Gaston de Foix Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 2 hours ago, A Horse Named Stranger said: The LibDems have created a tactical mess of their own recently. At least that's what I think. Their announcement that they'd like to just revoke article 50 was not particularly clever. While Labour's lack of a clear logical positon on what they really want (I am assuming our Leech lord has not managed to put together a sensible defense of the indefensible), the LibDems went to the other extreme. What voters are they exactly after? They already have the remainiest of the remain party credentials. So I really don't get the point of opening themselves up for that "ignoring the referendum" line of attacks. The "ignore the referendum" line of attack will be coming regardless, even if you ask for a second referendum. Referenda are just bad ideas in representative democracies because they permit the government of the day to ignore political accountability for the outcome of its decisions. And there is no constitutional reason preventing Parliament from staying in the EU without a referendum. A second referendum, then, should be a political compromise which the Lib Dems will be best placed to deliver in a Hung Parliament if they start off from an Art. 50 revoke position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 Very odd display today. Boris visits a hospital for a photo op, is confronted by the father of a son whose treatment has been impacted by hospital shortages who then criticises him for being there on a photo op, only for Boris to deny he's there on a photo op - on camera! The BBC then decided to focus on the fact that the father was a Labour activist, rather than the thrust of his argument which is undeniable, which was an odd choice. Shambolic in the extreme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redriver Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 Denying there's a camera there on camera seems to sum up Brexit in a nutshell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 So Johnson has been given 12 days to put up or shut up. Quote Boris Johnson has 12 days to set out his Brexit plans to the EU, according to Finland's prime minister. Antti Rinne said he and French President Emmanuel Macron agreed the UK needed to produce the proposals in writing by the end of September, adding if not, "then it's over". This is somewhat for domestic political consumption in France, of course, but given that everything Johnson does or says about Brexit is for domestic political consumption in the UK, that's not unreasonable. Quote The UK government said talks with the EU have been making progress since Mr Johnson came into No 10 in July. It said it had put forward "a number of proposals" as alternatives to the Irish border backstop - the policy aimed at preventing the return of a hard border on the island of Ireland and a key sticking point in former PM Theresa May's Brexit deal. But Mr Johnson has repeatedly refused to reveal details of the proposals in interviews, saying he did not want to negotiate in public. The EU has continued to criticise the UK for not putting any plans in writing. Case in point. Nothing in writing, so he can claim to be putting forward proposals without anyone actually being able to examine them. But don't worry, because it's all in hand! Quote Commons leader Jacob Rees-Mogg insisted the prime minister was on course to deliver a "fundamentally different" Brexit deal to ensure the UK leaves on October 31. He told a Telegraph event that to achieve such an outcome the government had to "listen very carefully to what the DUP says". 'Fundamentally different'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted September 19, 2019 Author Share Posted September 19, 2019 21 hours ago, Gaston de Foix said: The EU are only speaking bluntly, while Farage and his cronies have been openly and obnoxiously attacking the EU in the European Parliament. They have for a long time being damaging the national interest through their boorishness. Yes, but before Varadkar the EU leaders (namely Merkel and Macron) were way more diplomatic. The harshest criticism was probably Merkel's remark, that while they have failed to come up with a solution for three years, maybe Johnson will come up with one in 30 days [everything's possible, so who knows]. Which the British media then somehow turned into Merkel has given Johnson 30 days to solve Brexit - huge consession from the EU. I am sure that nobody was more surprised by that turn of events than Merkel herself. During their joint press conference Varadkar was really the first to publicly put down Johnson and call him out on his BS. So he left very little room for spin. 21 hours ago, Gaston de Foix said: The "ignore the referendum" line of attack will be coming regardless, even if you ask for a second referendum. Referenda are just bad ideas in representative democracies because they permit the government of the day to ignore political accountability for the outcome of its decisions. And there is no constitutional reason preventing Parliament from staying in the EU without a referendum. A second referendum, then, should be a political compromise which the Lib Dems will be best placed to deliver in a Hung Parliament if they start off from an Art. 50 revoke position. There's still a difference between giving the people a final say by a confirmatory vote and we would flat out revoke Article 50. The most recent polling seems to suggest that the LibDems were right with their decission, I applaud their political courage, I wouldn't have had the balls to go there. Anyway with the EU deadline. Jonathan Lis has summed it up nicely. Short version Johnson is toast. What I didn't notice is that the deadline conincides nicely with the Tory party conference. Anyway, his main point is his best bet is the Ireland only backstop, whcih would still kill him (not a particularly original thought, but still nicely elaborated on why and how). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Which Tyler Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 This leaver is happy to die for his cause. A Darwin Award lies in his future, but I need a lot more convincing that he has the right to force it on others. Given that, I wonder if he'll happily take a back seat, and let someone who doesnt want to die of medical shortages have his share? https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/no-deal-brexit-on-bbc-breakfast-1-6279075 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 On 9/18/2019 at 4:00 PM, Werthead said: Very odd display today. Boris visits a hospital for a photo op, is confronted by the father of a son whose treatment has been impacted by hospital shortages who then criticises him for being there on a photo op, only for Boris to deny he's there on a photo op - on camera! The BBC then decided to focus on the fact that the father was a Labour activist, rather than the thrust of his argument which is undeniable, which was an odd choice. Shambolic in the extreme. Isn’t the bigger issue here is that someone pointed out Johnson’s gross behavior? I’m being sarcastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 20 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said: Isn’t the bigger issue here is that someone pointed out Johnson’s gross behavior? Sarcasm. Why should you pay for a crime someone else noticed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Anti-Targ Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 I guess I've been watching too many Youtube videos about Brexit that it ran out suggesting current ones and dragged this one up from the past Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted September 20, 2019 Author Share Posted September 20, 2019 17 hours ago, Which Tyler said: This leaver is happy to die for his cause. A Darwin Award lies in his future, but I need a lot more convincing that he has the right to force it on others. Given that, I wonder if he'll happily take a back seat, and let someone who doesnt want to die of medical shortages have his share? https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/no-deal-brexit-on-bbc-breakfast-1-6279075 Reminds me of my mum's best friend's husband. He was also diagnosed with diabetes (among other things), so his PG told him to look out for his blood levels and diet. He also gave him some emergency medicine just in case in blood sugar was getting worse for one reason or another. As a compliant patient, he of course wanted to have his afternoon pie with cream, np, afterall he still had this ermegency medicine to deal with pesky the blood sugar. I think you can guess where this story ended. Yes, I am fully aware of the have the pie and eat it irony wrt Brexit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted September 20, 2019 Author Share Posted September 20, 2019 In water is wet news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaston de Foix Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 2 hours ago, A Horse Named Stranger said: In water is wet news. Yup. As people have pointed out, today is in fact Day 30 of Angela Merkel's 30 day deadline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 I'm curious when the panic over lack of supplies starts to kick in. I know I'd already be hording like crazy given some of the reports I've read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Which Tyler Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 Sign from yesterday's protests: https://tinyurl.com/y6ddu4pa "You know it's time for change when children act like leaders and leaders act like children" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted September 21, 2019 Author Share Posted September 21, 2019 7 hours ago, Tywin et al. said: I'm curious when the panic over lack of supplies starts to kick in. I know I'd already be hording like crazy given some of the reports I've read. I wanted to make a dark Black Friday joke, about how Americans treat their silly electronics shopping like they were after the last bits of food, while the Brits were invading supermarkets like they were after the last bits of food, but much to my dismay I discovered that Black Friday is at the end of November, not October - so well past Brexit. But then again in serious, I don't think those scenes are likely to happen for some reasons. There's the optimists (supported by most Brexiter media) who don't think there'll be any problem, so why should they stockpile? The pessimists will probably have started to slowly but surely built up a supply months ago. Then we have the folks banking on another extension/last minute deal (it worked back in March, it will work again - I think I'd fall into that category). Part of me is morbidly curious which of our British boarders have turned into preppers. Well, presumably without the gold and guns that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 I already stockpiled several months' worth of medicine. Just keep topping it up. Meanwhile in the Labour party: unable to get backing for a challenger to Tom Watson, Momentum have decided to get rid of him by abolishing the position of Deputy Leader instead. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/20/momentum-bid-to-abolish-deputy-leader-tom-watsons-post Quote A Momentum source said: “No one person is more important than beating Boris Johnson, ending austerity and tackling the climate emergency. "Except if it's Jeremy Corbyn, obviously. Or Jon Lansman. Or Seumas Milne. Or Len McCluskey. Or... look, you get the point," Quote We just can’t afford to go into an election with a deputy leader set on wrecking Labour’s chances "That's the leader's job." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen'ari Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 1 hour ago, mormont said: "That's the leader's job." So true!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltaran Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 The line now is that Lansman did it on his own without the official approval of Momentum, so they’re obviously expecting it to get dropped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pebble thats Stubby Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 6 hours ago, A Horse Named Stranger said: I wanted to make a dark Black Friday joke, about how Americans treat their silly electronics shopping like they were after the last bits of food, while the Brits were invading supermarkets like they were after the last bits of food, but much to my dismay I discovered that Black Friday is at the end of November, not October - so well past Brexit. But then again in serious, I don't think those scenes are likely to happen for some reasons. There's the optimists (supported by most Brexiter media) who don't think there'll be any problem, so why should they stockpile? The pessimists will probably have started to slowly but surely built up a supply months ago. Then we have the folks banking on another extension/last minute deal (it worked back in March, it will work again - I think I'd fall into that category). Part of me is morbidly curious which of our British boarders have turned into preppers. Well, presumably without the gold and guns that is. Don't ask people on a public forum if they have prepped or not. Maybe after Brexit is sorted and any need for prepping has passed. Also Preppers are not panic buyers. Preppers leave the panicing and empty shelve fights for those that failed to prep. #Beansnbogroll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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