhome by the others.
  2. Defeats Boltons and avenges his brother, but this is mostly made possible thanks to the Vale, and the idiot fell for Ramsey's trick to get him to mad charge and almost get himself killed.
  3. Helps kill some wights using Rhaegal and demount the Night King during the Battle of Winterfell. 
Edited by GOTFanatic

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, King Jon Snow Stark said:

Recap it! Is that how Jon becomes king of the north in the books?

Right now in the books the Boltons control the North. There are various northern lords conspiring against them, we don't know their exact plan, but Lord Manderly has sent Davos to find Rickon on the isle of Skaggos, and has baked a Frey pie, feeding it to them.

As someone has mentioned, Robb sent out his will before his death legitimizing Jon and making him the heir, also disinheriting Sansa. No evidence this fits in with the current conspiracy.

Edited by longest night

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So is Northern independence still on the table, and does Jon support it? He doesnt have a murderous horde of undead to make him desperate enough to give Dany whatever she wants and he definitely doesn't care about that chair. So is he fighting for his people's sovereignty now, or what?

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4 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

So is Northern independence still on the table, and does Jon support it? He doesnt have a murderous horde of undead to make him desperate enough to give Dany whatever she wants and he definitely doesn't care about that chair. So is he fighting for his people's sovereignty now, or what?

Jon didn't really seem to care about northern independence. Nor has he ever cared.

There's no reason why what's left of the North and the Vale would not rally under the Targaryen banner now. 

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9 hours ago, Gianna Dorenberg said:

Lol you just witnessed Arya do just that, on a much larger scale. Doesn't get worse than that.

I mean R+L=J, all the build up of Jon being THE ONE to deal with the NK and the army of the dead, facing off with the NK twice, setting up this episode. In the end, all of that was for NOTHING. I'm speechless. Like, what was the Fckng POINT ? Arya of all people, makes no sense. She has her list, her story. It's like having Jon or Ser Davos kill Cersei, when we have had characters with much better motives and interactions with Cersei and KL like Tyrion, Arya, Sansa, Jamie. WHY ? In the end, none of Jons actions really mattered. Same could be said for pretty much every character except Arya. So does Arya get to steal the spotlight for every big moment ? Unliks the others at least Jon had his buildup with the dead, it all lead to this. And none of it mattered. And it's all over. What's his point now ? I wish they had killed him off sooner. Save us the pain. Him serving Dany, going against her, or whatever none of it really makes sense to what I have witnessed for 7 seasons. We have Cersei and the Mountain left, I bet Jon isn't going to kill either one. So in the end, he hasn't really killed a major villain. So what's his point ? He killed Ramsay only with Sansas help. NK wasn't his either. Come to think about it, never really did much without help from others. I don't want his arc to end with marrying Dany or sitting on the Throne. No matter how I look at it, this episode shit on his character as well. Killed him off even if he's alive.

They really F'D his character arc. The more I rethink this episode, the more headache I get.

yep I completely agree with all of this....seems like they picked arya because she closes 'many eyes' - I mean come on! WTF!  hmm we cant pick jon - too obvious - lets be super clever and look through the last seasons scripts.....who can we choose.....arya ...yep she closes brown eyes, green eyes and blue eyes - that's its bro! the NK has blue eyes - its got to be her.

I am speechless.  I will watch the rest of the show....but what a kick to the gut. and jon just screaming to the dragon at the end in defiance. that was so poor. I mean have him distract the WW generals to give more credence to Arya doing the deed. just so poor.  arya has her list. jon had the NK - or at least have more involvement. I think they were stuck with what to do with him tbh as they felt he needed to ride a dragon. I mean that could have been done so much better.

'In the final desperate hour, dany shoves dragon glass in jon chest, whilst in a passionate emrbrace, he turns into the Prince of the Dawn, sunlight shines from him, burns away the undead,  he mounts rhaegal to eberyones amazement and goes to battle the NK' this would have given meaning to the scene of the NK being created, etc.

yes so I am a hopeless romantic lol.

 

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10 hours ago, Gianna Dorenberg said:

In the end, none of Jons actions really mattered. 

...

They really F'D his character arc. The more I rethink this episode, the more headache I get.

While I agree that they've changed Jon's character for the worse (mostly to make others seem more intelligent (like, Sansa)), and he makes dumb things over and over again, I wouldn't say his actions didn't matter at all.

 

I was expecting a Jon vs NK epic duel, too, but after thinking it over, it totally made sense that it was Arya, who finished him.

Jon was trying to get close to the NK, but he avoided him actively. As Jaime said, if they can only beat the dead by killing the NK, why would he come close? And he didn't. He avoided every situation where he could have been hurt, he didn't face Jon, and even the WWs didn't participate in the battle, because they knew they could get killed by dragonglass.

If Jon went to the godswood, the NK wouldn't have duelled with him. There were plenty of zombies and WWs, he would have ordered them to fight. (Theon was no opponent for him...)

The only person who could have approached him without being noticed in time, was Arya, as she could move without noise, so neither the zombies nor the WWs noticed her (they were watching the NK, so couldn't see her). In the end, it made sense.

 

But what exactly did Jon do to defeat the NK?

1) He encouraged Arya to become a fighter. He gave her Needle, and that sword was the last connection she had to her home - and Jon. She came back because of him. She went to Winterfell (instead of Kings Landing) because of him.

2) Bran managed to cross the Wall because Sam led him through - Sam wouldn't have been alive if not for Jon. He escaped Craster's Keep when Jon attacked. Edd was the one who let him through at Castle Black - he is Jon's friend, too.

3) One can argue that if the NK stays north of the Wall, they wont beat him. They wouldn't have gotten close to him to kill him. And he could come through because Jon went there, and mostly because of Jon, Dany went there too (and lost a dragon).

4) And he brought an army that more or less managed to keep up fighting until the NK went to Bran (so they had a chance to kill him).

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8 hours ago, Arya Targaryen said:

I was expecting a Jon vs NK epic duel, too, but after thinking it over, it totally made sense that it was Arya, who finished him.

THE WHOLE FUCKING POINT OF THE AZOR AHAI PROPHECY IS A EPIC DUEL OF ICE AND FIRE! WHAT IS EVEN THE POINT OF THE FUCKING TITLE IF THEY DON'T HAVE THE FIRE ELEMENT AGAINST THE ICE??????????????? WHAT IS THE POINT OF THE PROPHECY IF ANYONE COULD BE THE PRINCE WHO WAS PROMISED? 

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People forget all the freaking build up not only from the show but from the books. We at the literally first season LITERALLY, are told about the prophecy the ONLY prophecy who goes by many names but it's the same, the prince who was promissed, the Azor Ahai, the hero of the long night. We hear about how special some bloods are with the warging of the starks and the born of dragons with Dany. We had all this shit for 7 seasons and people are like "it doesn't matter, Jon beating the NK would be too obvious" DUDE, being obvious don't automatically make it bad, we need to get rid of this horrible thinking of "if it suprised me it was good". Arya killing the NK was the WORST decision the series could make because it makes all the work that was put together to the shitter.

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In the previews we see Jon and Davos set out on horse back. So... Where is he going!? Ghost isn't with him either, and he's not with Dany. I wouldn't be surprised if he's going to treat with cersie. Something absolutely moronic like that. He really serves no purpose now. His arch was the white walkers and the long nite. Well the nite is over and full of trash. 

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Might as well kill him off now and then they can say surprise surprise this is just like when Ned Stark died - it's not. Oh I'm getting bitter now :angry:

Good idea would be to have him survive a wildfire attack from Cersei (or some other fire) to prove that he is a dragon of the Targ variety - have all of his clothes burnt off like in the Dany scene in series 1. Actually, that would be a great end to the whole TV show - everything burning, all characters die and then as the flames die down... Jon emerges from the smoke and ash, stark naked .. fade to black. The end.

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1 hour ago, ramla said:

In the previews we see Jon and Davos set out on horse back. So... Where is he going!? Ghost isn't with him either, and he's not with Dany. I wouldn't be surprised if he's going to treat with cersie. Something absolutely moronic like that. He really serves no purpose now. His arch was the white walkers and the long nite. Well the nite is over and full of trash. 

Other than the personal damage to my reputation (:lmao:) since I predicted Jon to be king at series end, at this point it would be all together fitting that he and Davos ride south, treat with Cersei, she has Jon's head chopped off like Eddard and Davos thrown into jail or something. 

I would DIE laughing at this point.......

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Fighting for his Queen Dany as Warden of the North. He already said that in that meeting with Cersei.

 

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10 minutes ago, Erkan12 said:

Fighting for his Queen Dany as Warden of the North. He already said that in that meeting with Cersei.

 

There's no resolution with his character then. He's spent 7 seasons fighting the wights and the WW's only to become Grey Worm. Its likely either him or dany dies. Probably from a bolt thru a dragon. Its just about telegraphed at this point. 

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2 hours ago, Ser Loras The Gay said:

People forget all the freaking build up not only from the show but from the books. We at the literally first season LITERALLY, are told about the prophecy the ONLY prophecy who goes by many names but it's the same, the prince who was promissed, the Azor Ahai, the hero of the long night. We hear about how special some bloods are with the warging of the starks and the born of dragons with Dany. We had all this shit for 7 seasons and people are like "it doesn't matter, Jon beating the NK would be too obvious" DUDE, being obvious don't automatically make it bad, we need to get rid of this horrible thinking of "if it suprised me it was good". Arya killing the NK was the WORST decision the series could make because it makes all the work that was put together to the shitter.

Well put.

 

Not everything has to be about twists and turns.

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1 minute ago, ramla said:

There's no resolution with his character then. He's spent 7 seasons fighting the wights and the WW's only to become Grey Worm. Its likely either him or dany dies. Probably from a bolt thru a dragon. Its just about telegraphed at this point. 

Someone should convince him otherwise if he is going to take the Iron Throne, Samwell tried but he didn't listen, Davos can persuade Jon but Davos doesn't know yet, Sansa can but she doesn't know as well.

Also Jon is like Ned, once he gave his word, he wouldn't turn back from it.

Dany should take responsibility and propose a marriage, but I doubt she would want to share the power, she already appointed Jon as Warden of the North, though that was before Jon said he was the son of Rhaegar iirc, so we need to see what Dany's current view is about Jon's position.

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16 hours ago, longest night said:

Just repeat this phrase.

Dan and Dave Snoked the Night King.

Not really, Snoke was a chump and got killed like one, the Night King really wasn't but got taken out like one all the same.

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