MCUniverse: Phase Four and Beyond(er) **maybe spoilers**

[PyroclasticFlow]

Last thread locked, just wanted to kick around some thoughts/ideas on the future of the MCU. 

Ever since Disney bought Fox last month, I was thinking about who the next big bad is gonna be, moving through the next couple of phases. My final two that I feel make the most sense are Galactus and Dr Doom. 

Also, the writers at Marvel have excelled at dropping Easter eggs throughout the films thus far, and I’m psyched to see what they have in store with the expanded roster that FF and X-Men give them. Here are a few that I think are great (not my ideas, give Comics Explained channel on YouTube credit):

Upcoming Black Widow movie - Natasha makes a passing reference about working with a black ops team, maybe a Team X, mentions James Howlett and/or Victor Creed (movie is supposedly taking place before she joins SHIELD)

Black Panther 2 - T’Challa opens Wakanda to the  world, Fury tasks Wakandans with reverse-engineering Thanos’ ship, maybe jumpstarting SWORD, Shuri works on said ship and meets a certain brilliant mind in Reed Richards

Dr Strange 2 - Butterfree Crumplesnaps is doing mystical things, maybe traveling certain dimensions and such, and piques the interest of a very powerful cosmic entity who follows him back to the present MCU -or- Strange hears of another powerful mystic and travels to the hermit nation he rules 

What do you think?

 

 

[Rhom]

I like the idea I saw someone else post about Doom.  He’s Sokovian now... so there’s one motivation.  He got snapped... and when he came back, his family was dead.  He discovers the Avengers reversed the snap after five years on purpose.  He’d just about trump Kilmonger on having justification for his villainy.

[Darth Richard II]

I wouldn't expect any X-men characters that have been already portrayed for a good 5 years minimum.

Heck I wouldn't even expect a big bad or any concluding film for phase 4 at this point.

[ants]

I'd hope they'd almost entirely keep the MCU and X-men separate.  For a movie franchise, MCU has so many threads already.  The X-men with the stories about prejudice and persistence could easily have a full world to itself.  Why complicate things by merging and having less combined films when in any non-comics minds the two worlds are separate? 

[Morpheus]

7 hours ago, Darth Richard II said:

I wouldn't expect any X-men characters that have been already portrayed for a good 5 years minimum.

I fully expect a new X-Men to be announced for 2022 or 23. There is no way Marvel puts them on a shelf, they finally have some of their best known characters back, they are going to use them, they don’t care about what FOX did or how big a disaster Dark Phoenix will be, I’d bet they already have shortlists for casting of roles like Wolverine and Storm.

[The Mother of The Others]

Dr. Strange would be the first to bump heads with cosmic entities as he explores dimensions.  So that seems like a good time to roll the dice on whether audiences will embrace personifications like Death.   But then people were saying that Infinity War was a good opportunity for that too.   I hope they go huge with Strange's arc and not the Antman route of skippable small potatoes.   Gimme amaze realms, not Inception II graphics.  

 Also, if mutants need a reason for why they weren't there before but they are here now, the dusting & snapping back of half the population was like being slapped around by magic....maybe that activated mutant genes of a sort we don't see from regular evolution?!

If cosmic phase is doing more movies in space than on Earth soon, that'd argue for Galactus over Doom, but with galactus getting a slowwwww buildup like Thanos had, so there's lots of time for Kang and alien wars and surfer and Adam and Celestials.  Maybe Reed works on some of the tech projects that make us a player in space without the Fantastics even needing to happen yet, and while everyone is looking up at the stars Doom can pickpocket them and arise as a threat at home.

[sifth]

Not gona lie, I'm not really looking forward to phase 4 and beyond at this point. GotG vol 3 is literally the only thing they're making right now that has my interest.

[Heartofice]

I’m not looking forward to phase 4, and it’s probably due to the lack of interesting characters from this point on.

If they lead with Carol, Stephen Strange and Black Panther as a core team then there will be a charisma black hole in the MCU far worse than any infinity stone. Nothing that’s been suggested about future movies has really excited me yet.

[HexMachina]

37 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

I’m not looking forward to phase 4, and it’s probably due to the lack of interesting characters from this point on.

If they lead with Carol, Stephen Strange and Black Panther as a core team then there will be a charisma black hole in the MCU far worse than any infinity stone. Nothing that’s been suggested about future movies has really excited me yet.

I could have said the same thing at the start of the MCU. Did you really watch Thor, Iron Man or Hulk and think “Yes, yes, charisma overload, these guys can lead a 20 movie franchise!” They each of them had their appeal and quirks but weren’t at the stage of “yep, golden, can absolutely dominate this franchise.” I see the current crop in the same field. They are sufficiently enjoyable and compelling at the moment that i want to see more, some more than others of course, but they have time to grow into their roles as the previous characters did

[Heartofice]

13 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

I could have said the same thing at the start of the MCU. Did you really watch Thor, Iron Man or Hulk and think “Yes, yes, charisma overload, these guys can lead a 20 movie franchise!” They each of them had their appeal and quirks but weren’t at the stage of “yep, golden, can absolutely dominate this franchise.” I see the current crop in the same field. They are sufficiently enjoyable and compelling at the moment that i want to see more, some more than others of course, but they have time to grow into their roles as the previous characters did

There is a difference. Thor and Tony Stark and Cap America  all had personalities and were watchable whatever the quality of the movie. Its hard to say if Black Panther or Cap Marvel have an personalities right now as they haven't displayed them in the movies they have been in.  Stephen Strange is a poor mans Tony Stark every day of the year.

They do have Ant Man and Spidey in the personality stakes, so hopefully they will find some sort of balance there, but I am not optimistic right now.

[HexMachina]

4 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

There is a difference. Thor and Tony Stark and Cap America  all had personalities and were watchable whatever the quality of the movie. Its hard to say if Black Panther or Cap Marvel have an personalities right now as they haven't displayed them in the movies they have been in.  Stephen Strange is a poor mans Tony Stark every day of the year.

They do have Ant Man and Spidey in the personality stakes, so hopefully they will find some sort of balance there, but I am not optimistic right now.

To each their own i suppose but CM and BP both had plenty of personality in their movies, imo, and plenty of scope for growth. Carol was hindered slightly in personality by the amnesia, but even so she  seemed plenty charismatic enough for me. Strong and fierce but with a kind, caring compassionate side which persists even after years after brainwashing and seeing strange shit in space.

I found Strange bland in his solo movie too, although i’ve heard some people have improved the feelings toward him after Avengers.

No disagreement on Spiderman, Homecoming was such a delight as a film and Holland is a gem. Ant Man is decent as a character because of Paul Rudd’s portrayal but both movies have been forgettable mediocrities, and that is being generous. I don’t feel he isncompelling enough to get me to tune in to another

[BigFatCoward]

27 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

To each their own i suppose but CM and BP both had plenty of personality in their movies, imo, and plenty of scope for growth. Carol was hindered slightly in personality by the amnesia, but even so she  seemed plenty charismatic enough for me. Strong and fierce but with a kind, caring compassionate side which persists even after years after brainwashing and seeing strange shit in space.

I found Strange bland in his solo movie too, although i’ve heard some people have improved the feelings toward him after Avengers.

No disagreement on Spiderman, Homecoming was such a delight as a film and Holland is a gem. Ant Man is decent as a character because of Paul Rudd’s portrayal but both movies have been forgettable mediocrities, and that is being generous. I don’t feel he isncompelling enough to get me to tune in to another

I find it hard to tell if BP had charisma, as killmonger had so much he was almost overwhelmed in that regard. 

[red snow]

On 5/3/2019 at 2:38 AM, Rhom said:

I like the idea I saw someone else post about Doom.  He’s Sokovian now... so there’s one motivation.  He got snapped... and when he came back, his family was dead.  He discovers the Avengers reversed the snap after five years on purpose.  He’d just about trump Kilmonger on having justification for his villainy.

I think i threw that one out when we were discussing all the collateral deaths from reversing the snap that the avengers didn't consider. Like you say his actions would be pretty justifiable.

I like the additions upthread, particularly with dr strange noticing some new mystical tampering at the end of his film. Actually what could make Doom even more of a natural foe eould be if his powers are somehow acquired from the avengers. Eg he maybe takes his innate magic and enhances it via stealing (or maybe even better being an acolyte) off strange. And his famous doombots could be taking starks iron army tech (someone mentioned he'll probably be from sokovia and not latveria in the MCU) and finally he improves upon the wakandan tech they have recklessly given the wider world. 

All of that makes Doom a pretty well connected Avengers villain.

It does mean we've maybe lost out on his FF connection but we could even work that in by having reed richards and Doom as roommates at university pre-snap. Doom gets snapped losing/causing his family's death. Reed doesn't and gets 5 years to overtake and surpass Doom. So we can get the intellectual jealousy that exists in the comics. But there's an added layer. Reed has been using his genuis in the 5 snap years to try and fix things his way (one reason being to bring back his friend Doom along with everyone else). Probably by dimension hopping but something goes wrong and he creates the FF who are then missing having their origin story while endgame goes down and therefore can't contribute. So Doom also holds it against Reed for failing him because he knows a man with Reed's intellect could have found a better solution than the avengers did. So, he doesn't hate Reed as much as the Avengers who were responsible for Doom's fate but there's still that connection. It would also provide a reason for the FF coming in to help stop Doom as Reed does feel like he let his friend down and doesn't just want to stop him but help him. 

They could even cover some of this in a FF film where we see him as Reed's friend and how he "dies" in the snap. And at the end when the FF get back from their origin adventure where they've missed Endgame first thing Reed does is check in on his friend Doom and discovers he's a bitter  and broken man over his family's death and accuses Reed of failing him. Doom says he will find out who's responsible for what's happened and that he will stop at nothing to make them pay and try and find a way to get his family back. If Stark can sacrifice hundreds of thousands to keep his daughter, Doom can do the same to get his family back.

All of these things could be peppered throughout phase 4 /5 prior to having Doom kick major ass in Avengers: Doom or whatever they choose to call it.

[sifth]

3 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

I could have said the same thing at the start of the MCU. Did you really watch Thor, Iron Man or Hulk and think “Yes, yes, charisma overload, these guys can lead a 20 movie franchise!” They each of them had their appeal and quirks but weren’t at the stage of “yep, golden, can absolutely dominate this franchise.” I see the current crop in the same field. They are sufficiently enjoyable and compelling at the moment that i want to see more, some more than others of course, but they have time to grow into their roles as the previous characters did

Can't say much for the others, but RDJ had a tone of charisma in the first Iron Man film. So much so, that is saved his failing career. Hulk's a bit more tricky, wince he was played by Edward Norton at first, but once Mark Ruffalo took over, I knew he was in safe hands. Thor was just boring character at first, I can't really blame Chris Hemsworth on that one, he seemed fully committed, especially in the third one, when he had no powers. It took them a while to realize though, just how funny of a guy Chris Hemsworth is, but better late then never I suppose.

 

Not gona lie, I'm not getting the same vibe from the next generation. Maybe they'll surprise me, I heck I hated Strange in his solo movie, but liked him in Infinity Wars, so anything is possible. Just not sure I care enough about these characters enough to go out of my way to see their movies.

[sologdin]

To each their own i suppose

yeah, de gustibus non est disputandem, as to who has 'personality.'  commentary about individuated gustatory preferences lacks utility for the thread as a whole.

guardians 3 can focus on adam as initial villain, which accords with his initial appearance in FF 66; the presence of hemsworth with them accords with adam's second appearance in thor 164.  nice comments by starlin on these things.

[Maltaran]

New Spider-Man trailer, with serious Endgame spoilers

 

[Heartofice]

Ok I'm back on board for this movie a bit more. The first trailer seemed really bleh, but I think thats because it couldn't really get into any of the details of the plot, and so it just looked like a jolly fun CGI holiday. I can at least see some of the narrative tension now. 

Doesn't look like top tier MCU but also isn't that quite bland middle tier that tends to exist.

[sifth]

2 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Ok I'm back on board for this movie a bit more. The first trailer seemed really bleh, but I think thats because it couldn't really get into any of the details of the plot, and so it just looked like a jolly fun CGI holiday. I can at least see some of the narrative tension now. 

Doesn't look like top tier MCU but also isn't that quite bland middle tier that tends to exist.

The only real worry I have is the obvious twist that Mysterio is evil all along.

Aside from that this movie looks really fun.

[Rhom]

Interesting... so they are going full on multiverse... or at least making us think that.  Mysterio could just be saying all that shit to build himself up as a hero.

Hmmm...

[Bastard of Boston]

Love the new Spidey trailer! Also couldn't be higher on the MCU than I am now. Everyone's mileage will vary, I guess. The big three have had a stranglehold on the overall MCU narrative for a decade. Everyone else has been supporting. They have the star power. It's just a matter of constructing an overall character arc as compelling as Tony and Steve's has been.