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What will be the reactions to Young Griff ?


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What do you think will be the reactions of all the major lords/kings and players of the game in Westeros, aside from those who already know about him (Varys, Kevan, Doran and Arianne), to Aegon VI Targaryen's appearance to his claims to the Iron Throne and of being the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Elia Martell ? 

How will the Stark kids, northern lords, Stannis, Davos and their men, Littlefinger, the Vale lords, house Tully and Frey and other rivermen, other house Lannister members (Cersei, Jaime, Daven), the Ironborn and the Sparrows react to his appearance and claim ? 

What would be their thoughts and opinions about his identity, claim and chances as a contender and king ? How seriously may they take him and his supporters ? 

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Aegon is not on solid ground, but he will be able to fool few people at the beginning.  Daenerys will put forth her claim and reveal Aegon to be a fraud.  That will be the end of Aegon's very short reign.  Daenerys will have the dragons and the experience to support her claim to Westeros.  In the end, she will be a better ruler than Aegon, Jon Snow, or Stannis could ever hope to become. 

Edited by The Lord of the Crossing
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Dorne will be pushed to join him thanks to Arianne I think.

Westerlands will once again be pushed into fighting.

The Stormlords are so unloyal that they make Walder Frey seems trust worthy... they already traded Renly for Stannis and Stannis for the Lannisters, they will probably join Young Griff. Aegon already is on their land, he will take the biggest castle there and show himself more worthy than the baby boy Tommen and his crazy mom... big bad Tywin is dead, the imp fleed, and Jaime is missing, there is nothing holding the Lannisters anymore. Turncloaks gonna turn cloak.

Northems will have way too much on their hands, they are on the middle of a civil war, and after the Boltons are dealt with there will still be Stannis, the Robb's will that point to Jon as heir and Rickon as the choice of Manderly, and there still Sansa in the hands of Little Finger the next lord of Winterfell will be hard for them to pick, a bastard, a baby or a girl. Aegon is nothing for them, nor Tommen neither the south can keep fighting over the iron chair.

The Riverlands will pray that war goes to another region for a change, then they will eat the Freys when everybody is looking somewhere else. Jaime took the hostages away and then went missing, the Freys also send half of their men to the North, there is nothing stoping the payback now.

The Reach, if the whole think about friends in the south is true will become a mess, internal fight, and Cersei already pissed the Tyrells too much, they also have Euron to deal with, too much trouble in too many places, they can't deal with it and will prioritize their own turf, the Lannisters will have to deal with Aegon on their own for a change.

The Vale is the hardest one to predict, they hate the Lannisters, but they were the first to rise against the Dragons, at the same time is hard to Imagine GRRM making them sit and wait during another war.

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He'll be sitting on the big chair, by the end of WoW and probably be a very popular king. His rebellion is going really well already and with Varys screwing things up in KL for him, it's only bound to get better. If Cersei does something insane, like blow up the sept, like she does on the show, I imagine the common people will turn on her. Though my own personal theory is, everyone will turn on her, the moment the figure out who/what Ser. Robert Strong is.

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2 hours ago, Darth Sidious said:

Folks who dislike the Lannisters, Baratheons, Tyrells, Greyjoys, will be open to give him a listen. He will win Dorne to his cause through Arrianne. But never forget what he is. A paper dragon. All roar but no flame. 

But possibly with scales.

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The thing is that Tyrion spells out that without Daenerys' support or dragons, Griff has shit. Also, there's a very good argument that if he can't marry Daenerys then he won't be able to secure the Crown so marrying Arianne is not the option that a lot of people think it is either.

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2 hours ago, C.T. Phipps said:

The thing is that Tyrion spells out that without Daenerys' support or dragons, Griff has shit. Also, there's a very good argument that if he can't marry Daenerys then he won't be able to secure the Crown so marrying Arianne is not the option that a lot of people think it is either.

To be fair Tyrion had no idea just how crazy things have become back home.

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I don't think the reactions to Young Griff will be entirely honest, rather I think that the various lords of Westeros will determine him to be either legit or fake based upon their own interests instead of whether or not they believe the story that he was whisked away from the sack of Kingslanding and raised in exile to return and save his people.

Will the Tyrells and or the Boltons see an opportunity to get off Cersei's sinking ship and still maintain their holdings? What about all of those crownlanders currently sworn to Stannis? Does Aegon provide a potential road home?

I think if the opportunity exists to use YG to further their own interests then the opportunity will be taken.

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3 hours ago, C.T. Phipps said:

The thing is that Tyrion spells out that without Daenerys' support or dragons, Griff has shit. Also, there's a very good argument that if he can't marry Daenerys then he won't be able to secure the Crown so marrying Arianne is not the option that a lot of people think it is either.

Shit? Time's passed since Tyrion and YG had that chat. He has Storm's End, he has the name Aegon VI and he has the Golden Company. He's not a woman and he's no reason to believe he's infertile. Danny may be in a better position to take Westeros due to her dragons, but YG may be in a better position to hold and rule it. The amount of work he gets done before she gets back to Westeros could have a critical impact on her own reception. It's one thing for her to bring fire and blood to depose an usurper, but if Aegon's legit (and if he gets the Iron Throne that will be legit enough regardless of any truths out there about pisswater princes) how does she portray herself and her cause as anything but wholly self interested?

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13 hours ago, Arthur Peres said:

The Stormlords are so unloyal that they make Walder Frey seems trust worthy... they already traded Renly for Stannis and Stannis for the Lannisters, they will probably join Young Griff. Aegon already is on their land, he will take the biggest castle there and show himself more worthy than the baby boy Tommen and his crazy mom... big bad Tywin is dead, the imp fleed, and Jaime is missing, there is nothing holding the Lannisters anymore. Turncloaks gonna turn cloak.

To be fair after Renly died they were left with only Stannis or Joffrey. They couldn't really remain loyal to Renly as he was dead and no one except Ser Courtnay suspected that Stannis was responsible. Tywin isn't known for his mercy but neither is Stannis. Personally I would have just left at that point and returned to my lands, as I find them both awful options. I would say they are more self-serving than unloyal, as they weren't actively plotting against the king they were pledged to. They didn't turn their cloaks while Renly was still alive. As Renly didn't name an heir there were no clear indications on who to support next.

As for Aegon, I think he will garner support quite quickly due to the fact that all the other options are pretty bad and he looks legitimate, at least on the surface. I suspect he will prove to be a decently good ruler, perhaps not the absolute best but leagues ahead of all the other kings, quite popular with the common folk. The wounds of the realm will begin to heal and things will finally start getting better...and then the dragons will show up. I think Aegon's legitimacy will be purposefully left ambiguous but he will be a good king anyway in order to make the reader question whether bloodline really matters (if they haven't already).

When Daenerys arrives she will be facing off against a popular, seemingly good-hearted king who is finally bringing peace to the war torn-realm. She will be forced to question her true motivations for wanting the throne, whether it is really for the good of the people she wants to protect or because she feels she is entitled to the throne or feels she has earned it because of the dragons and everything else she went through. I suspect the eventual outcome will be tragic and the poor smallfolk will suffer the most.

I am slightly concerned about Jon Connington, however. There is nothing definite but I have the vague suspicion that he may commit some sort of atrocity in the future in Aegon's name. After all the he seems regretful that he did not burn a town full of people to the ground to get at one rebel. I think his need to avenge Rhaegar/get revenge against Robert will lead to him performing some heinous act and Aegon may well dismiss him because of this. He is quite negatively affected by the sound of bells ringing, has bad dreams about them etc. so it's possible the bells of King's Landing could trigger some sort of rampage or something though that might be unlikely. Also he could spread the grey plague to tons of people.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

To be fair after Renly died they were left with only Stannis or Joffrey. They couldn't really remain loyal to Renly as he was dead and no one except Ser Courtnay suspected that Stannis was responsible. Tywin isn't known for his mercy but neither is Stannis. Personally I would have just left at that point and returned to my lands, as I find them both awful options. I would say they are more self-serving than unloyal, as they weren't actively plotting against the king they were pledged to. They didn't turn their cloaks while Renly was still alive. As Renly didn't name an heir there were no clear indications on who to support next.

As for Aegon, I think he will garner support quite quickly due to the fact that all the other options are pretty bad and he looks legitimate, at least on the surface. I suspect he will prove to be a decently good ruler, perhaps not the absolute best but leagues ahead of all the other kings, quite popular with the common folk. The wounds of the realm will begin to heal and things will finally start getting better...and then the dragons will show up. I think Aegon's legitimacy will be purposefully left ambiguous but he will be a good king anyway in order to make the reader question whether bloodline really matters (if they haven't already).

They are very self serving but they are also unloyal. 

They marched with Renly with the intention to battle Stannis, only for Renly to die and then they go to Stannis, then they march with Stannis with the intention of killing Joffrey, when they lose they once again change sides and start to support Joffrey, only for when another usurper show up and they change sides again? Even Balon Greyjoy is a better vassal if this is the case... they have no honor.

Is almost funny that Walder gets mocked for being late, when those lords flip flop over and over again.

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YG would gain some adepts by force (specially in the Stormlands) and very few by choice (Dorne and some petty lords who had a grudge against the Lannisters and see him as tool to get rid of them, maybe the Tyrells). But I don't think the Realm would flock to him: A great number of lords fought against his suppossed grandfather (Aerys II) and dethrone him. The Riverlands, Westerlands, Stormlands, and the Vale would have to accept they were in the wrong joining Robert's Rebellion before Aegon VI could accept them. Granted, he could issue pardons to get support, but what is he bringing to the table? He is just one more army (albeit a good and fresh one) in the continent. A imagine a lot not be happy to see Rhaegar' son comeback, and hold to see if he reach the throne. As @Arthur Peres said, the North would concentrate on their own problems and would not give two shits about any dragon boy.

Now, how the people would react? YG can have the greatest marketing campaign the Seven Kingdoms had seen, but he's still bringing more war, he's pushing against the capital with a host of mercenaries that may or not may be welcomed (the Golden Company are Westerosi, but defeated Westerosi), and I don't think the zealots of the Faith Militant (which continues to grow) would like to return to be subjugated to dragons, once again. I think YG would find out people weren't clamoring for his return, that the lords are resisting him, that his suppossed allies are reluctant to fight and the common folk either don't care about him or see him as an abomination.

In the end, I think YG would only have the support from the dornish, and when they found out he's not really Ellia's child, they would withdraw it (unless Arienne can wed him).

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27 minutes ago, Arthur Peres said:

They are very self serving but they are also unloyal. 

They marched with Renly with the intention to battle Stannis, only for Renly to die and then they go to Stannis, then they march with Stannis with the intention of killing Joffrey, when they lose they once again change sides and start to support Joffrey, only for when another usurper show up and they change sides again? Even Balon Greyjoy is a better vassal if this is the case... they have no honor.

Is almost funny that Walder gets mocked for being late, when those lords flip flop over and over again.

I understand what you are saying I just wouldn't classify them as turncloaks because they didn't really betray any of the kings they served, in my opinion. They followed Renly until he died, after he died they chose Stannis because he could be seen as Renly's heir. Then when Stannis was defeated some of them bent the knee to Joffrey to save their own lives. They change allegiance quite a lot, I just don't think they are turncloaks in the vein of the Freys. They didn't betray Renly while he lived, some of them only bent the knee to Joffrey when it was clear Stannis was beaten in order to keep their heads. They didn't plot against or abandon any of the kings they served while in their service as the Freys did. In Joffrey's and probably Aegon's case they are forced to follow them, so in this case you could argue that they are disloyal as they are putting their own lives (and possibly the lives of their kin) before their oath to Stannis. So they could be seen as disloyal, but I wouldn't compare them to the Freys because they never entertained a betrayal nearly as bad or on the scale of the Red Wedding. If they knew Stannis was responsible for Renly's death then I would fully agree, but since they didn't I don't think it's fair to brand them traitors based on this.

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Dorne will throw its lot in with Aegon. There's a theory that Edric Storm is now with the Golden Company (he was sent to Lys and the GC's spymaster Lysono Maar is from Lys. Assuming that's true, Aegon could make Edric the Lord of Storms End to secure the loyalty of the Stormlands. Its also been speculated that Tarly and Rowan will go over to Aegon's side.

The North is too busy with the Boltons and Stannis. Oldtown is going to be destroyed by Euron. The Riverlands are still a mess with the Freys and Lady Stoneheart. With the Vale it depends on when Sansa's identity is revealed and whether or not Littlefinger can convince Harry and the other lords to support her claim to the North.

King's Landing is in chaos with the assassination of Kevan and Pycelle, the trials of Cersei and Margarey, Nymeria and Tyene arriving, Varys still in the walls, etc. The people might see Aegon as being able to end the disorder, especially if the Faith supports him. As the supposed son of Rhaegar and Elia there's no allegations of bastardy or incest that could be applied to him as they have been to Tommen.

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9 minutes ago, WolfgangII said:

he's pushing against the capital with a host of mercenaries that may or not may be welcomed (the Golden Company are Westerosi, but defeated Westerosi)

I think this is quite an important point. The Golden Company are seen as Blackfyre supporters so I imagine at least a few people would be suspicious of Aegon because of this. Also invading with a bunch of exiles and foreigners is unlikely to go down well with the rest of the Lords. The Golden Company's support is a double-edged sword in this case.

12 minutes ago, WolfgangII said:

I don't think the zealots of the Faith Militant (which continues to grow) would like to return to be subjugated to dragons, once again

This could happen but I'm not sure if the Faith would be as antagonistic because Aegon himself is not the product of incest. I think they could be satisfied if he agreed to ban incest and revoke the Doctrine of Exceptionalism or something like that. The High Sparrow does not seem to like the old Targaryen laws surrounding the Faith. However it could be the case that the Faith are opposed to there being just one king and want a return to separate kingdoms as the monarchy as it stands limits quite a lot of their power. The Seven Kingdoms as seven kingdoms may also be desirable from a religious standpoint because the number seven is so important to them.

It's certainly true that people may be too war-weary to want to fight for yet another claimant. I was thinking he could gain a lot of support to make the conflict between Daenerys and himself more dramatic and to cause more conflicted feelings within Daenerys herself over the supposed legitimacy and righteousness of her desire to take the throne.

Another issue I think is the food supply. Everyone seems to want to invade even though winter is here and the harvest for most of the continent is already trashed or severely lacking. Aegon may be alright for now but I imagine Daenerys' Dothraki won't fare so well. There will likely be very little fodder for them. I think a lot of people, smallfolk and soldiers alike, will starve come winter. Snow will also restrict mobility.

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how about this: 

1. Jon Con does something horrendous in Aegon's name

2. Aegon reluctantly executes Jon Con , the only family he knew, to be a good king

3. but gets Gray scale and dies never living up to the Great King he wants to be 

4. on top of that , he infects the city with Greyscale so multiple people sit on IT after him in a "moon of madness" sorta period

 

?

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33 minutes ago, EggBlue said:

how about this: 

1. Jon Con does something horrendous in Aegon's name

2. Aegon reluctantly executes Jon Con , the only family he knew, to be a good king

3. but gets Gray scale and dies never living up to the Great King he wants to be 

4. on top of that , he infects the city with Greyscale so multiple people sit on IT after him in a "moon of madness" sorta period

It sounds tragic enough to be plausible. I agree that Jon Con will most likely end up doing something horrible. I think his desire for vengeance, combined with his guilt over not just torching Stoney Sept to kill Robert, combined with the negative effect the sound of bells seems to have on him will result in him possibly snapping and commiting an atrocity so that Aegon will have no choice but to get rid of him.

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