Ukraine War: Poor put upon Russia… why will the world not just let it rape, kill, and steal toilets from Ukraine… in peace?

[Zorral]

42 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

If anyone can prove direct descendancy from Scythians, please raise your hand. I believe you have the best claim to ruling Ukraine. 

The huns, turkic, cossacks may be able to?  I mean, you know, origins the central asian steppes etc.

[Conflicting Thought]

4 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

As such… why then raise it here?

becacause the topic came out, varys said that the west is morally superior and to me that is just not true, that doesnt mean we shouldnt say russia is doing horrible things in their colonization attempt, just that, in my opinion is not necesary to big up the west as an example of virtue on anything relating to attrocities, tho i do agree with karaddin.

[Zorral]

13 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

A nice dense read if you know what I mean.

It is on the list, but for reasons, kind of far down.  Right now I'm still reading books regarding Central Asian history, the latest, (2023) The Scythian Empire: Central Eurasia and the Birth of the Classical Age From Persian to China by Christopher I. Buckworth.  By now, getting quite a nice collection going of books on Scythians.  Ha!

Also a book on the black/African historic roots to Spanish theater (as well as that of European and US theater) and to Flamenco, and another on the history of the Burgundians.

It is yet another atrocity added to charnel house we call history that the Russians have stopped so much of this invaluable archeological work.  I hate war so much, and particularly these contemporary war that are hastening the collapse of our climate, as well as destroying the treasure troves of knowledge of humanity's <sic?> past.  I first started thinking of that when Cheney and Co. bombed the oil well in Iraq for no really good reason in the Gulf War.

~~~~~~

So Turkey and Hungary are blocking Sweden's entry to NATO . . . .

Turkey's bargaining chip here is let Turkey into the EU first . . . .

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/10/nato-sweden-pm-to-meet-with-turkeys-erdogan-in-last-ditch-bid-to-seal-membership

Edited July 10, 2023 by Zorral

[butterweedstrover]

2 hours ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Since people are still engaging with this nonsense, I want to have another pick

How is aiding Ukraine forging another path destroying Russia? Not sure how to put it any simpler Ukraine is not (a part of) Russia.

Ukrainians had that choice, when the USSR collapsed and they decided to be independent.

I am sorta confused, aren't you describing Putin's/Russia's idea for the future of Ukraine. Basically a Belarus 2.0 functions as a Russian proxy?

 

Which pretty much sums up Russian interests in Ukraine.

The question is, WHY does the west want to ‘shepherd’ Ukraine, a country with little value to them or the EU? Why are they so obsessed with Ukraine? 
 

Because of Russia, so Russia can be destroyed.

[butterweedstrover]

1 hour ago, Zorral said:

This is why one might suspect, that the poster -- if not a chatbot -- is Iranian, not Russian at all. The sense of Christianity and its history, whether Roman or Greek, appears that of someone who doesn't known any more of this than the average magarat does of the history and divisions of Islam, and what the Quran says.

Tell me where the Vatican is located. Did Jesus ever even step foot in this area once in his life? 
 

And tell me again about the church, are they not expansionists, did they not slaughter in the name of conversion. 
 

Tell me of the gold, the statues, the bread and circus. Is this Jesus or Rome?

Who are they: Jesus or the people who had Jesus crucified?

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

1 minute ago, butterweedstrover said:

The question is, WHY does the west want to ‘shepherd’ Ukraine, a country with little value to them or the EU? Why are they so obsessed with Ukraine? 
 

Because of Russia, so Russia can be destroyed.

You’re just pissed Russia isn’t being allowed to rape, murder, and steal toilets in Ukraine… in peace.

What does DNA have to do with culture?  Since Icelanders are genetically, nearly identical, to Norwegians… does Norway have an intrinsic right to invade and incorporate Iceland as part of Norway?

Given I’m of German/Irish decent but raised in the US… am I Culturally… really German or Irish?

[butterweedstrover]

41 minutes ago, Zorral said:

It is on the list, but for reasons, kind of far down.  Right now I'm still reading books regarding Central Asian history, the latest, (2023) The Scythian Empire: Central Eurasia and the Birth of the Classical Age From Persian to China by Christopher I. Buckworth.  By now, getting quite a nice collection going of books on Scythians.  Ha!

Also a book on the black/African historic roots to Spanish theater (as well as that of European and US theater) and to Flamenco, and another on the history of the Burgundians.

It is yet another atrocity added to charnel house we call history that the Russians have stopped so much of this invaluable archeological work.  I hate war so much, and particularly these contemporary war that are hastening the collapse of our climate, as well as destroying the treasure troves of knowledge of humanity's <sic?> past.  I first started thinking of that when Cheney and Co. bombed the oil well in Iraq for no really good reason in the Gulf War.

~~~~~~

So Turkey and Hungary are blocking Sweden's entry to NATO . . . .

Turkey's bargaining chip here is let Turkey into the EU first . . . .

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/10/nato-sweden-pm-to-meet-with-turkeys-erdogan-in-last-ditch-bid-to-seal-membership

Let me guess, you’re against a ceasefire and want untrained conscripts thrown against Russia defense lines.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

2 minutes ago, butterweedstrover said:

Let me guess, you’re against a ceasefire and want untrained conscripts thrown against Russia defense lines.

What does DNA have to do with culture?

[butterweedstrover]

5 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

You’re just pissed Russia isn’t being allowed to rape, murder, and steal toilets in Ukraine… in peace.

What does DNA have to do with culture?  Since Icelanders are genetically, nearly identical, to Norwegians… does Norway have an intrinsic right to invade and incorporate Iceland as part of Norway?

Given I’m of German/Irish decent but raised in the US… am I Culturally… really German or Irish?

Ukraine is Russia, they are the Rus people. 
 

Nordic countries share a culture and people, they don’t have revisionist Nazis in their population who think Icelanders are ethnically superior to Norwegians, because that would be a joke. 
 

However, in the west Banderites are nurtured and given a platform to spew historical revisionism, that Russians are mongols and Ukrainian are the true heirs to Kievan Rus. 
 

This is what THEY say, and you promoted this ideology in schools all across Ukraine.

Edited July 10, 2023 by butterweedstrover

[Kalbear]

2 minutes ago, butterweedstrover said:

The question is, WHY does the west want to ‘shepherd’ Ukraine, a country with little value to them or the EU? Why are they so obsessed with Ukraine? 

I mean, the stated goal is pretty simple here: the West is interested in Ukraine because Ukraine is a country in Eastern Europe and wars in Europe are pretty influential to the rest of Europe. In addition, many countries in the West - the Baltics, Poland, Hungary, Czechia and Slovakia - are maybe a smidgen suspicious of ongoing Russian aggression in the area given prior history of Russia conquering. 

The notion that a country with 40 million people that neighbors Poland, feeds 25% of the world and is actively interested in a more democratic governance would not be interesting to European countries is bizarre. That the ONLY reason that you would want to avoid a refugee crisis of 5 million people fleeing a country is to 'hurt Russia' is obviously stupid. 

 

[mormont]

2 minutes ago, butterweedstrover said:

Let me guess, you’re against a ceasefire and want untrained conscripts thrown against Russia defense lines.

1. Nobody here is against a ceasefire.

2. If you're against throwing untrained conscripts into a fight, I have news about the Russian army.

3. You can't have 'defence lines' in a country you invaded. Those are invasion lines.

[butterweedstrover]

1 minute ago, Kalnak the Magnificent said:

I mean, the stated goal is pretty simple here: the West is interested in Ukraine because Ukraine is a country in Eastern Europe and wars in Europe are pretty influential to the rest of Europe. In addition, many countries in the West - the Baltics, Poland, Hungary, Czechia and Slovakia - are maybe a smidgen suspicious of ongoing Russian aggression in the area given prior history of Russia conquering. 

The notion that a country with 40 million people that neighbors Poland, feeds 25% of the world and is actively interested in a more democratic governance would not be interesting to European countries is bizarre. That the ONLY reason that you would want to avoid a refugee crisis of 5 million people fleeing a country is to 'hurt Russia' is obviously stupid. 

 

Their ‘interest’ is what caused the war. They helped overthrow the government, invested billions into armed militias, supported schools that said Russians were mongols and Ukrainians are pure Slavs, they wanted control even if that meant war. 
 

So why? Where does this obsession come from?

[Kalbear]

Just now, butterweedstrover said:

Their ‘interest’ is what caused the war. They helped overthrow the government, invested billions into armed militias, supported schools that said Russians were mongols and Ukrainians are pure Slavs, they wanted control even if that meant war. 

Citations needed on all of this. You say it like it is actually true when it really isn't. 

 

[butterweedstrover]

2 minutes ago, mormont said:

1. Nobody here is against a ceasefire.

2. If you're against throwing untrained conscripts into a fight, I have news about the Russian army.

3. You can't have 'defence lines' in a country you invaded. Those are invasion lines.

1. Zelensky is 

2. It’s good you see Russians and Ukrainians have the same tactics. Because they are not like you, they are Rus. When you call Russians ‘orcs’ for being not part of the civilized Europe, you are also calling Ukrainians orcs. 
 

3. It’s a defense line, no one calls it an invasion line.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

3 minutes ago, butterweedstrover said:

Ukraine is Russia, they are the Rus people. 
 

Nordic countries share a culture and people, they don’t have revisionist Nazis in their population who think Icelanders are ethnically superior to Norwegians, because that would be a joke. 
 

However, in the west Banderites are nurtured and given a platform to spew historical revisionism, that Russians are mongols and Ukrainian are the true heirs to Kievan Rus. 
 

This is what THEY say, and you promoted this ideology in schools all across Ukraine.

Russia certainly claims Ukraine is Russia.  It isn’t.  No more than Poland is Russia, Finland is Russia, Lithuania is Russia, Latvia is Russia, Estonia is Russia, or Alaska is Russia.

They were all, once part of Russia, now are not… is Russia entitled to all those other places too?

[butterweedstrover]

1 minute ago, Kalnak the Magnificent said:

Citations needed on all of this. You say it like it is actually true when it really isn't. 

 

That’s literally what the Banderites say, and government officials repeat it verbatim. 
 

They also have child soldier camps: 

 

[butterweedstrover]

1 minute ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Russia certainly claims Ukraine is Russia.  It isn’t.  No more than Poland is Russia, Finland is Russia, Lithuania is Russia, Latvia is Russia, Estonia is Russia, or Alaska is Russia.

They were all, once part of Russia, now are not… is Russia entitled to all those other places too?

Polish are ethnically Poles, Finland are Finnish, Estonia are Estonians. 
 

Ukraine literally means borderlands, borderlands of Rus. They are the same ethnic composition. 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Just now, butterweedstrover said:

Polish are ethnically Poles, Finland are Finnish, Estonia are Estonians. 
 

Ukraine literally means borderlands, borderlands of Rus. They are the same ethnic composition. 

And… you… get to decide who is and is not Russian?  Really.  Once again… what does DNA have to do with culture?  You still haven’t explained that one.

[Kalbear]

Just now, butterweedstrover said:

That’s literally what the Banderites say, and government officials repeat it verbatim. 

That's not the only claim you made. 

You said billions were poured in by the west to create these militias that you say exist. Where's the proof here?

You say that the West spent billions supporting an education to make the Russians made out to be mongols. Where's the proof here? 

 

Just now, butterweedstrover said:

They also have child soldier camps: 

So this is the Azov stuff again. So your proof of billions of investment from the West is an entirely homegrown subset of folks in the Ukraine which has already been disavowed by the official government several times and does not have actual political power.

Again, always appreciate you providing links that completely negate your point!

[Kalbear]

5 minutes ago, butterweedstrover said:

Ukraine literally means borderlands, borderlands of Rus. They are the same ethnic composition. 

You keep saying this like it matters or should matter in the slightest. (you also contradict yourself by saying that Russians are not one single ethnic group but a whole bunch of them, but your lack of internal consistency isn't the main point on this one).

Why does it matter if they are the same ethnic composition? I mean, the same is true for the US and Canada; does the US have a right to invade Canada? Does Canada have a right to invade the US?