US Election Predictions Thread

[Week]

53 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

I am more curious. We are all living in the some observable reality. While @Rhom might not be a racist, but you seem to be ok with one being in charge of the country, because of the tax code. So the obvious question is, what price tag was attached to your political soul. How big a tax cut for you personally did it take to be like, child seperation policy at the border? Meh, I don't give a fuck.

Who cares about the half a billion (or was it one billion?) he has in debt, his tax dodges, the ongoing corruption lining his pockets? I got a few grand!

Even aside from the rank misogyny, racism, and narcissism. I hope the country is spared that poor judgement. 

[Rhom]

1 hour ago, Raja said:

I think the coded language in Rhom's post is fairly obvious.

See.  This right here.  This is the bullshit I’m talking about.  You people in this part of the board ran off a great person like Triskele and you just have to keep piling on accusing anyone who doesn’t agree with you of being racist.

We could go round and round with me pointing out that child separation has been a policy going back into prior administrations, but I don’t see any value in that argument.

I can point out that many of those restaurants I mentioned were hanging on by a thread in the pandemic until the rioting in downtown Louisville pushed them over the edge.

I could make the argument that many of the end goals are things we all agree on, but we differ on what is the better avenue to approach it.

But none of that matters.  Because racist.

[ljkeane]

15 minutes ago, Rhom said:

But none of that matters.  Because racist.

I mean 'because racist' is a very sound reason not to vote for him but, ok, if that's not enough for you the man suggested injecting bleach as a solution to covid. How the hell do you not vote for him last time, look at four years of his shite and think voting for him this time is a good idea? Jesus.

[Rhom]

6 minutes ago, Raja said:

Enjoy your paycheck, Rhom. Hope it's worth it.

It is.  It allows me to provide a decent job to those five people that I mentioned earlier.  It allows me to provide care for a couple hundred patients every week.  It allowed me to teach as a hobby at the local community college.  It gives me the opportunity to volunteer in my community and be part of an international advisory committee of just 8 people for one of the biggest service organizations in the world.  (Seriously, that has been one of the coolest things I've had a chance to do.)

I have been very fortunate in my life.  I won't deny that.  I believe in looking for the best in people and tend to see the sunny side.  I genuinely believe that I live in the greatest country in the world.  Is it perfect?  Of course not.  Can we do better?  Sure.  Do we disagree on the best way to get there?  Yeah.  Does that make you a bad person?  Not at all.  Does it make me a bad person?  I like to think not.

[Heartofice]

A lot of people have voted for Trump this time round, I personally couldn't really fathom that, even if I personally don't especially care for a lot of the rhetoric coming out of the left I would be only too glad to be rid of him.

But someone has put their head above the trench and said they voted for Trump. I'd say that was a good resource for trying to understand what a lot of us are not understanding. 

Or, instead of that, you could call them a racist and say everything they gave as a reason was 'coded language' for racism. 

Really you'd think people would try and learn from their mistakes.

[Ran]

22 minutes ago, Rhom said:

child separation has been a policy going back into prior administrations

I'm not going to quibble about your feelings that somehow a Biden presidency would so negatively impact your business that you'd rather put up with an openly corrupt and incompetent Trump presidency that has damaged various industries in pursuit of fruitless trade wars and has frittered away international trust and prestige for venal reasons. I don't think much of it, because I suspect your assessment of the impact on you is probably not thinking through the whole picture of the Biden tax plan, but so it goes.

But.

You should surely know that "child separation" was a policy that prior administrations avoided as much as they possibly could. The Obama administration was forced to separate families by the order of judges for technical legal reasons, and rather than do that, in the vast majority of cases they just let the families go until their hearings.

The Trump administration, OTOH, made that unpleasant situation the policy they would focus on, deliberately separating any and all families, parting infants from their mothers, and in the process making of a hash of tracking them such that there's several hundred children in the US where we have no idea where their parents are or how to reunite them. "The cruelty was the point", as Adam Serwer wrote, and as reporting has shown Stephen Miller (architect of this plan) and others in the administration have basically confirmed this in private.

[OnionAhaiReborn]

10 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

A lot of people have voted for Trump this time round, I personally couldn't really fathom that, even if I personally don't especially care for a lot of the rhetoric coming out of the left I would be only too glad to be rid of him.

But someone has put their head above the trench and said they voted for Trump. I'd say that was a good resource for trying to understand what a lot of us are not understanding. 

Or, instead of that, you could call them a racist and say everything they gave as a reason was 'coded language' for racism. 

Really you'd think people would try and learn from their mistakes.

First, I really do not think the discussions we have here are electorally consequential. Second, while I appreciate someone being willing to go against the grain of general opinion here, I'm being equally honest when I assess the opinion that's been offered. Sorry, I think racism is a real issue and I see it in Rhom's post. If it helps, I don't think that makes him a virulent racist, just a person with racial biases. 

[Heartofice]

6 minutes ago, OnionAhaiReborn said:

First, I really do not think the discussions we have here are electorally consequential. Second, while I appreciate someone being willing to go against the grain of general opinion here, I'm being equally honest when I assess the opinion that's been offered. Sorry, I think racism is a real issue and I see it in Rhom's post. If it helps, I don't think that makes him a virulent racist, just a person with racial biases. 

If that is your opinion then fine. What I'm getting at is the past 5 years have seen some shocking results, in the US and across the world, like Brexit. I would have thought that it would be really insightful to be able to actually be able to ask someone why they voted the way they did, to try and understand their point of view. 

I get that tensions are high, but I would be really interested in knowing peoples motivations and reasoning, rather than making a bunch of wild assumptions about peoples character. 

[TrueMetis]

35 minutes ago, Rhom said:

It is.  It allows me to provide a decent job to those five people that I mentioned earlier.  It allows me to provide care for a couple hundred patients every week.  It allowed me to teach as a hobby at the local community college.  It gives me the opportunity to volunteer in my community and be part of an international advisory committee of just 8 people for one of the biggest service organizations in the world.  (Seriously, that has been one of the coolest things I've had a chance to do.)

I have been very fortunate in my life.  I won't deny that.  I believe in looking for the best in people and tend to see the sunny side.  I genuinely believe that I live in the greatest country in the world.  Is it perfect?  Of course not.  Can we do better?  Sure.  Do we disagree on the best way to get there?  Yeah.  Does that make you a bad person?  Not at all.  Does it make me a bad person?  I like to think not.

You don't live in the greatest country in the world though, and your belief that you do doesn't actually make it so. And the guy you voted for? Is actively making things worse. You "disagree on the best way to get there"? In what world is stoking stochastic terrorism going to make your country better? A proud boy was arrested for threatening to blow up a polling station. A different group tried to kidnap a governor. Things Trumps words and actions encourage. Is that your best way to make your country better? And you think that doesn't make you a bad person? At what point does you incidental support for all of the horrid shit Trump encourages on the basis it got you personally some extra cash make you a bad person?

Like I'm glad your having a good time recently, that's a chance over 200000 people will never get because your guy knowingly and deliberately mismanaged the pandemic. That millions who are slipping into poverty won't get. But hey, "fuck you, got mine" I guess.

If you think this doesn't make you a bad person, it's because you don't care about other people.

[butterbumps!]

40 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

If that is your opinion then fine. What I'm getting at is the past 5 years have seen some shocking results, in the US and across the world, like Brexit. I would have thought that it would be really insightful to be able to actually be able to ask someone why they voted the way they did, to try and understand their point of view. 

I get that tensions are high, but I would be really interested in knowing peoples motivations and reasoning, rather than making a bunch of wild assumptions about peoples character. 

The post in question explains the rationale as voting for ostensible material benefits to businesses in a Trump administration that wouldn't exist in a Biden one. But it completely elides over the harms caused to business by Trump's plague mismanagement, and instead appeals to Trump as a "law and order" type candidate that will keep "rioters" in line because "rioters" (ironically under this supposed law and order candidate's watch) were the "last straw" that harmed businesses.  Emphasizing the harm to business by protesters against racial violence (which was extremely limited in scope) as opposed to the pandemic (which is all consuming and inescapably linked to Trump's mismanagement and incompetence) is an interesting choice when attempting to distance oneself from accusations of racism.   

And for the record, a Trump voter might not be a virulent racist, or specifically voting for racist reasons, but voting for Trump is a racist act.   

[Rhom]

18 minutes ago, TrueMetis said:

You don't live in the greatest country in the world though, and your belief that you do doesn't actually make it so. And the guy you voted for? Is actively making things worse. You "disagree on the best way to get there"? In what world is stoking stochastic terrorism going to make your country better? A proud boy was arrested for threatening to blow up a polling station. A different group tried to kidnap a governor. Things Trumps words and actions encourage. Is that your best way to make your country better? And you think that doesn't make you a bad person? At what point does you incidental support for all of the horrid shit Trump encourages on the basis it got you personally some extra cash make you a bad person?

Like I'm glad your having a good time recently, that's a chance over 200000 people will never get because your guy knowingly and deliberately mismanaged the pandemic. That millions who are slipping into poverty won't get. But hey, "fuck you, got mine" I guess.

If you think this doesn't make you a bad person, it's because you don't care about other people.

See.  Running off good posters doing stuff like this.  Demonizing someone.  We can't have a reasonable discussion.  I realized that long ago and thats why I stay in the less antagonistic areas of the board where we can all talk about things we mutually enjoy and learn from each other.

I really can't stress enough how upset I was to see Triskele leave the board over attacks like this.  I never even met the dude.  I just know he and I enjoyed a lot of the same stuff and disagreed on some other things.  Given the chance, I bet you and I could sit and share a beverage of your preference and really enjoy each other's company.  

So anyways, people were asking how someone could rationalize a vote for Trump and I gave the perspective of about 67 million people or so.  Just thought I'd provide context on how someone can make a decision and not be a terrible person.    I'll go back to where I enjoy the interactions better.  

 

[DanteGabriel]

Ah, to be so assured of your own goodness while voting to ensure the continued reign of a predatory incompetent bigot. That's American exceptionalism.

[Kalbear]

I like that the problem is the rioting in Louisville and not, ya know, the reason for said rioting in Louisville. 

I also appreciate the mental gymnastics to say that something that happened on trumps watch was both to blame on the other party AND would be better under Trump when the literal evidence indicates that isn't so. 

[aceluby]

To sum it up:

1) Tax cuts that caused a trillion dollar deficit are great

2) Rioting is bad and is the fault of the left

3) Rioting caused restaurants to close

4) And my favorite, rioting would be better handled by Trump

Economic reasons indeed.

[Heartofice]

9 minutes ago, Rhom said:

See.  Running off good posters doing stuff like this.  Demonizing someone.  We can't have a reasonable discussion.  I realized that long ago and thats why I stay in the less antagonistic areas of the board where we can all talk about things we mutually enjoy and learn from each other.

I really can't stress enough how upset I was to see Triskele leave the board over attacks like this.  I never even met the dude.  I just know he and I enjoyed a lot of the same stuff and disagreed on some other things.  Given the chance, I bet you and I could sit and share a beverage of your preference and really enjoy each other's company.  

So anyways, people were asking how someone could rationalize a vote for Trump and I gave the perspective of about 67 million people or so.  Just thought I'd provide context on how someone can make a decision and not be a terrible person.    I'll go back to where I enjoy the interactions better.  

 

So i'm genuinely interested in whether your vote was FOR Trump or AGAINST Biden? What could the dems have done to convince you to vote for them, what did they do that put you off? Was there a moment where you decided to vote for Trump (you mentioned the protests, was this a key point?)

[Rippounet]

10 minutes ago, Rhom said:

I really can't stress enough how upset I was to see Triskele leave the board over attacks like this. 

I find that upsetting as well.

10 minutes ago, Rhom said:

Given the chance, I bet you and I could sit and share a beverage of your preference and really enjoy each other's company. 

It doesn't quite work like that.

I met a guy a few years ago with whom I had quite a few beers. Nice guy, genuinely likeable, we had fun together.
But then I noticed quite a few things. He was evasive about his job, he had odd discussions with other people and... he was hanging out with neo-nazi skinheads.
Turns out the guy was a parliamentary assistant for the National Front. Far-right. Very far-right.
After some discussions and some thought I rezalized that according to his beliefs I, being half-Jewish, should not exist. Neither should my son.
I never saw the guy again after this realization.

You see, it's not so simple as to say that people can focus on what they share, have a beer, and just forget about everything else.
Someone who, by his political activity, basically argues that I shouldn't exist, or at least, shouldn't be in my own country, can never be my friend.
If that person passes a moral judgment on my life, then I will pass moral judgment on his.

So that guy is a piece of shit. If I ever see him again, I will have to refrain myself from punching him in the face.
I will not have a beer with him. After all, I did that, we had fun, and he's still working for the far-right.
There's a limit to the good one can see in people.

[Heartofice]

Pretty sure Rhom isn’t a neo nazi so probably not the best example 

[DanteGabriel]

@Rhom no one is running you off. You are tucking your tail and hiding after getting pushback for an objectively nonsensical argument to back up a position many boarders find legitimately abhorrent. Simon gets more shit on a regular basis than you have gotten.

Why is the onus on us to understand your position? Why is there no expectation that you should understand how LGBTQ people, non-whites, women, and others feel legitimately horrified?

Toughen up, buttercup.

[Heartofice]

2 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

@Rhom no one is running you off. You are tucking your tail and hiding after getting pushback for an objectively nonsensical argument to back up a position many boarders find legitimately abhorrent. Simon gets more shit on a regular basis than you have gotten.

Why is the onus on us to understand your position? Why is there no expectation that you should understand how LGBTQ people, non-whites, women, and others feel legitimately horrified?

Toughen up, buttercup.

The onus isn’t on you to understand, but I would have thought after 5 years of clueless mumbling about racism and deplorables you might have some level of curiosity about why half the country don’t agree with you 

[TrueMetis]

Just now, Heartofice said:

The onus isn’t on you to understand, but I would have thought after 5 years of clueless mumbling about racism and deplorables you might have some level of curiosity about why half the country don’t agree with you 

Everything Rhom said confirms that the mumbling about racists and depolorables was right. That said racists and deplorables don't want to admit that they are racist and deplorable doesn't change that.

The issue isn't that we don't understand why they disagree, it's really not that hard to figure out. We've known for 5 years.