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Littlefinger's boast


Angel Eyes
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So in AGOT, Tyrion mentions that Littlefinger has apparently told everyone at court he took Catelyn's virginity (really Lysa's but don't tell him that). If what Tyrion says is true, how does Littlefinger still have his neck? If he's lying, why would Littlefinger tell something like that to Tyrion, who could also make him lose his neck?

Edited by Angel Eyes
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15 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

So in AGOT, Tyrion mentions that Littlefinger has apparently told everyone at court he took Catelyn's virginity (really Lysa's but don't tell him that). If what Tyrion says is true, how does Littlefinger still have his neck? If he's lying, why would Littlefinger tell something like that to Tyrion, who could also make him lose his neck?

Are you talking about when Tryion becomes Hand of the King? To this date, that remains one of the biggest plot holes in the series, IMO. Killing Littlefinger, should have been one of the first things Tyrion did once he became Hand. GRRM tries to come up with excuses, for this, but they all seemed pretty weak to me.

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Just now, sifth said:

Are you talking about when Tryion becomes Hand of the King? To this date, that remains one of the biggest plot holes in the series, IMO. Killing Littlefinger, should have been one of the first things Tyrion did once he became Hand. GRRM tries to come up with excuses, for this, but they all seemed pretty weak to me.

I'm talking about any point beforehand, since Littlefinger had apparently been boasting about taking Catelyn for awhile.

As for during Tyrion's tenure as Hand, at that point he has a bit more of a bone with Littlefinger, primarily the whole catspaw business.

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8 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

Slander.

Juvenile slander. Nor made against the royal household.

Plus Petyr has pull, his reputation of creating money from nothing is seen as near magical. (It's just credit lol, whole world works on it, well not their world I guess).

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1 hour ago, Hugorfonics said:

Juvenile slander. Nor made against the royal household.

Plus Petyr has pull, his reputation of creating money from nothing is seen as near magical. (It's just credit lol, whole world works on it, well not their world I guess).

:agree:

@Angel Eyes

This. He's too valuable to ditch over something like this. If he claimed he had the queen, maybe . . .

And I'm not sure this is a boast. More like a rumor that he hasn't denied, the kind of stuff that is rampant at court.

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3 hours ago, sifth said:

Are you talking about when Tryion becomes Hand of the King? To this date, that remains one of the biggest plot holes in the series, IMO. Killing Littlefinger, should have been one of the first things Tyrion did once he became Hand. GRRM tries to come up with excuses, for this, but they all seemed pretty weak to me.

For me the biggest head scratcher is why Varys was not only left alive after the Rebellion but he kept his spot as head spymaster.  Varys should have been the first one on the chopping block.

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

For me the biggest head scratcher is why Varys was not only left alive after the Rebellion but he kept his spot as head spymaster.  Varys should have been the first one on the chopping block.

To some extent, I think Robert wasn't exactly interested in tearing everything down, hence why Varys, Pycelle, Barristan, and Jaime were kept on from previous regimes (plus he probably wouldn't have understood Pycelle and Varys' importance). Jon Arryn was already designated as Hand of the King, and there likely was some measure of changeover with Master of Coin since Littlefinger was barely a blip on Robert's radar and likely another Master of Laws since Renly had to come of age before sitting on the Small Council.

Edited by Angel Eyes
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3 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

I'm talking about any point beforehand, since Littlefinger had apparently been boasting about taking Catelyn for awhile.

As for during Tyrion's tenure as Hand, at that point he has a bit more of a bone with Littlefinger, primarily the whole catspaw business.

Tyrion was never as ruthless as he thought himself to be, murdered singers aside. Littlefinger, Varys, and Pycelle are all people he's plotting against but he doesn't want them dead rather than beaten. Littlefinger is also one of the Lannister's supposed allies since it was his treachery that got Ned Stark captured. Tyrion was willing to send Janos Slynt to the wall but that was because he had Tywin's unofficial approval.

Even then he got chastised for it. But it wasn't overturned because Slynt being Lord of Harrenhal offended Tywin's sense of pride and that's literally 99.99% of what motivates Tywin.

But Littlefinger being crude is something Tyrion isn't going to begrudge. Tyrion probably assumes he's telling the truth.

Edited by C.T. Phipps
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Aside from Littlefinger, and Lysa due to her being jealous over the fact that Littlefinger still loved Catelyn and didn't remember sleeping with her (with all the nefast implications it has), everyone most certainely didn't take Littlefinger's boast seriously and just viewed it as a joke or an empty boast coming from a whiny boy that just tried to make up for the fact that he could never had someone too high and beautiful for him to have. 

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6 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

:agree:

@Angel Eyes

This. He's too valuable to ditch over something like this. If he claimed he had the queen, maybe . . .

And I'm not sure this is a boast. More like a rumor that he hasn't denied, the kind of stuff that is rampant at court.

It is a boast although i'm not so sure he would be stupid to say it in front of Robert or Arryn, the reason why he kept his neck was simply because no Starks were available to kill him.

 

7 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Juvenile slander. Nor made against the royal household.

Plus Petyr has pull, his reputation of creating money from nothing is seen as near magical. (It's just credit lol, whole world works on it, well not their world I guess).

You can't hardly be boasting about fucking the Hand's wife and the King's (and one of the most powerful ords in the land) best friend wife, be it royal blood or not.  Petyr would have lost  more than a finger for that, then again, Petyr gets away with lots of curious things because it's imperative he does si...

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Who is going to insist that LF be prosecuted for this? Even if someone somehow comes to the conclusion that it is in their best interest to push for this, then LF just denies it and then what?

Regardless of who it agitates I don't see Robert as the type to go seriously punishing ppl for bragging about sex, unless Cersei is nagging him to do so. And people tend to have a sense for who they can and can't gossip with, without it turning into something.

Edited by chrisdaw
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16 hours ago, frenin said:

You can't hardly be boasting about fucking the Hand's wife and the King's (and one of the most powerful ords in the land) best friend wife, be it royal blood or not.  Petyr would have lost  more than a finger for that, then again, Petyr gets away with lots of curious things because it's imperative he does si

That exactly, he does not boast to have a affair with a nobody, we are talking about one of the most important lady in the realm, the daughter of one of the most powerfull lords in the Kingdom, the wife to another and in-law to a third who happens to be the second most important person in the realm. Not to forget that the King himself see the husband of that lady has a brother. Against that Littlefinger is a literal nobody who is good with numbers and can be replaced with a huge number of candidates.

 

13 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

Who is going to insist that LF be prosecuted for this? Even if someone somehow comes to the conclusion that it is in their best interest to push for this, then LF just denies it and then what?

Regardless of who it agitates I don't see Robert as the type to go seriously punishing ppl for bragging about sex, unless Cersei is nagging him to do so. And people tend to have a sense for who they can and can't gossip with, without it turning into something.

He is technically insulting the honor of quite a few people by such boasting, and like I mentionned above, all these people are at the very top of the feudal pyramid. Littlefinger is technically a lord but he really is a nobody, a very minor lord who sure has a lot of wits and is extremely intelligent but so far the picking order he is not a threat to anyone. Such boast should at least get him sent back to his tower in the middle of nowhere if anyone was to take it badly, and I dont think Jon would take it happely.

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I wonder whether GRRM wants us to examine Littlefinger's boast in the same light (or similar light) to Sansa's memory of the "unkiss"? We have read and re-read the chapter where The Hound comes to Sansa's bedchamber and we know there simply was no kiss. But Ser Dontos kissed her. And she kissed the sword Hearteater. Why does she have it in her head that she kissed (or was kissed by) Sandor Clegane?

Perhaps we need to examine clues surrounding the boast from Baelish about deflowering the Tully daughters. Is it possible it didn't really happen exactly as he describes but that the character believes, like Sansa, that it did happen? Or is the ambiguity useful to the author on some level? Is Catelyn being obtuse when she remembers being a virgin on her wedding night with Ned?

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2 hours ago, Seams said:

I wonder whether GRRM wants us to examine Littlefinger's boast in the same light (or similar light) to Sansa's memory of the "unkiss"? We have read and re-read the chapter where The Hound comes to Sansa's bedchamber and we know there simply was no kiss. But Ser Dontos kissed her. And she kissed the sword Hearteater. Why does she have it in her head that she kissed (or was kissed by) Sandor Clegane?

Perhaps we need to examine clues surrounding the boast from Baelish about deflowering the Tully daughters. Is it possible it didn't really happen exactly as he describes but that the character believes, like Sansa, that it did happen? Or is the ambiguity useful to the author on some level? Is Catelyn being obtuse when she remembers being a virgin on her wedding night with Ned?

My opinion on the unkiss is that Sansa's so damaged that she's desperately seeking through her own memories for a scrap of affection, even with someone who belittled her almost every time she interacted with him and tried to rape or kill her the last time she saw him.

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9 hours ago, Vaegon the dragonless said:

He is technically insulting the honor of quite a few people by such boasting, and like I mentionned above, all these people are at the very top of the feudal pyramid. Littlefinger is technically a lord but he really is a nobody, a very minor lord who sure has a lot of wits and is extremely intelligent but so far the picking order he is not a threat to anyone. Such boast should at least get him sent back to his tower in the middle of nowhere if anyone was to take it badly, and I dont think Jon would take it happely.

Yeah he's not boasting of it in front of JA lol.

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Who's going to take action?  Robert wouldn't care and Ned and Catelyn aren't around to complain, or, I suspect, even aware of it. 

Baelish is too important to take action against over something like this.  Besides, claiming to have had sex with a woman before her marriage, or even betrothal to her current husband, hardly sounds like a hanging offense.

It's also unclear how seriously anyone takes him, and punishing him would probably amplify the story.

Edited by Nevets
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10 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

Yeah he's not boasting of it in front of JA lol.

Oh Im sure he would not do something like that but the fact that Tyrion knew of it does seem to me that he did it to quite a few people, and if one of them re-told it to JA it could have been very bad for Littlefinger.

6 hours ago, Nevets said:

Who's going to take action?  Robert wouldn't care and Ned and Catelyn aren't around to complain, or, I suspect, even aware of it. 

Baelish is too important to take action against over something like this.  Besides, claiming to have had sex with a woman before her marriage, or even betrothal to her current husband, hardly sounds like a hanging offense.

It's also unclear how seriously anyone takes him, and punishing him would probably amplify the story.

It migth not be a hanging offence but it is a pretty serious offence in Westeros,a duel worthy offence at the least and we know that Littlefinger is not a duelist and would lose. I would agree however that the idea of giving credit to his word by punishing him could be a reason for him to be safe, especially if he dint do it constantly.

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