UK Politics: Picking Your Career

[Heartofice]

5 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

Spoken like someone who didn't have to live with parents who fucking hated each other. 

Actually yeah I did. Horrendous divorce and marriage that dragged on for years.

It's made all the more passionate that couples should work harder to stay together and solve their problems. I'm also a parent and I'm going to do everything in my power to make sure they never have to go through what I did. 

Edited May 16, 2023 by Heartofice

[Spockydog]

So, what, this is another chapter in the right wing 'make 'em suffer just like we did' handbook? 

Personally, my life improved beyond recognition when my parents finally called it a day and went their separate ways. 

Edited May 16, 2023 by Spockydog

[BigFatCoward]

1 minute ago, Spockydog said:

 

Personally, my life improved beyond recognition when my parents finally called it a day and went their separate ways. 

You get 2 lots of Christmas presents apart from anything else. 

[Heartofice]

7 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

So, what, this is another chapter in the right wing 'make 'em suffer just like we did' handbook? 

Huh? This sort of crap really just baffles me, so much bad faith bullshit.

The guy is clearly speaking about the benefits of marriage and couples staying together to raise their kids rather than give up at the first sign of trouble, and if we look at the divorce rate that absolutely seems to be the case for a lot of people. As he said, marriage is not all about you, when you have kids you basically sacrifice much of your own happiness to provide for them. That is the deal, you don't get to fuck off cos things stopped being fun or you aren't 'feeling it anymore'.

And that doesn't mean we should just be ok with abusive partners or that troubled marriages should just do nothing, clearly it's not. The whole point is to try and make your marriage work as much as you can, and if you are both arseholes to each other the whole time then clearly you aren't doing that. 

Fucking hell, you'd think he's saying something controversial here.

[Spockydog]

No. What I am disagreeing with is this guy's assertion that it's better for families if parents put up with a lifetime of misery just for the sake of their children's happiness. I mean, what a load of shit. Who benefits from such a situation? Does he seriously believe those children are happy? Children, generally, are not blind or deaf. Nor stupid. 

Edited May 16, 2023 by Spockydog

[Heartofice]

1 minute ago, Spockydog said:

No. What I am disagreeing with is this guy's assertion that it's better for families if parents put up with a lifetime misery just for the sake of their children's happiness. I mean, what a load of shit. 

Right so parents shouldn't put their children's happiness first? Or are you responding to something he hasn't actually said, it's really hard to tell sometimes.

[Spockydog]

Ffs. As I said, are those children happy with their parents screaming at each other every other night. Maybe a bit of domestic violence thrown in. 

[Zorral]

54 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

Spoken like someone who didn't have to live with parents who fucking hated each other. 

Not to mention how often daddy beat up mommy.  And the kids too.

[Heartofice]

7 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

Ffs. As I said, are those children happy with their parents screaming at each other every other night. Maybe a bit of domestic violence thrown in. 

Ok right so you are not only responding to something he hasn’t said but also ignoring my above comment. Got it.

 

[Derfel Cadarn]

1 hour ago, Heartofice said:

Wow, people espousing the benefits of parents trying to make a marriage work for the sake of their kids. Pure evil. 

It’s a blend of misogyny and homophobia. What they really mean is, women should suck it up. Like in the bad old days when women couldnt get a credit card and sonhad few resources to leave abusive relationships.

Also note the emphasis on marriage between a man and woman. Same-sex couples being written out.

The whole con is basically a hard-right circle-jerk

Edited May 16, 2023 by Derfel Cadarn

[Heartofice]

7 minutes ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

It’s a blend of misogyny and homophobia. What they really mean is, women should suck it up. Like in the bad old days when women couldnt get a credit card and sonhad few resources to leave abusive relationships.

Also note the emphasis on marriage between a man and woman. Same-sex couples being written out.

The whole con is basically a hard-right circle-jerk

M’lud May I present to you evidence for why the left is absolutely fucked.

[Zorral]

And always there's no question that when things are rotten WOMEN (and Black people and other Others -- not yet! wait, for the sake of the cause/country) are expected to even lay down their lives without question for what Some (White/Rich/Politically Poweful) Men decree as a solution.

Notice, there's not a word in these proposals of providing any funding or even medical care or housing or other assistance  for these hypothetical children that don't exist ... mostly don't exist because women cannot afford to raise kids and parents can't afford housing or school fees -- or even food.  Evidently this is a solution that takes us back to the Dark Ages of wherever and whatever times, that homeless, pregnant women, are to be begging along the sides of the roads, dragging 8 kids behind them.

[Heartofice]

2 minutes ago, Zorral said:

And always there's no question that when things are rotten WOMEN (and Black people and other Others -- not yet! wait, for the sake of the cause/country) are expected to even lay down their lives without question for what Some (White/Rich/Politically Poweful) Men decree as a solution.

Notice, there's not a word in these proposals of providing any funding or even medical care or housing or other assistance  for these hypothetical children that don't exist ... mostly don't exist because women cannot afford to raise kids and parents can't afford housing or school fees -- or even food.  Evidently this is a solution that takes us back to the Dark Ages of wherever and whatever times, that homeless, pregnant women, are to be begging along the sides of the roads, dragging 8 kids behind them.

May i submit evidence #2.

[Derfel Cadarn]

8 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

M’lud May I present to you evidence for why the left is absolutely fucked.

*looks around* Can’t see any. Is it hiding behind the mountain of evidence that the right are evil and incompetent?

You said: ”I'm also a parent and I'm going to do everything in my power to make sure they never have to go through what I did. ”.

So if your wife announces she’s done and wants a divorce, you woukd try to force her to stay in a marriage she was done with? Interesting…

And speaking of the reich … sorry, right, apparently genocide and war was just the nazis ‘mucking up’ nationalism. The Nat-C’s promise to do it properly

 

[Heartofice]

Man says couples should work on their marriage try and stay together:

‘Waaah you are advocating for domestic abuse!!!’

’ Waaah you said man and woman!! You are excluding LGBT+ people!!’

’Waaah didn’t you know this affects ‘insert minority’ how dare you not mention that!!

All because someone said marriage is good. That’s why you lot are fucked.

29 minutes ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

You said: ”I'm also a parent and I'm going to do everything in my power to make sure they never have to go through what I did. ”.

So if your wife announces she’s done and wants a divorce, you woukd try to force her to stay in a marriage she was done with? Interesting…

Again, fucking hell. What is this shit? I’d be trying to work on my marriage but I’m not forcing anyone to stay. Nobody is suggesting we outlaw divorce!, just try harder. Holy shit I’m losing my mind here with you lot.

Oh and look,  someone makes joke about the war.. ‘you are minimising the experience of Jews!’ Holy crap. Thanks for more evidence 

[James Arryn]

2 hours ago, Spockydog said:

Spoken like someone who didn't have to live with parents who fucking hated each other. 

My parents split when I was 2 and I am astonished they made it that long. 

[Rippounet]

Quote

Lol, ok go on, tell me why.

 

Let's start with the fact France has (basically) free tuition and the highest fertility rate of Europe, so the entire premise of your post was wrong to begin with.

[Derfel Cadarn]

5 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Man says couples should work on their marriage try and stay together:

‘Waaah you are advocating for domestic abuse!!!’

’ Waaah you said man and woman!! You are excluding LGBT+ people!!’

’Waaah didn’t you know this affects ‘insert minority’ how dare you not mention that!!

All because someone said marriage is good. That’s why you lot are fucked.

Again, fucking hell. What is this shit? I’d be trying to work on my marriage but I’m not forcing anyone to stay. Nobody is suggesting we outlaw divorce!, just try harder. Holy shit I’m losing my mind here with you lot.

Oh and look,  someone makes joke about the war.. ‘you are minimising the experience of Jews!’ Holy crap. Thanks for more evidence 

Wtf does ‘try harder’ mean? Who are you to say that someone hasn’t ‘tried hard enough’? The whole speech was one giant appeal to the far right. And hypocritical too, given their darling Johnson’s marital record. 
 

The right has utterly fucked this country. Even Farage has admitted brexit has failed

 

[James Arryn]

2 hours ago, Heartofice said:

Actually yeah I did. Horrendous divorce and marriage that dragged on for years.

It's made all the more passionate that couples should work harder to stay together and solve their problems. I'm also a parent and I'm going to do everything in my power to make sure they never have to go through what I did. 

What do you mean when you say their marriage ‘dragged on’?

 

3 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Man says couples should work on their marriage try and stay together:

‘Waaah you are advocating for domestic abuse!!!’

’ Waaah you said man and woman!! You are excluding LGBT+ people!!’

’Waaah didn’t you know this affects ‘insert minority’ how dare you not mention that!!

All because someone said marriage is good. That’s why you lot are fucked.

Again, fucking hell. What is this shit? I’d be trying to work on my marriage but I’m not forcing anyone to stay. Nobody is suggesting we outlaw divorce!, just try harder. Holy shit I’m losing my mind here with you lot.

Oh and look,  someone makes joke about the war.. ‘you are minimising the experience of Jews!’ Holy crap. Thanks for more evidence 

How exactly do you legislate couples ‘trying harder’? What role does government have in that, and FFS why would you want that? Or if this is just about platitudes and sloganism, knock yourself out, but what is it doing in a politics thread? And, lastly, on balance, who do you think knows more about the state of a marriage, the people in it, or the outsiders trying to make generalized statements about what others should or should not do with their lives? 
 

This indirectly reminds me of a joke I heard about American capitalists enthusiasm for ‘exporting freedom of economies’…yeah, provided it’s their freedom and other peoples’ economies.

[Kalbear]

7 hours ago, Heartofice said:

Hmm.. it's a question of bias and obvious myopia more than anything.

Somehow there is bias in someone who has been in HE for their career but not someone who personally had a bad outcome of HE. 

Interesting how that works!