Football: We'll be here until we get the draw we want!

[Spockydog]

1 minute ago, Tywin et al. said:

Lol. Want a lesson on Miami and LA, two cities I love and lived in for brief periods, who produce an absurd amount of professional talent, specifically from South Central and where I really loved, Liberty City?

Pah. Our urchins don't need guns to fuck people up.

Come back to me when you've got evidence of a horse getting punched stateside.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

3 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

Pah. Our urchins don't need guns to fuck people up.

Come back to me when you've got evidence of a horse getting punched stateside.

Still, it ain't the same game bro. The wild west is live state side, even when you're not in a place called Vice City. 

Also, @A Horse Named Stranger was deeply traumatized by the repeated use of "beating a dead horse," so maybe we shouldn't use his kind as a whipping boy right now.

[mormont]

Re: the fouling discussion. If you're dismissing the genuine advantage conferred in football by reacting to a foul, and doing so with the very knee-jerk traditional view of 'being physically tough and ignoring pain is just inherently morally superior, it just is OK?', maybe do a little reflection on where that view comes from and how it got into your value system to the point where you don't even think about it any more.

If the rules reward certain reactions, then it's not soft to react that way - it's smart. And I'm going to say that I'd prefer the rules to err on the side of rewarding an exaggerated reaction to a tackle rather than potentially ignoring a genuine injury.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

26 minutes ago, mormont said:

Re: the fouling discussion. If you're dismissing the genuine advantage conferred in football by reacting to a foul, and doing so with the very knee-jerk traditional view of 'being physically tough and ignoring pain is just inherently morally superior, it just is OK?', maybe do a little reflection on where that view comes from and how it got into your value system to the point where you don't even think about it any more.

If the rules reward certain reactions, then it's not soft to react that way - it's smart. And I'm going to say that I'd prefer the rules to err on the side of rewarding an exaggerated reaction to a tackle rather than potentially ignoring a genuine injury.

And I would just counter this by saying in every game I've seen, at least a half dozen times players throw themselves to the ground while barely being touched and act like they just suffered the worst injury of their lives. I cannot respect that.

[Spockydog]

What gets me is the holding of the face when (sometimes extremely minimal) contact has been made with their shoulders, or anywhere else above the waist.

I'm not sure how these players have the neck to show their face in public.

[Soylent Brown]

Everyone knows the toughest dudes are the ones in the sport where even their pads wear pads. Okay!

Tywin, it sounds like you just need to stop watching football if it annoys you so much.

[polishgenius]

 

 

6 hours ago, ljkeane said:

Come on. I've played football plenty of times, I've spent most of my life playing rugby in the forwards were large men coming down from quite a height landing on your feet etc in a lineout isn't uncommon. Yeah, it probably hurt, it may well have hurt enough for him to collapse to the floor, although I'm dubious, but it hurt enough for him to have to lie prone on the floor unmoving as play went on? Fuck off it did.

 

I played rugby. I took some knocks in my time (in both that and football). Some of them hurt more in the long run than getting a stud in the tendon, but none of them were as instantaneously movement-stopping except a kick in the nuts. 

I think you can make an argument that De Gea held on more dramatically than he needed to in the knowledge he wasn't gonna be useful for the next few seconds, to try to get play stopped, but not that him actually going down is implausible.

 

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

Lol. Want a lesson on Miami and LA, two cities I love and lived in for brief periods, who produce an absurd amount of professional talent, specifically from South Central and where I really loved, Liberty City?

 

What's that got to do with the price of fish? Gridiron players not being soft doesn't mean that football players are.


I think the argument against softness can best be given by how Ronaldo tends to react (or tended to, he plays less in a manner that gets him in those situations in general these days) when he was actually fouled. He was easily one of the most dramatic fakers around in his time but he'd also fairly frequently come off with bleeding shins or ankles from times he did actually get fouled but didn't react coz he was busy trying to make the defender look like a mug. And he couldn't be kicked out of a game, that just didn't work on him. Massive, embarrassing cheat, but not soft. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

15 minutes ago, Soylent Brown said:

Everyone knows the toughest dudes are the ones in the sport where even their pads wear pads. Okay!

Tywin, it sounds like you just need to stop watching football if it annoys you so much.

Catch a pass over the middle and receive head to head contact and call me, k? I've been on both sides of that and it's not fun.

It's not that I need to stop watching the game, it's that we need to stop rewarding guys who fall down with minimal contact, especially around the penalty box and make a scene about it when there was nothing to it. It's the same thing that was making basketball less enjoyable to watch in recent years and the NBA realized it and corrected it this season by not giving players these cheap, fake, bogus fouls. The EPL can do it too, and it will result in a better product. Every sport can be improved upon, don't be reflexive to the suggestion of change.

25 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

What's that got to do with the price of fish? Gridiron players not being soft doesn't mean that football players are.

They are when the wind blows and they fall over. Can you admit that happens far too often today?

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I think the argument against softness can best be given by how Ronaldo tends to react (or tended to, he plays less in a manner that gets him in those situations in general these days) when he was actually fouled. He was easily one of the most dramatic fakers around in his time but he'd also fairly frequently come off with bleeding shins or ankles from times he did actually get fouled but didn't react coz he was busy trying to make the defender look like a mug. And he couldn't be kicked out of a game, that just didn't work on him. Massive, embarrassing cheat, but not soft. 

So why can't there be some balance? He shouldn't have to sell a call on the one hand when he was clearly fouled, but on the other he shouldn't be encouraged to make a scene at any contact to try and draw one. Again, using the NBA as a comparison, James Harden kind of ruined the sport because he was hunting fouls, not actually trying to score, and the NBA is actively working to correct this now. The EPL can do the same and they need to be even more aggressive in carding dives.

[Mexal]

Martinelli showing some good finishes. Glad he's finally getting a run. Makes the side more dangerous since he actually runs behind.

[Raja]

Man - I wish we had gotten Tammy Abraham from chelsea, he would complete this side

[Consigliere]

6 minutes ago, Raja said:

Man - I wish we had gotten Tammy Abraham from chelsea, he would complete this side

There's been some reports that your lot have Calvert-Lewin on the shortlist. Apparently Everton are in a spot of bother FFP wise and might need to sell - there were reports that DCL and/or Richarlison could be sold to raise funds.

[Raja]

6 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

There's been some reports that your lot have Calvert-Lewin on the shortlist. Apparently Everton are in a spot of bother FFP wise and might need to sell - there were reports that DCL and/or Richarlison could be sold to raise funds.

He's going to be mega expensive though. And injured a fair amount, or maybe I am being unfair?

[Consigliere]

7 minutes ago, Raja said:

He's going to be mega expensive though.

Normally he would be. Not sure just how bad Everton's financial issues are though. Going by this past transfer window, it does appear that their ability to invest without selling first is severely limited. I expect he'd still cost in the £50m range what with the English tax and all. Also depends what happens with Richarlison - apparently PSG are interested.

 

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And injured a fair amount, or maybe I am being unfair?

He doesn't seem to be that inury prone overall. He's missed 16 games thus far this season due to a fractured toe but only missed a total 18 games due to injury in the previous 5 seasons.

 

[Soylent Brown]

Yeah, I don't think DCL has a bad injury history, just a bad current injury.

I like him a lot, he's a nightmare for centre backs.

[Winterfell is Burning]

Former Brazil legend Ronaldo bought his ex-club, Cruzeiro

Reports said he beat Liverpool owners FSG for the deal.

Decent price too, a few years ago they probably would have been worth 3 times as much, but now would have been bankrupt sooner or later without that deal. 

[mormont]

6 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

And I would just counter this by saying in every game I've seen, at least a half dozen times players throw themselves to the ground while barely being touched and act like they just suffered the worst injury of their lives. I cannot respect that.

This is not so much countering as reinforcing my point, by doing again exactly what I was talking about.

[Rorshach]

1 hour ago, Soylent Brown said:

Yeah, I don't think DCL has a bad injury history, just a bad current injury.

I like him a lot, he's a nightmare for centre backs.

Just to second the bolded. He hasn't been missing much at all earlier.

Also, as to who we're planning to sell ... no real idea, but Digne not getting games does seem ominous. Also, talk of Iwobi going, which I pray is true. And we still have the dead weight Tosun around, if anyone's willing.

Anyone? At all? Please? Pretty please??

Also, should anyone ask me (no, they won't), I'd cut Holgate in a second. 

[Soylent Brown]

Joyce on Twitter mentioned something the other day about Benitez saying that Digne was available, and then Digne ruling himself out shortly after, so not sure what's going on there.

[Iskaral Pust]

Everton have plenty of funds available from Moshiri but FFP really constrains them.  It would help them a lot if they could raise new revenue to expand the FFP allowance.  So selling a player with large wages both increases revenue and reduces cost to give them new headroom for FFP.  But their only marketable asset is the player they should keep and build around.

All those transfer fees (half a billion pounds!) plus huge wages and agent fees turned into a money pit.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

52 minutes ago, mormont said:

This is not so much countering as reinforcing my point, by doing again exactly what I was talking about.

Which is the antithesis of athletics. That's what you're supporting when you say players should exaggerate fouls. Flopping isn't noble.