Heartofice Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 How much power does Fergie actually have in these decisions though? How many of the appointments were on his word vs someone like Ed Woodward's? Seems like Moyes was his idea, but the others? Many of these decisions seem to be made by people with only a passing knowledge of football, looking for a big name to distract people, very much in line with their transfer policy at certain points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 Yeah, I don't think past Moyes Fergie actually had a say. There may have been decisions made by people who were trying to give the impression of continuity from him, along the line, hell some of them may have looked for his opinion, but he's not involved in the decision-making process in any meaningful way as far as I can tell. And with us appointing a DoF last year and hiring Ragnick as an advisor after his caretaker stint, I don't think there's any intent to look to Fergie now either. It really was a massive problem for Gill to retire at the same time as Fergie. His guidance could have got Moyes over his hesitation in the transfer market and definitely helped our transfer negotiation be less amateur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryk Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 20 minutes ago, MercenaryChef said: ol' fergie made some horrible player signings during his final years. he then saddled moyes with an unsustainable situation. his failure wasn't a shock. I think people blame the ownership for that though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 15 minutes ago, Darryk said: I think people blame the ownership for that though. It was the Glazers fault. People forget the crippling repayments of the Glazers debts during the first 5 or 6 years of the takeover. United were paying more than £100m per year to service that debt. Fergies hands were largely tied in the transfer market and there was only so much he could do. Fergie always towed the company line however and neither did he go bitching and moaning to the press about the board so he gets blame because he wasn't a crybaby manchild. It's not Fergies fault that Moyes was rubbish, couldn't make up his mind on who to sign so wasted an entire transfer window and was generally out of his depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baxus Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 Moyes was rubbish, but Fergie's squad was full of ageing players - Van der Saar, Vidic, Ferdinand, Evra, Carrick, Giggs etc. If I remember correctly, Fergie even brought Scholes out of retirement for that last title. That squad wasn't meant to carry on for long and Fergie must've known that. Not sure if any other manager could've taken that squad and continued bringing in trophies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 Yes the squad was ageing and a rebuild was needed. Moyes himself did waste an opportunity to refresh the squad a bit by not being able to make up his mind on transfer targets and ended up panic buying Fellaini as his only signing in that window. I also firmly believe that Ferguson would have started a rebuild had he been able to but was restricted in the transfer market due to the extraordinarily high cost of servicing the Glazer debt at that time. Expecting Moyes to challenge for the league with that squad would have been too much to ask but 4th place or at the very least a EL spot was not too much to ask for. He massively underachieved and is the only manager post Ferguson (thus far anyway) to have failed to qualify for Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baxus Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 51 minutes ago, Consigliere said: I also firmly believe that Ferguson would have started a rebuild had he been able to but was restricted in the transfer market due to the extraordinarily high cost of servicing the Glazer debt at that time. But that's not really true now, is it? In 2012/2013, United's transfer activity was: Quote MANCHESTER UNITED 2012-13 TRANSFERS Man Utd 2012-13 signings Robin van Persie: From Arsenal (£27.63m) Shinji Kagawa: From Borussia Dortmund (£14.40m) Wilfried Zaha: From Crystal Palace (£10.58m) Nick Powell: From Crewe Alexandra (£6.75m) Ángelo Henríquez: From Club Universidad de Chile (£4.95m) Alexander Büttner: From Vitesse Arnhem (£4.50m) Man Utd 2012-13 sales Dimitar Berbatov: To Fulham (£4.50m) Ji-sung Park: To Queens Park Rangers (£2.79m) Ritchie De Laet: To Leicester City (£1.13m) Tomasz Kuszczak: To Brighton (Free transfer) Zeki Fryers: To Standard Liège: (Free transfer) Michael Owen: Free transfer That's close to 60 million pounds net spend for that season only. In 2011, United signed Phil Jones, Ashley Young and David DeGea for around 50 million pounds without making any significant sales. I can't be bothered to go back even further, but I don't remember United actually missing out on their main targets in the market due to lack of funds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soylent Brown Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 Yeah, it wasn't that United didn't spend any money, just that Fergie bizarrely decided to ignore the midfield until it fell to bits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winterfell is Burning Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 Pogba left the club because Ferguson chose to bring Scholes out of retirement rather than giving him a shot.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 United did spend money but it's also disingenuous to think that hundreds of millions of pounds being paid to service the debt did not have an impact on United's transfer targets. United's transfer spending reduced quite a lot post the Glazer takeover during Ferguson's time. More money became available after refinancing and the high interest PIK loans were finally paid off but this was more towards the end of Ferguson's time. Just for comparison, under Moyes and LVG, United spent more in those 3 seasons than in the 8 seasons under Ferguson post Glazer takeover. United's net spend from 05/06 to 12/13 was around £100m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Posted February 10, 2022 Author Share Posted February 10, 2022 I will actually pack football in and go watch Tennis for life if Saka goes to Liverpool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 Probably just a ploy from Saka's agent to put pressure on Arsenal's board to offer a bumper new contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Posted February 10, 2022 Author Share Posted February 10, 2022 Probably true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baxus Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 49 minutes ago, Consigliere said: United did spend money but it's also disingenuous to think that hundreds of millions of pounds being paid to service the debt did not have an impact on United's transfer targets. United's transfer spending reduced quite a lot post the Glazer takeover during Ferguson's time. More money became available after refinancing and the high interest PIK loans were finally paid off but this was more towards the end of Ferguson's time. Just for comparison, under Moyes and LVG, United spent more in those 3 seasons than in the 8 seasons under Ferguson post Glazer takeover. United's net spend from 05/06 to 12/13 was around £100m. Fergie never had a team in such a dire need of rebuilding as the one he handed off to Moyes. In addition, players signing fees increased significantly over the decade you speak of so that would also need to be factored in. Third factor is that Fergie was probably the biggest advantage United had over other clubs when signing players. Under Fergie trophies were as guaranteed as they could be. Once he left, everyone knew a major rebuild was in order and major motivation for players to come to United was no longer to win trophies but to make money instead. Sure, all those loans were a factor, but let's not pretend United were poverty-stricken. I mean, Arsenal built a whole new stadium and paid it off while maintaining the level required to play in Champions League for almost 20 years straight and they did it on a definitely more limited budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AncalagonTheBlack Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 #LFC v Leicester: Alisson; Alexander-Arnold, Matip, Van Dijk, Robertson; Fabinho, Thiago, Jones; Jota, Firmino, Diaz. Subs: Kelleher, Konate, Milner, Keita, Salah, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Minamino, Tsimikas, Elliott. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 Like I said, Salah won't start. Called it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Antony Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 Diaz hype Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soylent Brown Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 Firmino is so fucking shit. Every pass underhit, every first touch loose, and he's always much more keen to pass it back than head towards goal himself. No wonder he hasn't scored at Anfield for over a year. Diaz looks good at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 1 hour ago, baxus said: Fergie never had a team in such a dire need of rebuilding as the one he handed off to Moyes. In addition, players signing fees increased significantly over the decade you speak of so that would also need to be factored in. Third factor is that Fergie was probably the biggest advantage United had over other clubs when signing players. Under Fergie trophies were as guaranteed as they could be. Once he left, everyone knew a major rebuild was in order and major motivation for players to come to United was no longer to win trophies but to make money instead. Sure, all those loans were a factor, but let's not pretend United were poverty-stricken. I mean, Arsenal built a whole new stadium and paid it off while maintaining the level required to play in Champions League for almost 20 years straight and they did it on a definitely more limited budget. Nobody pretended that United were poverty stricken. Only that Ferguson's hands were tied to an extent in the transfer market which is true. Furthermore, the Arsenal example is stupid - repayments on their stadium loan reached nowhere near the levels United were shelling out to service the Glazer debt especially in the first 6 years when the repayments were ridiculously high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AncalagonTheBlack Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 11 minutes ago, Soylent Brown said: Firmino is so fucking shit. Every pass underhit, every first touch loose, and he's always much more keen to pass it back than head towards goal himself. No wonder he hasn't scored at Anfield for over a year. Diaz looks good at least. And Jones keeps the ball too long instead of releasing it, thus giving/having it nicked off him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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