Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 1 minute ago, polishgenius said: Someone noted on twitter that a couple of the speeches used metaphors or allusions that made them sound written by an American- references to apple pie and whatnot. I haven't the time nor inclination to comb through them and figure out if that's true, but there's certainly a certain borrowing of gameplan going on. Many comments from conservatives in the UK sound like they were written by US based PR consulting firms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derfel Cadarn Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 19 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: Many comments from conservatives in the UK sound like they were written by US based PR consulting firms. Probably are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 Tories seem to be scrabbling around trying to get ideas from ANYWHERE. Mainly because they don’t have any kind of coherent vision for Britain or how they want to rule, so it’s all incredibly reactive and all over the place. They see polling about one issue one week and so that is their focus, or ULEZ is an issue that wins some votes somewhere and so suddently Tories are the party of the car owner.. or something. Its all so desperate and depressing. UK voters are crying out for a party with a bigger vision to do something meaningful whilst in power, but instead we have Labour and the Tories, neither of which have much of an idea of what they want to do other than win an election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Anti-Targ Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 34 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: Tories have been running your country for nearly a decade and a half. Everyone of their PMs has sucked and the party is shit, but still, they have power. At least in that timeframe we've elected two Democratic presidents and legislative majorities. And yet, in the overall scheme of things there's not a lot of difference between the two. Still captive of neoliberal economic thinking and possibly the worst of all possible kinds of capitalism. If progressives want to stop being shunted from power because they continue to fail to deliver on progressive promises they need to completely transform the economic paradigm, because continuing to operate as we are will end up feeding the somehow more appealing populism of the right, which mostly consists of finding a wide variety of people to blame for the shit except for the ones who are actually responsible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 13 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said: And yet, in the overall scheme of things there's not a lot of difference between the two. One of these parties is openly playing with mad conspiracy theories, racism, homophobia, and transphobia, is reversing progress on climate change, has wrecked the economy, is corrupt from top to bottom and is experimenting witn vote suppression. The 'overall scheme of things' is not always about economics. These things matter. Saying 'there's not a lot of difference between the two' is either foolish or callous. I wish there were more difference, including on economics, but saying that is to brush aside the very real importance of these differences to people's lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 18 minutes ago, mormont said: One of these parties is openly playing with mad conspiracy theories, racism, homophobia, and transphobia, is reversing progress on climate change, has wrecked the economy, is corrupt from top to bottom and is experimenting witn vote suppression. If there is any silver living for the Tories, they are banking on university educated lefties loudly saying stuff like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFatCoward Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said: Tories have been running your country for nearly a decade and a half. Everyone of their PMs has sucked and the party is shit, but still, they have power. At least in that timeframe we've elected two Democratic presidents and legislative majorities. Tories are 20 points down in the polls, How's that lunatic doing over there? And ours are just inept, mildly corrupt. Not outright fascist dictators in plain sight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Anti-Targ Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 1 hour ago, mormont said: One of these parties is openly playing with mad conspiracy theories, racism, homophobia, and transphobia, is reversing progress on climate change, has wrecked the economy, is corrupt from top to bottom and is experimenting witn vote suppression. The 'overall scheme of things' is not always about economics. These things matter. Saying 'there's not a lot of difference between the two' is either foolish or callous. I wish there were more difference, including on economics, but saying that is to brush aside the very real importance of these differences to people's lives. I'm talking about the two countries, not the two parties. It really does come down to economics, without economic justice there's no justice in anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derfel Cadarn Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 Petition for general election https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/641904 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 1 hour ago, The Anti-Targ said: It really does come down to economics, without economic justice there's no justice in anything else. This is as reductive as it is untrue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 Anyway, that was the Tory conference, I guess. A barrage of bigotry and grandstanding, with an unsubtle undercurrent of yet more manoeuvering for a leadership challenge, all overshadowed by days of blatant lies that everyone knew were lies and were revealed to be lies in the leader's speech. What a crowd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltaran Posted October 5, 2023 Author Share Posted October 5, 2023 What I don’t understand is why Labour haven’t come out and said we’re going to keep HS2 if we win. It seems like a big obvious move to show that they aren’t just Tory lite, and would be popular in the Northern seats they need to win back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pebble thats Stubby Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 4 minutes ago, Maltaran said: What I don’t understand is why Labour haven’t come out and said we’re going to keep HS2 if we win. It seems like a big obvious move to show that they aren’t just Tory lite, and would be popular in the Northern seats they need to win back. what happens if the government sell off the land they bought for this in the mean time? (probably cheaply to donor house builders) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liffguard Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 31 minutes ago, Maltaran said: What I don’t understand is why Labour haven’t come out and said we’re going to keep HS2 if we win. It seems like a big obvious move to show that they aren’t just Tory lite, and would be popular in the Northern seats they need to win back. Probably because Starmer is terrified of being accused of wanting to spend money on anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 47 minutes ago, Maltaran said: What I don’t understand is why Labour haven’t come out and said we’re going to keep HS2 if we win. It seems like a big obvious move to show that they aren’t just Tory lite, and would be popular in the Northern seats they need to win back. It's not even a popular idea in the north, from what I can tell more people would be interested in more rail links from Manchester to Liverpool or Leeds than one to London. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 7 hours ago, mormont said: One of these parties is openly playing with mad conspiracy theories, racism, homophobia, and transphobia, is reversing progress on climate change, has wrecked the economy, is corrupt from top to bottom and is experimenting witn vote suppression. Isn't that basically both of them. Feels like the Spiderman meme was birthed for Tories and Republicans. 6 hours ago, BigFatCoward said: Tories are 20 points down in the polls, How's that lunatic doing over there? And ours are just inept, mildly corrupt. Not outright fascist dictators in plain sight. Give it time. There's like a five year lag between the UK and the US. But the truth remains the same in both countries, conservatives, when pressed, will pick their party over their country and that's in part where fascism festers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 8 hours ago, BigFatCoward said: Tories are 20 points down in the polls, How's that lunatic doing over there? And ours are just inept, mildly corrupt. Not outright fascist dictators in plain sight. Two words. Cruella Braverman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFatCoward Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 57 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said: Two words. Cruella Braverman. She'd be a voice of reason/moderate in the current republican party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 Nope, I'd think she'd fit right in with the hardline crazies. What I find kinda amazing is that the two biggest pieces of work within the Tory parties are women of colour. Cruella Braverman and Kami Badenoch. Progress, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, A Horse Named Stranger said: Nope, I'd think she'd fit right in with the hardline crazies. What I find kinda amazing is that the two biggest pieces of work within the Tory parties are women of colour. Cruella Braverman and Kami Badenoch. Progress, I guess. I wonder what they think will happen to their children when some Tommy Robinson type is running the country in twenty years. Actually, we know that none of these people give a shit about their kids. Edited October 5, 2023 by Spockydog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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