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UK Politics - BoJo Kool-Aid vs Project Fear Cocktail of Terror


A wilding

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32 minutes ago, john said:

By people being more likely to be convicted of the crimes they’re charged with.

I would refer to @karaddin solution to that.

32 minutes ago, john said:

By people being more likely to be convicted of the crimes they’re charged with.

How about both? 

A rapist should not be given different charges based around their genitals.

That’s justice IMO.

They should not get different treatment based around their biological sex. It permeates across society.if you  Treat a rape—which is seen as the worst form of sexual assault generally—as not rape you get more prosecutors, judges, police, those enforcing the law and general society to not see as bad as rape and act accordingly and how they deal with the victim and punish the rapist.

32 minutes ago, john said:

It’s already inevitable

It’s inevitable there will always be misandrists who will not see women raping anyone as possible.

At what  point are you willing to not allow their misandry to dictate the law?

 

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Does a discussion about the legal definition of rape really belong on this thread?

I am with @Spockydog here, still looking at the government's naked green-lighting of corruption.

The government minister put up to justify it officially said that in closing down the standards committee to let one of their own off the hook they were "completely focused on trying to restore a degree of integrity and probity in public life" - the very definition of a doublethink lie.

He also said, about the commissioner in charge of the standards committee  "that it was difficult to see what the future of the commissioner was and it was up to her to consider her position". Basically "how dare you call us out on our corruption, we are going to get rid of you one way of another, but are trying to avoid the bad PR of outright sacking you".

 

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6 minutes ago, A wilding said:

I am with @Spockydog here, still looking at the government's naked green-lighting of corruption.

 

Aye. As someone old enough to remember the Cash for Questions scandal, I find this whole affair extremely depressing. 

Though, with opposition parties quite rightly having nothing do to with whatever bollocks Bozo intends to set up, where does he go from here? Is Parliament now just a corruption free for all with literally no oversight?

 

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10 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

Is Parliament now just a corrupt free for all with literally no oversight?

I imagine that was the end goal. Though I am sure that they hoped to get there without attracting so much publicity on the way.

 

Edit:

And for me the other noteworthy aspect of this is that the MP at the centre of all this, found guilty of taking six figure sums to advocate for a company in government, is furiously protesting the unfairness of it all. While carefully not saying that he is innocent of the charges.

I too am old enough to remember Neil Hamilton and Jonathan Aitken doing exactly the same thing.

My impression has always been that the underlying driver for this is always "this is a legitimate job perk, lots of other people are doing similar things, it is very unfair to pick on me". Essentially it is a further indicator of the state of things.

 

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12 minutes ago, A wilding said:

Does a discussion about the legal definition of rape really belong on this thread?

Possibly, I think discussions on laws and how they should or shouldn’t change are political by nature. And I kept it to the one in England.

Though I acknowledge that’s a totally fair question to ask and could see a reasonable no to the question.

 

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13 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

I would refer to @karaddin solution to that.

 

It’s a valid solution. The one the England and Wales legal system has chosen is also a valid solution.

19 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

They should not get different treatment based around their biological sex. It permeates across society.if you  Treat a rape—which is seen as the worst form of sexual assault generally—as not rape you get more prosecutors, judges, police, those enforcing the law and general society to not see as bad as rape and act accordingly and how they deal with the victim and punish the rapist.

There’s no equal opportunity to be a rapist. Crimes are outside society by definition. I agree purely from a legal definitional perspective, women should be included, it makes things neater. But I can see the argument for sticking closer to the long held definition. And from a practical perspective it makes no difference since, like I’ve said, women do not rape to any degree worth talking about.

24 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

At what  point are willing to not allow their misandry to dictate the law?

Reasonably soon, from a law drafting point of view. Hence the inevitability.

23 minutes ago, A wilding said:

Does a discussion about the legal definition of rape really belong on this thread?

Yeah, fair enough. I’m repeating myself now anyway.

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9 minutes ago, Maltaran said:

U-turn alert!

Owen Paterson: Government to rethink MPs' conduct plan after backlash https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-59163961

A U-turn that has nothing to do with the Daily Heil failing to get on board with things - of course not.

We're being governed by opinion pole and leak; with government getting away with whatever it can before it's cheerleaders in the press feel that they've tried too much.
I suspect their cheerleaders will cheer the U-turn and completey forgive the initial despicatble intent, however; meaning that there's no repurcussions for anyone going forwards.

 

We used to say that Trump got away with things daily that would sink any other government. We're not far off that ourselves.

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On the legal definition of rape discussion, this is about the specific legal framework in the UK and so I wouldn't favour a separate thread, which could and probably would get derailed by a much broader and more inflammatory discussion if we took it out of this thread. That's my position for now, anyway. If it does get to the point of swamping other discussion in this thread I may revisit that.

 

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3 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Wouldn’t it be better to just keep your head down there?

From our perspective yes.

But in my opinion, your typical Tory MP believes that it is perfectly right and proper that the only people that should be allowed to censure them are a special committee of other Tory MPs that will understand. I suspect also that many of them think that favours done for a consideration is simply how the world works and that, while one mustn't admit it openly, anyone who does not realise it is a naive innocent. (I am certain that that is Johnson's own opinion for example.) I think that he is quite genuinely outraged.

Incidentally, I think that is one of the reasons why they delayed lockdown so long in Spring last year - they naturally tend to judge others to be the same as themselves and assumed that a lockdown would be widely flouted.

Anyway, glad to see that our new Mr Sleaze is now resigning. By past record, he will crop up in UKIP in a few years time.

 

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26 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

The slimebag has resigned. 

 

His fucking statement tho. :ack: :ack: :ack:

He had a pretty big majority, and I doubt the people of North Shropshire will do the right thing, so I expect they'll just elect another fetid Tory homunculus.

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Just read it. Considering that he has invariably been the one to use his wife's suicide as a weapon and a reason why he should be let off, while everyone else has tiptoed around it, his

Quote

My children have therefore asked me to leave politics altogether, for my sake as well as theirs. I agree with them. I do not want my wife's memory and reputation to become a political football. Above all, I always put my family first.

is nauseating cant.

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