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The man who brought Gendry to the blacksmith


Zzz_243
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I wonder who's the man who brought Gendry to the blacksmith and payed for his silence. Someone who wanted to protect him or someone who wanted to have a bastard Baratheon as a possible pawn in the future? From the description, I thought it might be Varys (the man is described as being large and with wide shoulders), but I can't understand why would he do that. But, his plans, contrary to Littlefinger's ones, are quite obscure up to now and we still don't know what he is up to, what he wants to do with Daenerys and "Aegon", so maybe he has something in mind with Gendry too (he is also the one who sends him to the Wall to protect him from Cersei).

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37 minutes ago, Seams said:

I have seen others in this forum comment that it was likely Varys. I had always assumed it was Robert. 

The master says that the man was shorter than Ned, so it wasn't Robert. It could have sent one of his men, but it's unlikely he did it (assuming that he know about Gendry). Plus why was the mysterious men camouflaged?

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2 hours ago, Seams said:

I have seen others in this forum comment that it was likely Varys. I had always assumed it was Robert. 

If it was Robert he would surely have been recognized. Plus Robert isn’t exactly someone who does distasteful things himself.

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I think we've met him.  It's Lord Belmore.

Quote

“The truth now,” Ned urged. “The streets are full of strong boys. The day you take on an apprentice without a fee will be the day the Wall comes down. Who paid for him?”
        “A lord,” the master said reluctantly. “He gave no name, and wore no sigil on his coat. He paid in gold, twice the customary sum, and said he was paying once for the boy, and once for my silence.”
        “Describe him.”
        “He was stout, round of shoulder, not so tall as you. Brown beard, but there was a bit of red in it, I’ll swear. He wore a rich cloak, that I do remember, heavy purple velvet worked with silver threads, but the hood shadowed his face and I never did see him clear.” He hesitated a moment. “My lord, I want no trouble.”

Quote

Petyr had given her a roll of arms to study, so she knew their heraldry if not their faces. The red castle was Redfort, plainly; a short man with a neat grey beard and mild eyes. Lady Anya was the only woman amongst the Lords Declarant, and wore a deep green mantle with the broken wheel of Waynwood picked out in beads of jet. Six silver bells on purple, that was Belmore, pear-bellied and round of shoulder. His beard was a ginger-grey horror sprouting from a multiplicity of chins.

 

Cloak of purple and silver, check.

Substitute grey for brown because of the number of years that have passed and we get the same beard.

Same round shoulder and his stoutness has turned into fat over the years.

As a vale lord or future vale lord it would have made sense that he would have accompanied Lord Arryn to King's Landing.  It also makes sense that Lord Arryn would have sent one of his men to bring Robert's bastard to the blacksmith.

What's more, we're even given blacksmith imagery when we first meet Lord Belmore:

Quote

Belmore was soon puffing like a bellows,”

And we even have another common set of imagery with the bells:

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“The girl did have hair like the old king’s, Arya thought; a great thick mop of it, as black as coal. That doesn’t mean anything, though. Gendry has the same kind of hair too. Lots of people have black hair.
            “I’m named Bella,” the girl told Gendry. “For the battle. I bet I could ring your bell, too. You want to?”

And since Lord Belmore now appears to be one of the lords in Petyr's pocket, it makes me wonder how long that relationship has gone on, and when could Petyr have first learned of Gendry's significance.

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16 hours ago, Frey family reunion said:

I think we've met him.  It's Lord Belmore.

Cloak of purple and silver, check.

Substitute grey for brown because of the number of years that have passed and we get the same beard.

Same round shoulder and his stoutness has turned into fat over the years.

As a vale lord or future vale lord it would have made sense that he would have accompanied Lord Arryn to King's Landing.  It also makes sense that Lord Arryn would have sent one of his men to bring Robert's bastard to the blacksmith.

What's more, we're even given blacksmith imagery when we first meet Lord Belmore:

And we even have another common set of imagery with the bells:

And since Lord Belmore now appears to be one of the lords in Petyr's pocket, it makes me wonder how long that relationship has gone on, and when could Petyr have first learned of Gendry's significance.

Interesting but that still doesn't explain why the man was cloaked, like he was trying to hide his appearence. And why pay for the silence?

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3 hours ago, Zzz_243 said:

Interesting but that still doesn't explain why the man was cloaked, like he was trying to hide his appearence. And why pay for the silence?

He was with Jon in KIng's Landing, pretty sure Gold Cloaks and people arround would have seen him and they could describe him if necessary, he was a lord along with the hand at Red Keep. Robert was a new king at this point and Gendry was his first known son. Jon had seen Joffrey and probably had the idea that he wasn't Robert's son in the back of his mind. They already had seen other bastard of him, all of them with Baratheon features, Genry is one more clue on the situation and he was also the oldest male (Also I think Genry is a kid that Robert might like, stubborn strong tall, like him)

Keeping him would be a great backup plan, but also pretty dangerous considering Tywin and Cersei wouldn't be that happy about it, I think at this point Edric had been born too, another male bastard would be a huge problem. Jon and Stannis both knew about Gendry, but giving him themselves would be risky, a person that Jon trust though it would be great. 

About the extra money, imagine bringing a kid and paying a lot for him, meaning you are rich as shit and leaving after. It would be the talk of the town on who is this kid and why someone paid that much for him. 

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I really like the Lord Belmore theory. @Frey family reunion provides good matching details to prove the point. 

Robert was hidden during the Battle of the Bells - so a "bell" hiding Gendry would be a good parallel to his father's episode of hiding. We are told that Robert had been wounded in the previous battle but I wonder whether he had been killed and was waiting to recover (in the manner we expect Jon Snow to recover after his death at Castle Black). 

Stony Sept, where Robert was hidden, sounds a bit like a tomb. I think there is wordplay around Flea Bottom (Leaf Tomb?) and Tobho Mott (Hot Tomb?) so Gendry's hiding place may have been a symbolic tomb as well.

There may have even been a doppelganger for Robert at the Battle of the Bells as Jon Connington recalls Robert almost killing him in battle and Harwin says that Robert and Connington never met on that battle field. This would be similar to Renly's ghost engaging in combat at the Blackwater. Brienne also finds Gendry to be strikingly similar to Renly. 

Robert was hidden at Stony Sept and Arya hides her sword in a stone step. Gendry is closely associated with swords and spends some time traveling with Arya and her sword. 

Linking Belmore to Robert may also be an easter egg that GRRM has hidden for us. In the U.S., there is a legendary comedy sketch were an actor named Christopher Walken kept telling a rock band that he wanted "More cowbell" in the song they were recording. When I heard the name "Belmore," I immediately thought of "More cowbell." But Christopher Walken is also famous for his Oscar-winning performance in a movie called The Deer Hunter. Because of the Baratheon stag sigil, it seems like GRRM might deliberately make an allusion to The Deer Hunter by using "Belmore" as the name for the character who hides a stag.

Edit: I just watched the YouTube of the "more cowbell" sketch and the song being played is "Don't Fear the Reaper." Just sayin'.

Edited by Seams
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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, Wolfcrow said:

He was with Jon in KIng's Landing, pretty sure Gold Cloaks and people arround would have seen him and they could describe him if necessary, he was a lord along with the hand at Red Keep. Robert was a new king at this point and Gendry was his first known son. Jon had seen Joffrey and probably had the idea that he wasn't Robert's son in the back of his mind. They already had seen other bastard of him, all of them with Baratheon features, Genry is one more clue on the situation and he was also the oldest male (Also I think Genry is a kid that Robert might like, stubborn strong tall, like him)

Keeping him would be a great backup plan, but also pretty dangerous considering Tywin and Cersei wouldn't be that happy about it, I think at this point Edric had been born too, another male bastard would be a huge problem. Jon and Stannis both knew about Gendry, but giving him themselves would be risky, a person that Jon trust though it would be great. 

About the extra money, imagine bringing a kid and paying a lot for him, meaning you are rich as shit and leaving after. It would be the talk of the town on who is this kid and why someone paid that much for him. 

But Jon Arryn was asking informations about the boy to the blacksmith. If he already knew about him, it wouldn't make sense to do that. Instead it makes more sense that he learned about Gendry when he was searching for Robert's bastards. I still think that the hooded man was Varys (his camouflage looks like the kind Varys would use, like when he visits Ned in the cells).

Edited by Zzz_243
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On 6/25/2022 at 5:38 PM, Frey family reunion said:

I think we've met him.  It's Lord Belmore.

Cloak of purple and silver, check.

Substitute grey for brown because of the number of years that have passed and we get the same beard.

Same round shoulder and his stoutness has turned into fat over the years.

As a vale lord or future vale lord it would have made sense that he would have accompanied Lord Arryn to King's Landing.  It also makes sense that Lord Arryn would have sent one of his men to bring Robert's bastard to the blacksmith.

What's more, we're even given blacksmith imagery when we first meet Lord Belmore:

And we even have another common set of imagery with the bells:

And since Lord Belmore now appears to be one of the lords in Petyr's pocket, it makes me wonder how long that relationship has gone on, and when could Petyr have first learned of Gendry's significance.

Nicely done, m'lord.

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7 hours ago, Zzz_243 said:

But Jon Arryn was asking informations about the boy to the blacksmith. If he already knew about him, it wouldn't make sense to do that. Instead it makes more sense that he learned about Gendry when he was searching for Robert's bastards. I still think that the hooded man was Varys (his camouflage looks like the kind Varys would use, like when he visits Ned in the cells).

Varys is an effeminate eunuch there is no way he can grow such a beard (Edit: @Mourning Star corrected me, he can put on a beard, still as I said in a another comment, not a chance it was Varys for many reasons). Yes, he can go undercover with different clothes and smells as we have seen, but he doesn't change his face. Also I doubt Varys would have gone dressed as a Lord, he would have been simpler. 

Now, we saw Jon and Stannis asking for Gendry from the start, they didn't ask to see all the boys and search for Genry or talk to Genrdy, bc of his looks. 

Quote

"They asked to see the boy," the armorer said, "so I took them back to the forge."

They knew he was there and also the questions are not to see if indeed the boy is a bastard and who brought him there, they knew who he is and they are asking for his well-being, I doubt Tobho woudn't say if Stannis and Jon asked the stuff that Ned did. Instead they were the for the boy and they were in search for his mom. 

Quote

"He asked me questions is all, m'lord."

"What sort of questions?"

The boy shrugged. "How was I, and was I well treated, and if I liked the work, and stuff about my mother. Who she was and what she looked like and all."

They knew about him, they probably were searching brothels for him mother. I think they were looking for her to see if Robert remembered her and if indeed had sex with Robert and it was not just a blue-eyes black haired kid, so they can have some short of evidence if they needed to present him at court. 

Edited by Wolfcrow
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49 minutes ago, Wolfcrow said:

Varys is an effeminate eunuch there is no way he can grow such a beard. Yes, he can go undercover with different clothes and smells as we have seen, but he doesn't change his face.

This is factually untrue.

The eunuch's plump cheeks were covered with a dark stubble of beard. Ned felt the coarse hair with his fingers. Varys had transformed himself into a grizzled turnkey, reeking of sweat and sour wine. 

Now if Varys can "change his face" in the manner of the Faceless Men or simply has better than is possible in real life mundane disguises, is unclear. But without any shred of a doubt he can do it.

On 6/25/2022 at 5:38 PM, Frey family reunion said:

I think we've met him.  It's Lord Belmore.

This is great, you've convinced me.

Edited by Mourning Star
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24 minutes ago, Mourning Star said:

This is factually untrue.

My bad forgot about it, still not the way Varys would do something like this. He wore pretty flashy clothes and went with a lot of money to do an undercover job? I don't buy it. Why not dreesed like a common wealthy person, merchant or something and offer a bigger amount of money (since we know that Tobho didn't need an extra person) for the smith to keep Genrdy and end it there? That is way more stealthy, something we know Varys is. There is no freaking way he would wear his purple and silver robes to do a job like this, it's way to flashy and Varys is many stuff, but not stupid. 

And also, Genrdy could be a problem to his plan with Aegon. He said that he had the baby from the start, why secure the first male son of Robert, bc it seems they wanted to have him secure and they knew that he was indeed Robert's first son. Baratheons had supporters and amd Targaryens were not that loved, if the word of Gendry was spread and on the other side was Aegon, big chance lords and smallfolk would side with Genrdy over Aegon, even though a bastard. 

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On 6/25/2022 at 11:54 AM, frenin said:

Likely Jon Arryn

Not personally, he’s blond (or white haired), taller than Ned and as longtime Hand would undoubtedly be known by sight. But one of his men seems likely, or Varys. 
 

edit: post made pointless by FFR. Also reminded me that this man is specifically ‘round’ shouldered’ which contrasts directly with one of the few direct physical descriptions of JA, ie ‘broad shouldered’. Pretty much everything else we know about how he looks is shown via Harry the Heir being supposedly a remarkable likeness. 

Edited by James Arryn
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5 minutes ago, Wolfcrow said:

My bad forgot about it, still not the way Varys would do something like this. He wore pretty flashy clothes and went with a lot of money to do an undercover job? I don't buy it. Why not dreesed like a common wealthy person, merchant or something and offer a bigger amount of money (since we know that Tobho didn't need an extra person) for the smith to keep Genrdy and end it there? That is way more stealthy, something we know Varys is. There is no freaking way he would wear his purple and silver robes to do a job like this, it's way to flashy and Varys is many stuff, but not stupid. 

And also, Genrdy could be a problem to his plan with Aegon. He said that he had the baby from the start, why secure the first male son of Robert, bc it seems they wanted to have him secure and they knew that he was indeed Robert's first son. Baratheons had supporters and amd Targaryens were not that loved, if the word of Gendry was spread and on the other side was Aegon, big chance lords and smallfolk would side with Genrdy over Aegon, even though a bastard. 

I never meant to suggest that it was Varys, just that he can absolutely transform his face beyond what is realistically possible with mundane disguise.

I'm sold on Belmore, at least for the moment, given the evidence provided above.

Edited by Mourning Star
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