The lady is a tramp

[astarkchoice]

In hindsight doesnt it seem.odd ned and cat where so worried about arya being tomboyish given they know the mormonts? And the reeds?

 

[sweetsunray]

Cat didn't know the Mormont women really, until riding south with them. And I would think that Alysanne would freak out Cat on what could become of Arya, though Cat recognizes that Dacey can be graceful too.

[Craving Peaches]

I think Catelyn was worried from the perspective of wanting to organise a Southron marriage for Arya. But it's not entirely clear, and Ned doesn't seem as bothered by it. Maybe it's just one of those things from the first book?

[Nevets]

11 hours ago, astarkchoice said:

In hindsight doesnt it seem.odd ned and cat where so worried about arya being tomboyish given they know the mormonts? And the reeds?

 

Reeds and Mormonts are hardly a good comparison.  The Reeds are invisible, hidden in a swamp, and the Mormont women are looked at a bit askance.  

She's been described as always dirty, with messy hair and frequently mistaken for a stableboy.   Half a boy and half a wolf pup, she is rebellious and defiant, collects scabs like crazy, says whatever comes into her head, and has no interest in becoming a lady, or even doing ladylike activities, like sewing and needlework.

And yet she is expected to marry someone of high rank, probably southron; most likely the heir of a great house or major vassal.  Not only do they have to find someone Arya can get along with, that family has to approve of her.  With a girl like I just described that won't be easy.

Edited September 9, 2023 by Nevets

[LongRider]

Neither the Mormont women nor the Reed women are tramps as they are warrior women.   Dacy Mormont, had she lived, would have been a good role model for Arya.  Meera as well, not only is Meera highly skilled with the weapons of her people, but she is also self-sufficient and has great empathy for others.  Arya may have found them both admirable, if she ever had the chance to meet them, especially Meera, as she was able to keep Bran fed, protected and safe in their journeys.  

 

[Alester Florent]

9 hours ago, Nevets said:

And yet she is expected to marry someone of high rank, probably southron; most likely the heir of a great house or major vassal.  Not only do they have to find someone Arya can get along with, that family has to approve of her.  With a girl like I just described that won't be easy.

Elmar was perfect for her. The Freys don't seem to care about your personality, just your status.

[Tyrosh Lannister]

In Bear Island, because there aren't that many men, women fend off against ironborn and wildling raiders. Women in Bear Island are expected to learn to fight because it's a necessity . When Southron lynese hightower visits the main castle, she's shocked to see a statue or mural of a woman breastfeeding a babe and wielding a battleaxe . Because of her upbringing she thinks this is not womanly. In the South men do all f the combat.

Catelyn thinks in a similar way thanks to her similar upbringing . I think she is shocked to also see a woman fighting a match (Brienne). 

[Nevets]

4 hours ago, Tyrosh Lannister said:

In Bear Island, because there aren't that many men, women fend off against ironborn and wildling raiders. Women in Bear Island are expected to learn to fight because it's a necessity . When Southron lynese hightower visits the main castle, she's shocked to see a statue or mural of a woman breastfeeding a babe and wielding a battleaxe . Because of her upbringing she thinks this is not womanly. In the South men do all f the combat.

Catelyn thinks in a similar way thanks to her similar upbringing . I think she is shocked to also see a woman fighting a match (Brienne). 

Bear Island and the Mormonts are hardly typical even by Northern standards.  If any other house has a female martial tradition I'm not aware of it.  Meera can defend herself adequately, but would be hard pressed against more than one person, especially if armed.  And I haven't seen anyone else other than Brienne using weapons, and she's unusual by any standard.

Even Ned thinks she needs to spend time in a Southern court, obviously expecting it to change her for the better.  I think he sees her tomboy nature, not unreasonably, as a phase. He certainly wasn't happy about finding the sword.  I think he only allowed her to keep it as a quid pro quo for good behavior.  I see Wylla Manderly as the sort of person Arya could become.  She's a lady now, albeit an unconventional and outspoken one, and I bet she was a tomboy when younger.

12 hours ago, Alester Florent said:

Elmar was perfect for her. The Freys don't seem to care about your personality, just your status.

Actually, she and Elmar did get along well together, though I wonder how he would feel knowing she was his betrothed.  I sometimes wonder if Roose suspected who she was and threw them together for that reason.  Probably not, but it makes for interesting speculation.

[The Lord of the Crossing]

On 9/8/2023 at 2:19 PM, astarkchoice said:

In hindsight doesnt it seem.odd ned and cat where so worried about arya being tomboyish given they know the mormonts? And the reeds?

 

The concern mostly were coming from Cat and the Septa.  They came from a more gentle society compared to the savage brutality, ignorance, and backwardness of the north. 

[Daena the Defiant]

Indeed, the only "warrior woman" that would have been in Catelyn's "cultural vocabulary" would probably have been Lady Danelle Lothston of Harrenhal, who did lead men in battle (or at least ride out with them), and she had a storied set of black plate armor, but in her lifetime, she was decried as "Mad Danelle" and was considered mentally ill, and when she died, she passed into Riverlands culture as a witch who stole children and ate them.  These are things that a marriage minded and politically savvy noblewoman like Catelyn would most certainly like to avoid for her own daughters. 

[Darth Sidious]

On 9/8/2023 at 5:19 PM, astarkchoice said:

In hindsight doesnt it seem.odd ned and cat where so worried about arya being tomboyish given they know the mormonts? And the reeds?

 

Dad and Mom had hopes of marrying her to who fits their idea of a reputable lord. An inelegant, dirty, rude, crude daughter isn’t gonna attract Mr. Right. 

[kissdbyfire]

2 hours ago, Darth Sidious said:

Dad and Mom had hopes of marrying her to who fits their idea of a reputable lord. An inelegant, dirty, rude, crude daughter isn’t gonna attract Mr. Right. 

Doesn’t have to be Mr. Right, it’s enough it isn’t a sibling-shagger.

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

4 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Doesn’t have to be Mr. Right, it’s enough it isn’t a sibling-shagger.

Ramsay Bolton is asking to hold his beer.

Edited September 15, 2023 by Takiedevushkikakzvezdy

[kissdbyfire]

22 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

Ramsay Bolton is asking to hold his beer.

Huh?

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

5 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Huh?

I meant that Ramsay isn't a sibling-shagger, but he is far from a good match.

Edited September 15, 2023 by Takiedevushkikakzvezdy

[kissdbyfire]

Just now, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

I meant that Ramsay isn't a sibling-shagger, but he is far from a good match.

What sibling? Did he shag Domeric before his untimely death? Even if he did, what’s that got to do w/ Arya? 

[Jaenara Belarys]

She and Ned wanted a southern marriage, didn't they?

[astarkchoice]

On 9/16/2023 at 1:18 AM, Jaenara Belarys said:

She and Ned wanted a southern marriage, didn't they?

Probably but once they saw that wasnt taking they probably shoulda considered a cannog lord or a mormont.....or hell dorne! If the sand snakes are tolerated send her to a nice dornish lord

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

On 9/16/2023 at 2:18 AM, Jaenara Belarys said:

She and Ned wanted a southern marriage, didn't they?

It's never stated outright. But I think that at least Catelyn wanted a Southern marriage, which is probably why Arya got to follow Ned to King's Landing. 

Edited September 21, 2023 by Takiedevushkikakzvezdy

[Ser Arthurs Dawn]

On 9/9/2023 at 10:07 PM, Nevets said:

Bear Island and the Mormonts are hardly typical even by Northern standards.  If any other house has a female martial tradition I'm not aware of it.

Do the Northern Mountain Clans not practice this? I can't recall, but they have good reason to train their women to fight. And for some reason, I've always pictured Arya Flint as a shieldmaiden.