Ukraine War: Poor put upon Russia… why will the world not just let it rape, kill, and steal toilets from Ukraine… in peace?

[Week]

It's weird - Russia keeps missing legitimate military targets and seems to directly hit important non-combatant targets that would be war crimes. What rotten luck to keep accidentally commiting war crimes.

 

 

[Zorral]

9 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Breaking News:

Erdogan has given up his resistance towards Sweden joining NATO

Woo.

So ... Biden's giving him the armaments he wants? I mean, I have no idea.  But it did seem almost a contradiction that he let Zelensky take home the captured Ukrainian officers, which made you know who howl like a hammer fell on his bare toe, that Erdoğan was going to say no to this. He's most certainly well-versed in the era when the Ottomans ruled big parts of Crimea and pieces all over what is Ukraine (though they didn't keep them, more occupied by the west and the Mediterranean for the empire to give this much attention -- not to mention the slave trade).

Um if everybody is somebody else except those who live in Ukraine, what happened to all the Slavs?  Where did they go?  Isn't there something like a pan-slavic ideal? Absolutely a chatbot.

Edited July 10, 2023 by Zorral

[A Horse Named Stranger]

Only saw the breaking news headline. 

So no idea what he got in return. His latest demand for an EU membership should (have) be(en) a non-starter.

Speculation on my part: Probably some F16s from Uncle Joe and some financial aid from the EU (in some shape or form).

[butterweedstrover]

37 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Yeah… no.  Catherine the Great conquered and forced Ukraine into the Ruassian empire during the 18th Century.  Ukrainians never gave up a sense of distinction and difference… or are you going to advocate that Ireland is really part of the UK and the UK should be able to forcibly reincorporate Ireland into the UK?

No, she conquered land from the Polish-Lithuanian union that was later gifted (by Russia) to Ukraine. 

[butterweedstrover]

17 minutes ago, Zorral said:

You betcha I don't want any ceasefire with the Scythians and want to throw all the inhabitants in the region from the era circa 7th BC under the age of 70 against both the Scythians and Persia!  When nothing remotely like russians or russia existed and wouldn't for nearly 1500 years.

Good grief, you responded with this to a post about a book which is the history of Scythians, Persians, Greeks and Romans? This is looking more and more like a chatbot loosed by russian interests doesn't it? -- or else utter terror that the history of the region prior to the muscovy dukedom be even embedded in a book that is discussed.

So you’re pro-war. You said you hated war, but I guess you don’t.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

18 minutes ago, butterweedstrover said:

No, she conquered land from the Polish-Lithuanian union that was later gifted (by Russia) to Ukraine. 

It wasn’t previously… Russia.  Therefore the people there weren’t “Russian”.

Edited July 10, 2023 by Ser Scot A Ellison

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

5 minutes ago, butterweedstrover said:

So you’re pro-war. You said you hated war, but I guess you don’t.

Is Ukraine fighting to liberate territory overrun by Russian forces the equivalent of Russia’s invasion?

[Varysblackfyre321]

Now Things are getting SERIOUS.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

34 minutes ago, Week said:

It's weird - Russia keeps missing legitimate military targets and seems to directly hit important non-combatant targets that would be war crimes. What rotten luck to keep accidentally commiting war crimes.

 

 

Yup.  Either they’re malicious… or they suck.

[Varysblackfyre321]

2 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Yup.  Either they’re malicious… or they suck.

Both is an option 

[Kalbear]

I guess my feeling is that you shouldn't engage on the 'are Ukrainians actually Russian' viewpoint because it does not matter in the least. Even if they were 100% Russian in every single possible way, including language, eating habits and favorite sex positions it would STILL be not acceptable to invade their nation. 

Because the nation is Ukraine. Russia can choose to believe that it doesn't exist and shouldn't exist, but that belief and viewpoint doesn't make it so. 

That all said, again it's educational to understand that the actual Russian position is that Ukraine as a separate nation doesn't exist (despite the 1991 agreement) because it implies a certain type of future scenario that is important. 

[butterweedstrover]

33 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Is Ukraine fighting to liberate territory overrun by Russian forces the equivalent of Russia’s invasion?

War is war, everyone thinks their fight is justified. I’m sure Russians thought they were liberating Crimea. 
 

If you’re against war, you’re against war. Not just war you think is good.

[Kalbear]

1 minute ago, butterweedstrover said:

War is war, everyone thinks their fight is justified. I’m sure Russians thought they were liberating Crimea. 
 

If you’re against war, you’re against war. Not just war you think is good.

So you're not in favor of war then? Or are you in favor of war? 

[Varysblackfyre321]

2 minutes ago, butterweedstrover said:

If you’re against war, you’re against war.

So do you condemn Putin for starting the war?

[Zorral]

55 minutes ago, butterweedstrover said:

So you’re pro-war. You said you hated war, but I guess you don’t.

You authoritarian non-factual rhetoricians are all the same, using exactly the same rhetorical 'techniques, to derail from the subject at hand.'

Also lacking the ability to recognize sarcasm and irony, those decadent western practices, anymore than knowing what twerking is.

P.S. you have praised Russia for being war monger and making war.  We have noticed.

Edited July 10, 2023 by Zorral

[SeanF]

Problem is, Putin’s Russia is even more decadent than the West is, completely riddled with sleaze and sexual deviance.

Going off at a tangent, how would one describe the USA?  Not an empire exactly, but not a typical nation state.

Perhaps a hegemonic power, like Rome around 200 BC, or Macedon?

[Derfel Cadarn]

32 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

So do you condemn Putin for starting the war?

BUT THE BALLET!!!!!

 

Meanwhile, who had Putin down on their bingo cards as the saviour of NATO?

Edited July 10, 2023 by Derfel Cadarn

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

6 minutes ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

BUT THE BALLET!!!!!

 

Meanwhile, who had Putin down on their bingo cards as the saviour of NATO?

I’m sure Putin is pissed he hasn’t gotten his steak knives for successful NATO recruitment and expansion.

Edited July 10, 2023 by Ser Scot A Ellison

[Tywin et al.]

41 minutes ago, Kalnak the Magnificent said:

I guess my feeling is that you shouldn't engage on the 'are Ukrainians actually Russian' viewpoint because it does not matter in the least. Even if they were 100% Russian in every single possible way, including language, eating habits and favorite sex positions it would STILL be not acceptable to invade their nation. 

You're just saying that because you're only 50% bear. 

[ThinkerX]

1 hour ago, butterweedstrover said:

The alternative to Putin is not a liberal puppet state, but someone like Prigozhin or Lukashenko who will destroy the corrupt mafia as Stalin once did.

'Liberal Puppet State' and 'Russia' do not belong in the same sentence.

There is no reason to believe Prigozhin's would be any less corrupt than Putin's. More brutal, definitely, but the only effect that will have will be to destroy the country as the outlying provinces rise in rebellion - and the troops needed to suppress that are all dead in Ukraine.

You also ignored my other point: end of the day, the Ukrainian military is mostly a volunteer force whose members are motivated to repel what they see as an invading force - contrasted with Russian mobilizations that resulted in hundreds of thousands fleeing the country or going into hiding - which means those people do not see 'Greater Russia' as a cause worth dying for.