US Politics: A Midnight Express for Claudia Conway

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

It feels like this belongs here more than in the NBA thread. Two of the three teams in the NBA considered to be championship favorites, the Lakers and the Clippers, have voted to boycott the remainder of the season.

[HoodedCrow]

It is not necessary to murder unarmed people for petty crimes. Police near immunity and racism make these deaths even more disgusting. Police in other countries don’t do this.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

8 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

The Republican trolls who pop up in the comments sections of news media keep saying Biden is a child molester. WTF?

They’re just repeating what they hear on talk radio.

[S John]

5 minutes ago, HoodedCrow said:

It is not necessary to murder unarmed people for petty crimes. Police near immunity and racism make these deaths even more disgusting. Police in other countries don’t do this.

Yea this is kind of the way I see it as well. The racism element makes it particularly gross, but even taking that part of it out of the equation - police are killing unarmed people often in a situation that escalated from a petty crime. That in itself should spark demands for reform. A traffic violation, a drunk in public, selling loose cigarettes, even resisting arrest - these are not crimes that warrant a death sentence. A sense of proportionality seems to be lacking, and I think it’s entirely inappropriate that any petty interaction with the police could potentially lead to your death if you don’t handle it the way they want you to.

[Guy Kilmore]

27 minutes ago, The Map Guy said:

I 100% disagree with this woman. Ironically enough in modern times, it is BLM burning down the black-owned businesses. It would be even more ironic if it was a white BLM rioter that throws the Molotov. But if you agree on her justification of rioting and stealing, please feel free to invite her to your home for dinner.

Throw some statistics at me to prove your point.  Let's see it.

As to having her over for dinner, I mean, sure why not, if there isn't a pandemic going on?  She is an acclaim author and probably has an interesting story to tell.  

ETA:  Why are you consistently refraining from responding to Kay Fury an actual woman of color in the heart of the Minneapolis, familiar of the situation, active in that community?  I would think if you are curious in an actual conversation and an opportunity to explore that would be like the number one person I would want to talk to.  Not Larry, who isn't even from there, or I, a white dude from the area.

[Martell Spy]

11 minutes ago, Guy Kilmore said:

Throw some statistics at me to prove your point.  Let's see it.

He already ran away. After pointing out that he is a life-long Democrat, but is voting Republican this election for the first time. Classic Republican troll bitch move.

[Guy Kilmore]

3 minutes ago, Martell Spy said:

He already ran away. After pointing out that he is a life-long Democrat, but is voting Republican this election for the first time. Classic Republican troll bitch move.

I read the rest of his post instead of the part directed just at me and noticed that.  Yep, I can squint and give people Donald Trump the first time around (probably my white, male, heterosexual privilege in action right there), but now if you look at all this and go, yeah, sign me up for more, I have a hard time viewing that individual as a "good" person or wanting "good" for other people.

[Martell Spy]

Just now, Guy Kilmore said:

I read the rest of his post instead of the part directed just at me and noticed that.  Yep, I can squint and give people Donald Trump the first time around (probably my white privilege in action right there), but now if you look at all this and go, yeah, sign me up for more, I have a hard time viewing that individual as a "good" person.

Well, he's saying he passed on Trump the first time as well! Not very believable, much like all the RNC gaslighting.

[Week]

@The Map Guy Ciao. Hope you put more effort into educating yourself instead of spewing ignorance and bigotry. The continued intentional bad faith argumentation, support for white supremacists and bigots - you are not a family man. 

https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/

Quote

#BlackLivesMatter was founded in 2013 in response to the acquittal of Trayvon Martin’s murderer. Black Lives Matter Foundation, Inc is a global organization in the US, UK, and Canada, whose mission is to eradicate white supremacy and build local power to intervene in violence inflicted on Black communities by the state and vigilantes. By combating and countering acts of violence, creating space for Black imagination and innovation, and centering Black joy, we are winning immediate improvements in our lives.

We are expansive. We are a collective of liberators who believe in an inclusive and spacious movement. We also believe that in order to win and bring as many people with us along the way, we must move beyond the narrow nationalism that is all too prevalent in Black communities. We must ensure we are building a movement that brings all of us to the front.

We affirm the lives of Black queer and trans folks, disabled folks, undocumented folks, folks with records, women, and all Black lives along the gender spectrum. Our network centers those who have been marginalized within Black liberation movements.

We are working for a world where Black lives are no longer systematically targeted for demise.

We affirm our humanity, our contributions to this society, and our resilience in the face of deadly oppression.

The call for Black lives to matter is a rallying cry for ALL Black lives striving for liberation.

 

[Guy Kilmore]

4 minutes ago, Martell Spy said:

Well, he's saying he passed on Trump the first time as well! Not very believable, much like all the RNC gaslighting.

It doesn't matter that he passed Trump the first time.  You are looking at what he is about and are going, "Yep, sign me up for more."  It was in your face 24/7 for almost 4 years.  So, whatever to him I guess.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

47 minutes ago, The Map Guy said:

I think 2 of 3 officers assisting Chauvin were rookies. One was only on his third patrol. At the 25:00 minute mark, one of the officers suggested to switch positions on Floyd, but Chauvin, the ranking officer of the scene, said No.

Isn't it the responsibility of the police to investigate the phone calls, regardless of race?

For every Starbuck 911 incident called in, there are many many more legitimate cases of crime, regardless of race.

I don't deny racism in America or in the police force. But as a law-abiding citizen, racist police are the bottom of my list of concerns. And I don't want Minnesota's problems or Wisconsin's problems or Missouri's problems ripple their effects here in New York. I don't want the beef between two Minnesota co-workers ruining people's lives here in New York. If you guys like sharing problems between states, please take more of our NYC first-wave COVID. Please accept some of the San Fran homeless people into your neighborhoods. 

As a family man, I care about safety ... but BLM wants to defund the police.
As a working man, I care about job safety ... but BLM are destroying businesses.
As an American with 1st Amendment rights ... Cancel Culture wants to fire people from their jobs if they have different opinions.

I agree, that kid should have been shot on site.

This is a fresh one, I would love to hear the full story before I make a judgment. But from what I see in the only video available so far is a teenager trying to defend himself as he was being chased down. He was running towards the police. He tripped, and one guy kicked him in the head, another tried to whack him with a skateboard (seriously ... don't bring a skateboard to this type of fight). The last guy did bring a gun to a gunfight, but was slow to the draw and was shot in the arm. One second slower, this teenager with the AR-15 would have been shot dead. But I refuse to make a judgment until I find out what happened prior to him fleeing ... but it is important to state that he only shot at his assaulters and no innocent bystanders.

If you guys want to rush to judgment, go ahead. I learned my lessons from Jussie Smollett, Nick Sandmann and now George Floyd.

I know the kid is 17 and he shouldn't have been there ... but then again you can make the same case for all BLM rioters.

It is obvious George Floyd was on drugs. The officer took precaution to remove him from the car. The officer explained it at the 9:44 mark. There was no attempt to hurt/murder Floyd, until Chauvin arrived to the scene later.
In regards to the bold, have anyone here ever had a friend or family member killed by a driver under the influence of drugs or alcohol?

So if Chauvin is found guilty of murder of Floyd because they had a fallout at their other job (Floyd with-held Chauvin's paycheck is the story I heard from their other co-workers) ... AND jury finds that there was NO RACISM involved ... would this still be a BLM victory?

How about David Dorn?

My intention is letting BLM supporters know that they are using a false martyr in George Floyd, as a champion of racist police brutality, as an excuse to divide COVID America at its lowest point. I have voted Democrat my entire life, and people like me around NYC and America are voting Trump because we don't want BLM's false narrative shoved down our throats as an excuse to destroy our jobs and safety. Racist cops are not the priority-concern of law abiding citizens. Criminals are.

I found a great quote online, I forgot where and I am paraphrasing for this black MAGA supporter:
There is a leak in the bathroom and a fire in the kitchen. Don't yell and scream at me to fix the leak while completely ignoring the fire.

Don't worry, I won't be coming back to this part of the forum now. You guys can enjoy your party here.

I 100% disagree with this woman. Ironically enough in modern times, it is BLM burning down the black-owned businesses. It would be even more ironic if it was a white BLM rioter that throws the Molotov. But if you agree on her justification of rioting and stealing, please feel free to invite her to your home for dinner.

Parody post?

47 minutes ago, The Map Guy said:

Isn't it the responsibility of the police to investigate the phone calls, regardless of race?

For every Starbuck 911 incident called in, there are many many more legitimate cases of crime, regardless of race.

If the police response/investigation were just as colour blind as implied.

47 minutes ago, The Map Guy said:

I don't deny racism in America or in the police force. But as a law-abiding citizen, racist police are the bottom of my list of concerns. And I don't want Minnesota's problems or Wisconsin's problems or Missouri's problems ripple their effects here in New York. I don't want the beef between two Minnesota co-workers ruining people's lives here in New York. If you guys like sharing problems between states, please take more of our NYC first-wave COVID. Please accept some of the San Fran homeless people into your neighborhoods. 

Again. Implying this is a Wisconsin, Missouri or Minnessota problem, implies that NY does not have the same problem. But it's nice that you start a paragraph, stating you don't deny it, but to deny it's a problem in NYC. It's a great day for Eric Garner I suppose... And no, we'Re not playing a game whataboutism here. It's retarded and outrageous, when halfwits like Cucker Tarzan scream it into their echo chamber, it's not smarter when you do it on the internet.

47 minutes ago, The Map Guy said:

As a family man, I care about safety ... but BLM wants to defund the police.
As a working man, I care about job safety ... but BLM are destroying businesses.
As an American with 1st Amendment rights ... Cancel Culture wants to fire people from their jobs if they have different opinions

As an atheist, sauna goer, piano player and spare time comedian, and chess enthusiast, I find this list admirable. You know what defund the police actually means, or are you just Cucker Tarzaning scary words into wild, without knowing what they mean? BLM destroying business? Right. Just let the negros die. It's good for business. As a non-gun owning European... Cancel culture is a right wing obsession, by people who don'T want to own the consequences of the nonsense they're spouting. But don't worry, BLM are on their way to cancel culture you from your job. They'll arrive momentarily. Call the police.

47 minutes ago, The Map Guy said:

My intention is letting BLM supporters know that they are using a false martyr in George Floyd, as a champion of racist police brutality, as an excuse to divide COVID America at its lowest point. I have voted Democrat my entire life, and people like me around NYC and America are voting Trump because we don't want BLM's false narrative shoved down our throats as an excuse to destroy our jobs and safety. Racist cops are not the priority-concern of law abiding citizens. Criminals are.

Ofc you voted Trump. And no, BLM didn't make Floyd a martyr. That was the police doing by murdering an unarmed man. You forgot the list of your attributes there. Stamp collector, water colour painter. Whatever you wanted to add there. Be a bit more creative. Talking about false narratives.

47 minutes ago, The Map Guy said:

I found a great quote online, I forgot where and I am paraphrasing for this black MAGA supporter:
There is a leak in the bathroom and a fire in the kitchen. Don't yell and scream at me to fix the leak while completely ignoring the fire.

I find the concern trolling heart touching. The ongoing murders of people of colour is the leaking bathroom. Cool. I appreciate you wanting to put out the burning cross first.

Again, was that a parody post?

[Zorral]

Concerning the commonalities with Hitler and the nazi party and what happened when they did their WINNING, and what we've got going on right now with shoggoth and the rethugs -- 

In the Second Volume of ‘Hitler,’ by Volker Ulright : "How a Dictator Invited His Own Downfall"

Quote

 

The impulsiveness and grandiosity, the bullying and vulgarity, were obvious from the beginning; if anything, they accounted for Adolf Hitler’s anti-establishment appeal. For Germany’s unpopular conservative elites, Hitler’s energy and theatrics made him an enticing partner when they appointed him chancellor on Jan. 30, 1933.

But anyone who thought the Nazis would be content with their share — that Hitler would rise to the occasion or be hemmed in by it, becoming a dignified statesman who sought compromise — was summarily purged from the system that conservatives assumed they controlled. An utter impossibility had become the indomitable reality. The Weimar Republic had become the Third Reich. It would take another world war, a genocide and millions of dead before the dictatorship finally collapsed in 1945, a full 12 years after Hitler was invited into power.
[....]
By 1941, Ullrich writes, Germany’s defeat was already assured, but Hitler would have none of it, getting rid of any military experts who challenged him. He doubled down on his own pitilessness, even toward his own people, saying that if they didn’t fight “they deserve to die out.” Following Hitler’s lead, Goebbels treated the Germans like chumps to be duped. “There are so many lies that truth and swindle can scarcely be distinguished,” he noted with satisfaction in his diary during the early stages of Barbarossa. “That is best for us at the moment.”

The truth did emerge in the end, but only after years of mass death and cataclysmic destruction. Hitler had peddled so many lies that the fantasy he created was stretched impossibly thin. For all his pretensions to invincibility, he ended up a broken, sickly man, who confronted the reality bearing down on him by killing himself in his bunker. He had ordered his people to burn his body, so that only a few charred bits of bone and pieces of dental work remained. As Ullrich puts it, “There was hardly anything else left of the man who at the height of his career had fancied himself the ruler of the world.”

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/26/books/review-hitler-downfall-volker-ullrich.html

 

[Week]

https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/rnc-black-republicans/tnamp/?__twitter_impression=true

Quote

People of color are suffering from an economic collapse that disproportionately affects our communities, a pandemic that disproportionately afflicts our communities, and a criminal justice system that disproportionately murders people in our communities. And all the Republican Party has to offer in response is a few performative pardons and some Magic Negroes who are willing to help white people feel cool with bigotry. Moral judgment should fall on those who use tokenism to hide their racism. The few Black people who are willing to play along in exchange for cash or prizes are largely irrelevant.

I tried to pull a few quotes and couldn't. Read the whole piece.

[Varysblackfyre321]

1 hour ago, The Map Guy said:

I think 2 of 3 officers assisting Chauvin were rookies. One was only on his third patrol. At the 25:00 minute mark, one of the officers suggested to switch positions on Floyd, but Chauvin, the ranking officer of the scene, said No.

It was blatantly illegal, and all these men need to be held accountable for their actions.

Chauvin was not the only bad cop on site.

There are good cops.

They would have stopped this.

1 hour ago, The Map Guy said:

don't deny racism in America or in the police force. But as a law-abiding citizen, racist police are the bottom of my list of concerns.

At the very least it should be treated as a significant problem correct?

The force enforcing laws on citizens should do it equitably.

1 hour ago, The Map Guy said:

Racist cops are not the priority-concern of law abiding citizens. Criminals are.

 

Those who’d trade freedom for security deserve neither.

The depreciated character of government isn’t justified by crime.

1 hour ago, The Map Guy said:

So if Chauvin is found guilty of murder of Floyd because they had a fallout at their other job (Floyd with-held Chauvin's paycheck is the story I heard from their other co-workers) ... AND jury finds that there was NO RACISM involved ... would this still be a BLM victory?

There’s no charge of “racism” the jury won’t determine if racism was involved.

 

1 hour ago, The Map Guy said:

If you guys want to rush to judgment, go ahead. I learned my lessons from Jussie Smollett, Nick Sandmann and now George Floyd.

Floyd was murdered. 
He resisted arrest. He was still murdered.

Resisting arrest\= killing him is okay.

1 hour ago, The Map Guy said:

But from what I see in the only video available so far is a teenager trying to defend himself as he was being chased down. He was running towards the police. He tripped, and one guy kicked him in the head, a

From the video, I wouldn’t charge the kid. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, The Map Guy said:

I don't deny racism in America or in the police force. But as a law-abiding citizen, racist police are the bottom of my list of concerns.

How privileged of you to not have to worry that racist police might somehow infringe upon your rights as an American, even to the point of beating, imprisoning, and killing you. I also have that privilege. But, being a non-sociopath (mostly), I actually give a shit when racist cops, under color of law,, are depriving my fellow law-abiding citizens of those rights that you and I are so privileged to not have to worry about. 

Since I'm not a fucking moron, and since I know that my ability to enjoy my rights is only protected insofar as such rights are applied equally to everyone, because if rights can be taken away due to arbitrary considerations, then I know I retain those rights only at the whim of whomever is drawing the arbitrary boundaries.

[Ormond]

1 hour ago, Fragile Bird said:

The Republican trolls who pop up in the comments sections of news media keep saying Biden is a child molester. WTF?

Isn't that the basic premise of Q-Anon: that all Democratic politicians are child molesters? 

[Ormond]

47 minutes ago, Martell Spy said:

He already ran away. After pointing out that he is a life-long Democrat, but is voting Republican this election for the first time. Classic Republican troll bitch move.

WIth the millions of voters in the USA, there have to be at least several thousand who voted for Clinton last time who will vote for Trump this time. 

[Maithanet]

7 minutes ago, The Great Unwashed said:

How privileged of you to not have to worry that racist police might somehow infringe upon your rights as an American, even to the point of beating, imprisoning, and killing you. I also have that privilege.

I'm not at all sure you do, or at least, if you omit the word racist from your statement you definitely don't.  People of all races are killed by police in America much more than other countries (Canada, Western Europe, Japan).  Police violence isn't just a racial issue, and the idea that white people don't have to worry about it is both wrong and dangerous. 

[Lollygag]

21 hours ago, sologdin said:

Dems won't convince the rural population of anything so long as they make nonsense claims like guns result in violence and crime in area where there's never any violence or crime.

is this a serious allegation, or an ironization of rightwing silliness?  because the maps for loose gun regulation, gun ownership, and gun violence all overlap?

For the record, I'm for strengthening regulations (especially gun shows) and am not arguing against that. Explaining isn't the same thing as justifying or approving. Not sure why these are equated so much here. The book forum does it a lot, too. 

But if you want to know part of the problem with receptivity from rural people - I'm telling you. As I said before, I grew up in a place where guns are - literally - lying all over the place. Unlocked. As I said in the article, this is in places where murders don't happen, doors can be left unlocked and keys left in the car. I know this isn't the reality in cities at all, but Democrats come across as having been majorly gaslighting rural people for a long time though that was never the intent. It's been manipulated by the Republican powers that be and turned into radicalizing their base to generate money and single-minded party loyalty. Check out an NRA magazine sometime.

I would not recommend trying to convince a rural voter with stats. These are state-wide and speak nothing to rural people's world. The dockets in our newspapers are about absurdly stupid (and often funny) nonsense, not anything even remotely serious. It also smacks on arrogant educated city people telling me my life experience is wrong stuff which has fed the feelings which made Trump appealing to them.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/09/us/evangelicals-trump-christianity.html

Quote

It is deep into summer now. The pandemic has killed 160,000 people nationwide. Thousands have taken to the streets to protest the police killings of Black people. In Sioux Center, where the Black population is less than 1 percent, feelings about Mr. Trump remain largely unchanged.

Only three people in the county are reported to have died of the coronavirus. There was an outbreak of cases at the pork processing plant. Churches have mostly reopened. The closest thing to a protest was a walk for justice in Orange City.

“People in my circles, you don’t really hear about racism, so I guess I don’t know too much about it,” Mr. Driesen said of the protests. “When I see the pictures, I thought they all should be at work, being productive citizens.”

State wide stats just don't matter shit to them. That's another world. They can't relate. They don't want to. They want what they know. It reads as city people can't get their act together and rural people who are responsible have to pay for it. That *really* ticks them off and it's the source of a lot of anti-immigration feeling. Won't go into that. Maybe if Dems acknowledge the mental illness/anger issue problem (owning their shit or whatever) they might get somewhere with rural people on guns. I dunno, but it'd be a lot better than what Democrats are doing now. Mind your audience when trying to convince someone.

[Varysblackfyre321]

17 minutes ago, The Great Unwashed said:

How privileged of you to not have to worry that racist police might somehow infringe upon your rights as an American, even to the point of beating, imprisoning, and killing you. I also have that privilege. But, being a non-sociopath (mostly), I actually give a shit when racist cops, under color of law,, are depriving my fellow law-abiding citizens of those rights that you and I are so privileged to not have to worry about. 

Since I'm not a fucking moron, and since I know that my ability to enjoy my rights is only protected insofar as such rights are applied equally to everyone, because if rights can be taken away due to arbitrary considerations, then I know I retain those rights only at the whim of whomever is drawing the arbitrary boundaries.

I think this should be noted; criminals have rights too.

Breaking the law doesn’t mean one loses all their rights.