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UK Politics: Tory Closing Down Sale- Everything Must Go

polishgenius

By polishgenius,
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Which Tyler Council Member

Which Tyler

Posted
Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Right.. so what is the point that is trying to be made? It's damning? Who is it damning? If some of the most powerful positions in the UK are held by non white people, what are we meant to take from the idea that it's damning?

What?
why does it have to be trying to make a particular point? Man wins award IS the point - it's not damning of anything - where are you even getting that from?
Other than, "from not reading the article or knowing anything about it"

 

ETA: Or are you asking the wrong person, and meant to quote BFC, who didn't seem to get beyond the headline, and therefore mistook "influence" for "power", and is the only mention of anything damning about anything here.

Edited by Which Tyler
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Heartofice Council Member

Heartofice

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Which Tyler said:

What?
why does it have to be trying to make a particular point? Man wins award IS the point - it's not damning of anything - where are you even getting that from?
Other than, "from not reading the article or knowing anything about it"

Huh? I was responding to BFGs comment that it was damning. 

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Which Tyler Council Member

Which Tyler

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Huh? I was responding to BFGs comment that it was damning. 

That's what I realised, and editted in (simultaneously to your response, so neither of us would have seen the other's).

In fairness - I thought you were responding to me because you quoted me.

Edited by Which Tyler
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mormont Council Member

mormont

Posted
Posted
46 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Right.. so what is the point that is trying to be made? It's damning? Who is it damning? If some of the most powerful positions in the UK are held by non white people, what are we meant to take from the idea that it's damning?

Not to speak for BFC, but Asian people are not black, ethnic minorities are not a single undifferentiated group, and it is perfectly possible that black people are underrepresented in positions of power while south Asian people are not. 

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Heartofice Council Member

Heartofice

Posted
Posted
Just now, mormont said:

Not to speak for BFC, but Asian people are not black, ethnic minorities are not a single undifferentiated group, and it is perfectly possible that black people are underrepresented in positions of power while south Asian people are not. 

True, but what is the point trying to be made then? If it's damning, what is the suggested reason for it happening? Is it systemic racism? Well doesn't seem so if so many of the most powerful positions are taken up by non white people. 

If you want to actually go and examine the reasons why this might be happening then fair enough, but I know from previous discussions you are pretty dismissive of that.

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BigFatCoward Council Member

BigFatCoward

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, mormont said:

Not to speak for BFC, but Asian people are not black, ethnic minorities are not a single undifferentiated group, and it is perfectly possible that black people are underrepresented in positions of power while south Asian people are not. 

This. 

If the most powerful or influential black person in the UK is the editor of fucking vogue, its a bit worrying.  

Obviously kwarti fucked his chance, but where are the other people in truly important positions? 

I can't find recent figures but sales are probably about 30,000 a month maximum, and to a very specific subgroup. He couldn't influence fuck all. 

Edited by BigFatCoward
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mormont Council Member

mormont

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Heartofice said:

True, but what is the point trying to be made then? If it's damning, what is the suggested reason for it happening? Is it systemic racism? Well doesn't seem so if so many of the most powerful positions are taken up by non white people.

Again, race isn't just white vs non-white. Systemic racism against black people can exist even if south Asian people are in powerful positions. For that matter, systemic racism against south Asian people can (and does) exist even if south Asian people are in powerful positions, in much the same way as sexism didn't end in 1979.

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Heartofice Council Member

Heartofice

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, mormont said:

Again, race isn't just white vs non-white. Systemic racism against black people can exist even if south Asian people are in powerful positions. For that matter, systemic racism against south Asian people can (and does) exist even if south Asian people are in powerful positions, in much the same way as sexism didn't end in 1979.

Yes I agree, race isn't white vs non-white, it's more complex than that. At the same time, if someone wanted to say there are barriers preventing black people getting into powerful and influential positions, then they would also need to point out why those barriers exist for black people, and not asian people. 

It might well be that race is too clumsy a metric when having that discussion. 

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mormont Council Member

mormont

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Heartofice said:

Yes I agree, race isn't white vs non-white, it's more complex than that. At the same time, if someone wanted to say there are barriers preventing black people getting into powerful and influential positions, then they would also need to point out why those barriers exist for black people, and not asian people. 

It might well be that race is too clumsy a metric when having that discussion. 

One could start by questioning whether a tiny, hand-picked and limited selection of admittedly high profile posts really suggest that no barriers exist for south Asian people accessing these positions.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn01156/

https://apolitical.co/solution-articles/en/why-uk-parliament-needs-better-south-asian-representation

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a7f81c6ed915d74e33f6dc4/race-in-workplace-mcgregor-smith-review.pdf

The issue is complex. Some minority groups do achieve highly in order to overcome systemic racism, and succeed, but overcoming that systemic racism in some examples doesn't mean it no longer exists.

I would agree that race is too clumsy as a metric in many ways. Within the south Asian population, there are marked differences between Sri Lankans, Pakistanis, Indians and Bangladeshis, between Muslims, Sikhs and Hindus, and between men and women. It's complicatd. But then, that's what I was saying when I pointed out that saying south Asians hold high office doesn't say anything about systemic racism against black people.

What we can say is that if you want to hold high office, it's a lot easier if you're a white middle aged man. The system favours folk like me. I can see that, and I acknowledge that I benefit from it.

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Derfel Cadarn Council Member

Derfel Cadarn

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Liffguard said:

As many others have pointed out, GB news was always gonna face an uphill struggle, because the niche of barefaced bullshit right wing cruelty was already filled by, y'know, the entire rest of the uk news landscape.

Yeah Rupert Murdoch already holds sway over print media. 

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Heartofice Council Member

Heartofice

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Liffguard said:

As many others have pointed out, GB news was always gonna face an uphill struggle, because the niche of barefaced bullshit right wing cruelty was already filled by, y'know, the entire rest of the uk news landscape.

Except of course for.. all other tv news. 

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