Football: Lamping on towards the finish line.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

9 hours ago, baxus said:

This whole "I'll play for X at U21 and then switch to Y at senior level" is just stupid to me, but I guess England can't really complain after doing the same with Rice.

Mostly it's career/marketing decission. You are somewhat more marketable if you are an International, and thus your agent(s) can demand (and get) higher paid contracts in negotiations with clubs (and you get a bigger stage to show yourself). Usually it's players from a big footballing nation that switch federation, because while they are good, they (mostly correctly) assume they won't make it into that specific national team on the senior level, and thus switch to a smaller one. Or they rather take the short cut onto the international stage. I am not that fond of that argument, because those second tier players from Europe are taking away spots from other African players (as an example) and the chance to represent their country at the World Cup. 

And the smaller federations are actively poaching, as access to a well trained youngster who could feature in their team for years to come is always nice. Some years ago Süle shared a funny story. He got a call by the Turkish FA, who wanted him to switch federations. I mean there an ü in his name, that surely means Turkish ancestry (you may laugh, but that was apparently very much the reasoning the guy form the Turkish FA provided). Süle was by his own account amused by that and explained to the caller, that his family('s) name is of Hungarian origin. That didn't end this conversation, as that was apparently no problem, Süle then politely thanked him for their interest, but said he was not interested.

For the German  FA getting youngsters poached by Turkey is routine and somewhat annoying, as they'd like to keep those youngsters and hope that one of them eventually becomes good enough to play for Germany at the senior level. 

Özil was also heavily courted by the Turkish FA, he turned them down. His reasoning was not his big love for Germany, he felt he was talented enough to have a go at the Ballon d'Or in the future and felt representing Germany was more beneficial for him on that front, and would also make him more marketable (sponsorship deals with Adidas or Nike). 

Khedira was also courted by the Tunisian FA, he turned them down, because he felt a stronger commitment to his home country, than to that of his father. (And he also thought of himself being good enough to make it into the German team, even if it takes a bit longer).

Matip was called by the Cameroonian FA shortly after breaking into Schalke's first team (I think he got invited for the 2010 Africa cup in late 2009, and he only signed his first pro/senior contract at the beginning of 2010). He never represented Germany or Cameroon at junior levels iirc. He opted out of the Africa cup to focus on his fledging Bundesliga career, but made his debut for Cameroon against Italy in March. He made into their WC squad that year. Needless to say, that his chances for making the German WC team in 2010 would've been lower. And there was quite a bit of competition for the CB spots in that Generation. 

There's also the case of Borna Sosa. He wanted to switch to the German FA, but covid sorta stopped that iirc. I think it was the u21 being postponed, and him representing Croatia meant he was federation tied. 

 

[Consigliere]

City have been pretty incredible so far. Real Madrid have been made to look like a lower division side. That first half is among the most one-sided CL semifinals I've ever seen. I don't think Real Madrid will make a heroic comeback this time. It's City's year, unfortunately.

 

[A Horse Named Stranger]

Inter will win it. 

[ljkeane]

8 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

 And the smaller federations are actively poaching, as access to a well trained youngster who could feature in their team for years to come is always nice.

Yeah, the way Germany poached Musiala was a disgrace.

In all seriousness I don't see any issue with players switching around with age grade teams. It's development football. Players playing to help their careers or because they know people in a certain set up or they get an opportunity for one team and not another etc seems fine to me. Rice switching after he'd already played senior internationals for Ireland seems a little more questionable to me.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

32 minutes ago, ljkeane said:

Yeah, the way Germany poached Musiala was a disgrace.

In all seriousness I don't see any issue with players switching around with age grade teams. It's development football. Players playing to help their careers or because they know people in a certain set up or they get an opportunity for one team and not another etc seems fine to me. Rice switching after he'd already played senior internationals for Ireland seems a little more questionable to me.

If they feel more comfortable representing nation a than nation b, fine so be it. 

I have more of an issue, with players switching federation in order to represent a country with which they have no real connection. So players, that have never set foot into their parents country picking up that passport in the run up to a World Cup. There I kinda feel sorry for the players that played in the qualification and feel really passionately about representing their country only to be ousted by some random guy, who had the benefit of being born in a richer country with a better infrastructure and better training opportunities as a kid. Inaki Williams playing for Ghana is certainly nice for Ghana, and good for him that he got to play a world cup... 

How much Germany poached (they certainly did) Musiala is kinda up for debate. He was born in Germany to a German mother and a Nigerian father. That's where he also started to play (Fulda tbp). He was considered a stand out talent even then. The Erasmus program offered his mum the opportunity to spent a semester in Southamptom. They returned to Germany, she completed her master thesis and found a job in London in close proximity to the Chelsea FC academy. That's how he ended up in England's academy system. Personal reasons and Brexit made him want to leave Britain in 2019. Thus his family packed up and moved back to Germany. Side note, I am sure quite a few people working in England will be amazed how easy it apparently is to acquire an English passport. 

If I was to read between the lines of Personal Reasons and Brexit I can get a rough idea, why he didn't feel like playing for England anymore.

Edited May 17, 2023 by A Horse Named Stranger

[BigFatCoward]

If they blow it from here it would be hilarious. 

[Daemon the Leaner]

it really is City's year

also I think there is a pattern that if you draw the first leg at home despite being the better team, you are always going to be knocked out

[Corvinus85]

3 hours ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Inter will win it. 

They have it in them to win it, but they are still the underdog.

I hate that it was City that did, but I do enjoy seeing Real get trounced. 

[Teng Ai Hui]

It has to be Inter Milan.  The Yaya Toure curse is not yet broken.

Edited May 18, 2023 by Teng Ai Hui

[baxus]

 

11 hours ago, ljkeane said:

Yeah, the way Germany poached Musiala was a disgrace.

In all seriousness I don't see any issue with players switching around with age grade teams. It's development football. Players playing to help their careers or because they know people in a certain set up or they get an opportunity for one team and not another etc seems fine to me. Rice switching after he'd already played senior internationals for Ireland seems a little more questionable to me.

I get the pros of player switching their national team for the player's career, it's just that I don't see how anyone can think about playing for their country that way. I mean, you grow up dreaming of playing for your country, scoring a winning goal in WC finals and all that, and then you just replace the country in your dreams and go with that? I mean, every player knows what country he dreamed of playing for as a kid and that is a country they should be playing for.

I'll willingly admit to being naive on this one, but that is not something that should be traded like that.

11 hours ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

I have more of an issue, with players switching federation in order to represent a country with which they have no real connection. So players, that have never set foot into their parents country picking up that passport in the run up to a World Cup.

If you think that players have no real connection to their parents' countries, you haven't met Balkan, Turkish etc. parents

Joking aside, a lot of immigrants really stick to their roots in their new country, and a lot of that rubs off on their kids so dismissing them as "having no real connection" to those countries is just wrong.

[BigFatCoward]

if we don't win tonight i'm going to cry. 

[polishgenius]

45 minutes ago, baxus said:

If you think that players have no real connection to their parents' countries, you haven't met Balkan, Turkish etc. parents

Joking aside, a lot of immigrants really stick to their roots in their new country, and a lot of that rubs off on their kids so dismissing them as "having no real connection" to those countries is just wrong.

 

Yeah I was lucky enough that my parents were able to have us visit Poland most summers, but even if I hadn't, I'd still feel deeply Polish (British as well, don't get me wrong, but Polish first). People used to tell me I can't be because I was born in England. Fuck those people. 

[baxus]

Gotta love the people who feel they're the authority on who is what and why.

[lacuna]

Maybe they should play for the country their money is hidden in. Fuckin Panama would win every tournament.

[BigFatCoward]

I have to say I find the idea of Luton v Coventry hugely appealing for the playoff final.  Obviously whoever wins will go straight back down but both clubs have done amazing to get even this far when considering where they were a few years ago.  Also helps that the 2 losing teams were Sunderland and Boro.

 

[polishgenius]

As a Hertfordshire boy, fuck Luton. Fuck them all the way.

[ljkeane]

Luton are very much not a Premier League club but, you know, seeing Premier League teams having to play at Kenilworth Road would be funny. 

[BigFatCoward]

48 minutes ago, ljkeane said:

Luton are very much not a Premier League club but, you know, seeing Premier League teams having to play at Kenilworth Road would be funny. 

should get the old plastic carpet out of storage for a huge home advantage. 

[BigFatCoward]

Newcastle boss Eddie Howe, Brighton’s Roberto de Zerbi, Arsenal’s Mikel Arteta, Man City’s Pep Guardiola, Fulham’s Marco Silva and Aston Villa’s Unai Emery have been nominated for Premier League Manager of the Year.

Quite a lot of good candidates there with caveats right now.  If Arteta had won league, he should have won it, if Pep wins the treble he should win it, if Newcastle or Brighton secure CL places their managers should be in with a shout.  Silva and Emery both ran out of steam at the end of the year when it came to the crunch.  

[ljkeane]

16 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

Newcastle boss Eddie Howe, Brighton’s Roberto de Zerbi, Arsenal’s Mikel Arteta, Man City’s Pep Guardiola, Fulham’s Marco Silva and Aston Villa’s Unai Emery have been nominated for Premier League Manager of the Year.

Quite a lot of good candidates there with caveats right now.  If Arteta had won league, he should have won it, if Pep wins the treble he should win it, if Newcastle or Brighton secure CL places their managers should be in with a shout.  Silva and Emery both ran out of steam at the end of the year when it came to the crunch.  

It's Arteta for me. There have been a lot of 'Arsenal didn't bottle it, they had a really good season' articles over the last few days but they're kind of both true, they did bottle it a bit and they've also had a really good season. The thing for me though is Arsenal are going to end up about 10-15 points better than most people expected them to be this year. Winning the Champions League would be the big thing for City but in the league they're probably about par. De Zerbi's done really well but it's a combination of him and Potter for the season. Howe's done well but potentially making the Champions League is a bit of a combination of Newcastle improving and Liverpool and Chelsea having big drop offs.