kissdbyfire Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Ah the 2nd part... I will watch it once it's streaming somewhere. I know, visuals and all but I'm not particularly excited for it, or at least not enough to drag myself to a cinema. I didn't really love the 1st part tbh. It was ok, I suppose, but nothing to write home about. I happen to like Lynch's Dune a lot, despite its issues. I love the steampunk visual, perhaps b/c it's very close to my head canon. Villeneuve's vision for the story doesn't really do it for me. I wasn't super excited for the 1st installment when it came out, but then there's one scene that really sucked all enjoyment and greater appreciation I might have had. Basically b/c to me it's like, do these people understand this scene at all? Here's Lynch's version of it: And here's Villeneuve's: SpaceChampion 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted February 25 Author Share Posted February 25 22 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: I wasn't super excited for the 1st installment when it came out, but then there's one scene that really sucked all enjoyment and greater appreciation I might have had. Basically b/c to me it's like, do these people understand this scene at all? Here's Lynch's version of it: And here's Villeneuve's: hmm, it's true that the way Lynch's Jessica uses the Voice is more in line with the book, but I found Villeneuve's Jessica (and thanks to Ferguson's performance) to be quite chilling and strong. Also, no need for inner-monologues to explain everything. The scene in 2021 Dune is also a good payoff to the scene earlier in the movie where she instructs Paul on the Voice. Jace, Extat and Ser Scot A Ellison 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 (edited) 9 hours ago, Corvinus85 said: hmm, it's true that the way Lynch's Jessica uses the Voice is more in line with the book, but I found Villeneuve's Jessica (and thanks to Ferguson's performance) to be quite chilling and strong. Also, no need for inner-monologues to explain everything. The scene in 2021 Dune is also a good payoff to the scene earlier in the movie where she instructs Paul on the Voice. I agree on the internal monologue being unnecessary. But i really don't like New Jessica. I like the actor a lot, but really dislike their Jessica. Edited February 26 by kissdbyfire Stupid dumb autocorrect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadlines? What Deadlines? Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 4 hours ago, kissdbyfire said: I agree on the Internet monologue being unnecessary. But i really don't like New Jessica. I like the actor a lot, but really dislike their Jessica. Lynch always was a trendsetter. Yeah, I've weighed in on this before. My one criticism of Dune Part 1 was a lack of exposition. And they didn't need to add much. We get a lot through Paul's educational hologram. I thought that was pretty slick. Lynch's Dune had waaay too much. Wasted too much precious screen time on trivial bits of world building and showing off shiny props. They were great but still. And the voiceovers. My god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tears of Lys Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 Has anyone commented on how bitchin' the ornithopters are?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadlines? What Deadlines? Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 35 minutes ago, Tears of Lys said: Has anyone commented on how bitchin' the ornithopters are?? I vaguely remember a lengthy discussion about how realistic they were. Like whether or not a design like that could be made to work. Yeah, they're pretty awesome. I kind of wish I never saw the BTS photos. It would have been nice going in cold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 Hope this film does well so we get a part 3 to complete Villeneaus trilogy plan ! Seeing it in IMAX myself first day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 4 hours ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said: Lynch always was a trendsetter. Yeah, I've weighed in on this before. My one criticism of Dune Part 1 was a lack of exposition. And they didn't need to add much. I don't think I agree here, my recent rewatch, my main conclusion was 'fucking hell, so much exposition and world building!' The movie has to pretty much explain what is going on, what the deal is with spice, the different factions, the back story, and I guess it does a good job at it. Part one really feels like its heavy on setup though, and I didn't notice it the first time as I was just enjoying seeing things on screen. There do seem to be a lot of scenes where things are just explained. Not sure there is a way round that, but I don't feel it's light on exposition. I'm also in the minority that I kind of like the voiceovers in the Lynch version. It gives the movie a more haunting quality, which just sticks in your head. Dune 2021 by comparison is pretty cold emotionally and there is a big distance from characters in each scene, you don't tend to get enough sense of their thoughts. Lynch's version at least gave us that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 16 hours ago, kissdbyfire said: Ah the 2nd part... I will watch it once it's streaming somewhere. I know, visuals and all but I'm not particularly excited for it, or at least not enough to drag myself to a cinema. I didn't really love the 1st part tbh. It was ok, I suppose, but nothing to write home about. I happen to like Lynch's Dune a lot, despite its issues. I love the steampunk visual, perhaps b/c it's very close to my head canon. Villeneuve's vision for the story doesn't really do it for me. I wasn't super excited for the 1st installment when it came out, but then there's one scene that really sucked all enjoyment and greater appreciation I might have had. Basically b/c to me it's like, do these people understand this scene at all? Here's Lynch's version of it: And here's Villeneuve's: I think the 2021 version of the scene works well. The Lynch version is shorter and has a bit more economy of storytelling, but I didn't mind the extra time with Paul's struggle. And doing it without voiceover is much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 14 minutes ago, Maithanet said: I think the 2021 version of the scene works well. The Lynch version is shorter and has a bit more economy of storytelling, but I didn't mind the extra time with Paul's struggle. And doing it without voiceover is much better. As I’ve said above, I agree re the voiceover. But I don't think the new version works well, or to put it differently, it doesn’t work for me at all. Jessica’s “kill him!” completely misses the point of how the Voice works when compared to Annis’s Jessica’s delicate and enticing and even sexy “there’s no need to fight over me”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 2 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: As I’ve said above, I agree re the voiceover. But I don't think the new version works well, or to put it differently, it doesn’t work for me at all. Jessica’s “kill him!” completely misses the point of how the Voice works when compared to Annis’s Jessica’s delicate and enticing and even sexy “there’s no need to fight over me”. I actually had the opposite reaction to that same line, it felt strange to say "there's no need to fight over me" and for him to immediately kill his partner. One can presume there's a subverbal element that pushes him to do just that, but it seems a little odd. Particularly when Paul just used the Voice to get him to do exactly what he asked. I noticed (and appreciated) that in both versions they don't say "now kill yourself" because the Voice has limits on the level of persuasion it can achieve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IFR Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 17 hours ago, kissdbyfire said: Ah the 2nd part... I will watch it once it's streaming somewhere. I know, visuals and all but I'm not particularly excited for it, or at least not enough to drag myself to a cinema. I didn't really love the 1st part tbh. It was ok, I suppose, but nothing to write home about. I happen to like Lynch's Dune a lot, despite its issues. I love the steampunk visual, perhaps b/c it's very close to my head canon. Villeneuve's vision for the story doesn't really do it for me. I wasn't super excited for the 1st installment when it came out, but then there's one scene that really sucked all enjoyment and greater appreciation I might have had. Basically b/c to me it's like, do these people understand this scene at all? Here's Lynch's version of it: And here's Villeneuve's: I have the opposite reaction to the entire scene. The second video is tense and eerie, Jessica and Paul behave competently and in concert (I love the hand signaling), and it is an all around excellent action sequence. The first video has not aged well. The costumes and design are extremely campy, the acting of the Harkonnen minions is over the top and silly, and as Maithanet pointed out, Jessica's command doesn't make sense. It's directly from the book (with the omission of Jessica's sensual writhing). But while in the book it's clear what is going on, as presented in the movie it looks like the minion is defying the directives of the Voice and it's just confusing. David Lynch apparently had read Dune and didn't particularly like it, and it seems pretty clear to me from this scene. This is less a Dune movie and more of a David Lynch mad science experiment that got out of control. Even David Lynch doesn't care for it. Villeneuve's version is the work of a fan and one of the greatest living filmmakers, and fortunately it shows. Jace, Extat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted February 26 Author Share Posted February 26 The line "no need to fight for me" doesn't work in either movie because there was no indication of the Harkonnens wanting to all gang up on Jessica. In Lynch's Dune the pilot practically ignores what the other is doing, and in Villeneuve, the pilot is busy and not attentive, too, while the deaf one is immune to the Voice. Jessica needed to act quickly and force her will on the big Harkonnen to kill the deaf one. IFR 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 15 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said: The line "no need to fight for me" doesn't work in either movie because there was no indication of the Harkonnens wanting to all gang up on Jessica. ? I'm confused, in the 2021 Dune, Jessica doesn't say "no need to fight for me" or anything like that. She says "kill him", "stop!" and "give me the knife". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IFR Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 2 minutes ago, Maithanet said: ? I'm confused, in the 2021 Dune, Jessica doesn't say "no need to fight for me" or anything like that. She says "kill him", "stop!" and "give me the knife". I think Corvinus means that using the line from the book wouldn't make sense in this scene of Villeneuve's movie and this justifies the change in lines. It doesn't make sense in Lynch's version of the movie either. It's an example of good writing and bad writing, respectively. Maithanet and Corvinus85 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 43 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said: The line "no need to fight for me" doesn't work in either movie because there was no indication of the Harkonnens wanting to all gang up on Jessica The way I see it, that’s precisely the point. When Jessica says it she is planting the whole thing in the Harkonnen’s mind; her use of Voice makes him believe that not only he wants her but that the other guy also does and that they can’t both have her. She uses Voice to convince him he wants her and must fight over her. Anyhoo, that’s just the way I see it and I know and knew beforehand that probably no one would see it the same way. Another great thing about art is how it allows for many different takes and interpretations. Corvinus85, IFR and Jace, Extat 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 4 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: Anyhoo, that’s just the way I see it and I know and knew beforehand that probably no one would see it the same way. Another great thing about art is how it allows for many different takes and interpretations. Yeah. One of the tricky things about this scene is it is a challenge to show the limitations of the Voice in a "show, don't tell" kinda way. In a book it is much easier. I assume that if you use the Voice to say "stab yourself in the neck" that the person would probably be able to resist. But without having a clunky explanation scene earlier on where they explicitly talk about the power and limitations of the Voice, you have to just show the characters using the power and assume that they (or at least Jessica) knows how to maximize it's usefulness. IMO the 2021 scene works as it shows how incredibly powerful the Voice is, and how dangerous it would be to have people like that around galactic leaders. Jace, Extat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted February 26 Author Share Posted February 26 In terms of the aesthetic of the first movie the only thing that bothered me was the battle armor of various groups, like the Atreides and the future Fremen. It makes sense in a universe where swords and knives are heavily used because of advanced force fields to also wear some good old metal armor, but there was really little creativity involved in their design. They look a lot like any other futuristic SF armor we've seen countless times. And if the respective martial arts involve fighting a shielded opponent in such a way that you need to slowly get passed the shield, the regular armor should be designed to prevent slicing and stabbing without restricting mobility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 13 hours ago, Tears of Lys said: Has anyone commented on how bitchin' the ornithopters are?? Flying them in Microsoft Flight Simulator is a lot of fun. Way back in 1991 Cryo released the first Dune video game. The OG version had you being able to fly ornithopters manually over the desert, but the desert was just a flat yellow background and hitting the controls just changed your orientation on the map, it didn't change the visuals. The CD-ROM version had much better graphics for the desert but it was the same issue. This is a completely different type of flying: Lord of Oop North 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadlines? What Deadlines? Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 How did I miss this? https://ca.news.yahoo.com/internet-freaking-over-nsfw-dune-152600273.html Myrddin and Corvinus85 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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