Israel - Hamas War VII

[House Balstroko]

1 hour ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Actions being things like lynchings and just kinda stealing Palestinians when they’re like out getting groceries.

The settlers are often viewed as some of the most extremist Israelis. Yes, a future Israeli government should punish the perpetrators and provide a timeframe for the dismantling of settlements. 

[Zorral]

This West Bank settler violence upon the Palestinians has been reported over the years, if in a rather desultory manner, so we all do know it has been escalating for years, and then sharply escalating since the bibi regime, which has protected and encouraged the violence.

How a Campaign of Extremist Violence Is Pushing the West Bank to the Brink
Israeli settlers and Palestinians have been locked in a cycle of bloodshed for decades. But extremist settler attacks could send the conflict out of control.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/02/world/middleeast/west-bank-palestinians-israel-settlers.html

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.... Palestinians and rights activists blame the increasingly combustible atmosphere on Israel’s right-wing government, whose ministers have vowed to expand the settlements and hand out more weapons to settlers. Deadly Palestinian attacks on Israelis in the West Bank are also at their highest point since the 2000s, adding to the tensions and the sense that this whole territory is on edge. On Thursday, Israeli officials said that Palestinians opened fire on a car and killed the Israeli driver ....

.... Many settlers reject Palestinians’ claim to the land, arguing that Jews have been living in this territory since biblical times and that Israel justly won the territory decades ago in war.

According to Naomi Kahn, a settler who works for a nonprofit organization that supports the settlements, Palestinians say “Everything in the Middle East is their land.”

“Try again,” she said. “I’m not buying it.”

In recent days, threatening leaflets, widely presumed to have come from settler extremists, have been slipped under the windshield wipers of Palestinian cars.

“A great catastrophe will descend upon your heads soon,” read one flier. “We will destroy every enemy and expel you forcefully from our Holy Land that God has written for us. Wherever you are, carry your loads immediately and leave to where you came from. We are coming for you.”

Sam Stein is a Jewish peace activist from Long Island who has spent years working in the West Bank and has physically inserted himself between settler extremists and Palestinians. He said that all the recent violence was “not random acts of hatred.”

Instead, he said, it is a “guided approach” to create “Jewish continuity” in the West Bank.

Jewish settlers are aided in this project by the fact that they are allowed to carry weapons and Palestinian civilians are not. Another recent incident, one of many, shows how Palestinians often pay the price. ....

 

 

 

[Zorral]

11 hours ago, Rippounet said:

It's a legal trick I've learned the hard way

The only legal trick the Criminal Fascist in Chief's lawyers learned well, we see in all the cases for which he's been indicted and has begun to be tried.

[Rippounet]

3 hours ago, Relic said:

Well, this guy obviously needs to die. I would suggest a single bullet to the back of the head. That usually works. What i dont suggest is bombing his entire apartment building. Cuz that's wrong, and morally reprehensible. 

And if you wanted to bomb his building you'd have to give a chance to everyone else to evacuate, otherwise that would be legally reprehensible as well.

It turns out, this could be described as the official position of France. The minister of foreign affairs recently said:

Quote

The protection of civilian populations applies to everyone, to every state at war, to all armed forces; there is a law of war. Israel is a democracy, so it must respect, like all of us, the law of war, and be extremely careful. It is a moral imperative to protect innocent civilians. It is also an international rule. Therefore, one must distinguish between targeted operations, which we understand and are legitimate to confront the terrorist threat, and indiscriminate operations that would harm civilian populations too much, such as, for example, the bombings which undoubtedly cause too many civilian casualties. (…)

https://uk.ambafrance.org/Israel-a-le-droit-de-se-defendre-mais-il-doit-respecter-le-droit-international

This was an interview given on the 27th. Last night, minister Catherine Colonna reaffirmed that "the protection of civilians is an obligation under international law," and the ministry published this brief message:

Quote

France is deeply concerned about the high civilian casualties among the Palestinian population due to Israeli strikes on the Jabaliya camp and expresses its compassion for the victims.

It emphasizes that the protection of civilian populations is an obligation under international law that applies to all parties.

France reiterates its call for an immediate humanitarian ceasefire so that aid can reach those in need in a sustainable, safe, and sufficient manner.

https://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/fr/dossiers-pays/israel-territoires-palestiniens/actualites-et-evenements/2023/article/frappes-israeliennes-contre-le-camp-de-jabaliya-01-11-23

The UN is also concerned:

https://twitter.com/UNHumanRights/status/1719783887633527153

Also, not long ago, the Prosecutor of the International Criminal Court reminded Israel that it had a duty to follow the "laws of war":

 

Quote

https://www.icc-cpi.int/news/statement-icc-prosecutor-karim-khan-kc-cairo-situation-state-palestine-and-israel

The fact that innocent civilians are trapped under the weight of a war they cannot escape and which is not their fault is not tenable. We need to step back and agree it's not acceptable that they're caught up in a war not of their making and they're deprived of an opportunity to live and have the experiences that we have had and the experiences of building a better world. And as a society, we simply cannot accept, I believe, that the brutal nature of war is some fait accompli. We can't willfully turn our faces away from that suffering because it's hard to watch, because it makes uncomfortable viewing. We can't turn our faces away from the suffering of innocents in particular. And we cannot and must not lose sight of the fact that there are laws that govern the conduct of hostilities.

There's no blank cheque. It's not a case that one can do whatever one wants to pursue a particular objective. The laws that we have, the Rome Statute that I operate under, requires that innocent lives are particularly protected. And what is most important is that the application of the law is not theoretical. People have heard promises for a long time. There have been enough words to fill libraries. In my view, the protections afforded by the law apply equally regardless of one's race and one's religion, one's nationality, one's gender.

[...]

In this regard, I have to say that Israel has clear obligations in relation to its war with Hamas: not just moral obligations, but legal obligations that it has to comply with the laws of armed conflict. It's there in the Rome Statute. It's there in black and white. It's there in the Geneva Conventions. It's there in black and white.

Israel has a professional and well-trained military. They have, I know, military advocate generals and a system that is intended to ensure their compliance with international humanitarian law. They have lawyers advising on targeting decisions, and they will be under no misapprehension as to their obligations, or that they must be able to account for their actions. They will need to demonstrate that any attack, any attack that impacts innocent civilians or protected objects, must be conducted in accordance with the laws and customs of war, in accordance with the laws of armed conflict.

They need to demonstrate the proper application of the principles of distinction, precaution and of proportionality. And I want to be quite clear so there's no misunderstanding: In relation to every dwelling house, in relation to any school, any hospital, any church, any mosque – those places are protected, unless the protective status has been lost. And I want to be equally clear that the burden of proving that the protective status is lost rests with those who fire the gun, the missile, or the rocket in question.

 

Edited November 2, 2023 by Rippounet

[Zorral]

6 minutes ago, Zorral said:

This West Bank settler violence upon the Palestinians has been reported over the years, if in a rather desultory manner, so we all do know it has been escalating for years, and then sharply escalating since the bibi regime, which has protected and encouraged the violence.

How a Campaign of Extremist Violence Is Pushing the West Bank to the Brink
Israeli settlers and Palestinians have been locked in a cycle of bloodshed for decades. But extremist settler attacks could send the conflict out of control.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/02/world/middleeast/west-bank-palestinians-israel-settlers.html

 

BTW. Tuesday night, I think, at a private fundraiser among about 200 donors in Minnesota, a rabbi begged Biden to demand a ceasefire.

[kissdbyfire]

3 minutes ago, Zorral said:

BTW. Tuesday night, I think, at a private fundraiser among about 200 donors in Minnesota, a rabbi begged Biden to demand a ceasefire.

Good on her. Here she is for those who haven’t seen it. Many in the audience strongly disagreeing with her.

 

[Zorral]

Student Protesters Walk Out of Hillary Clinton’s Class at Columbia
The action was in protest of what they had perceived as the school’s role in publicly shaming students who had signed a statement saying that “the Israeli extremist government” shared responsibility for the Oct. 7 attack by Hamas.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/01/world/middleeast/columbia-protest-hillary-clinton-class.html?

Quote

 

Nearly 300 students were seated at Columbia University on Wednesday afternoon for a two-hour lecture on women’s involvement in peace processes delivered by Hillary Clinton and Keren Yarhi-Milo, the dean of Columbia’s School of International and Public Affairs.

Not even halfway through the class, about 30 students stood up and gathered their computers and backpacks, as part of a planned student walkout. They joined several dozen other protesters congregating near the lobby of the building.

ImageA group of demonstrators sitting inside a building on Columbia University’s campus. One wall is all windows and a glass door, while the back wall is brown.  
The demonstrators sat quietly in a common area in the International Affairs Building at Columbia University on Wednesday, protesting against the school.Credit...Katherine Rosman

The demonstrators, who sat quietly in a common area in the International Affairs Building — many of them in face masks — were protesting what they perceived as the school’s role in publicly shaming students whose photographs appeared last week on the video screen panels on a truck seen near campus. The screens showed the faces of students beneath the words “Columbia’s Leading Antisemites.” The students said the photographs were taken from a “private and secure” online platform for students at the School of International and Public Affairs.

They demanded “immediate legal support for affected students” and “a commitment to student safety, well being and privacy.”

The students whose images appeared on the video panels were members of groups that had signed a statement about the Oct. 7 attack by Hamas on Israel that said, in part, “The weight of responsibility for the war and casualties undeniably lies with the Israeli extremist government.”

As Dr. Yarhi-Milo and Mrs. Clinton’s class was finishing around 4 p.m., the demonstrators shushed themselves into silence, anticipating that the dean and the former secretary of state would soon walk past the gathered students. That time never came. Word spread that Dr. Yarhi-Milo and Mrs. Clinton had left the building through a side door.

A spokeswoman for Columbia said the university had no comment. The protest came the day after the school announced a new task force on doxxing and student safety.

 

 

[Craving Peaches]

UN says its schools have been attacked. There is also a video from one of the schools which shows what some present believe to be White Phosphorus being used. 

Edited November 2, 2023 by Craving Peaches

[Tywin et al.]

21 minutes ago, Zorral said:

Student Protesters Walk Out of Hillary Clinton’s Class at Columbia
The action was in protest of what they had perceived as the school’s role in publicly shaming students who had signed a statement saying that “the Israeli extremist government” shared responsibility for the Oct. 7 attack by Hamas.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/01/world/middleeast/columbia-protest-hillary-clinton-class.html?

 

They should be shamed. Claiming Israel shares blame for what Hamas did is disgusting. 

[Fragile Bird]

I was just watching an interview with a media specialist on CNN, didn’t catch all the interview, just part.

Hamas had been very active on social media, and slowly but surely all their accounts have been taken down, on Facebook, on Twitter, on Instagram. The last account was just taken down, on Telegram (?). This person explained that these accounts were being used to show Hamas in a positive light, as governors of Gaza, as being helpful, as being victims suffering at the hands of Israel. Apparently there has been a rift in Hamas and the new faction is the one that organized Oct. 7.

Their new social media accounts are all on Arab media, where they live streamed the events of Oct. 7 to show the Arab world what they are going to be doing going forward. Various, milder I think, examples of what they showed were described, like one guy killing someone and then just pumping round after round into the dead body. (Imagine the cheering to this murder porn).

Also being broadcast on Arab social media is the message that Oct. 7 was just the start, that there will be more Oct. 7s, over and over and over, hundreds of Oct. 7s.

If there are going to be “hundreds” of Oct. 7s, I can’t imagine they will all be happening in Israel. Back in the first thread I said that I don’t expect people with machine guys showing up in Toronto and mowing down a few thousand people, but I may be wrong. Toronto has a large and thriving Jewish population. I do think you folks in Europe should expect to see ultra-violence in your city streets. I think it’s inevitable. I would have to expect that terrorists will pop up in countries that support Israel. India, perhaps.

[Ran]

I think I saw Hamas's Twitter/X account was shut down for rules violations the other day.

[Ran]

3 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

There is also a video from one of the schools which shows what some present believe to be White Phosphorus being used. 

If it's in a cannister on the ground, it's not white phosphorous.

In other news, a heart-wrenching moment from Gaza caught by the BBC as a mother grieves for her dead son... and clearly lays the blame at the feet of Hamas, which immediately leads those around her to try and silence her for fear of what Hamas may do to her:

It's worth repeating that part of the reason we hear so little from Gazans is that Hamas has a communication blockade -- residents of Gaza are not allowed to speak to foreign or Israeli press, and any examples of Gazans speaking to press in their own name is done with Hamas knowledge and permission, and sometimes with Hamas members watching.

[Zorral]

8 minutes ago, Ran said:

t's worth repeating that part of the reason we hear so little from Gazans is that Hamas has a communication blockade

Not to mention the communications systems and the power have been taken out.  Hard to text when you can't charge your fone and there's a satellite/whatever blockade.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From 9/11 to Benjamin Netanyahu: The world is learning that toxic masculinity can't keep us safe
Feminists have long warned about men who hide incompetence with belligerence — Israel proves them right

https://www.salon.com/2023/11/02/from-911-to-benjamin-netanyahu-the-world-is-learning-that-masculinity-cant-keep-us-safe/

Quote

 

.... Biden's words may be gentle but he is no doubt aware that Netanyahu's toxic masculinity makes for a fragile ego. So far, his argument seems to have traction in the U.S. and Israel. Whatever the Israeli prime minister hoped to gain from the Hamas-led massacre, he is not getting the uncritical submission to his strongman play-acting that he seems to have expected. Polling shows up to 4 out of 5 Israelis blame Netanyahu for the security failures that led to Hamas terrorizing Israeli citizens. As Zack Beauchamp at Vox wrote Tuesday, "There is a general sense among Israeli analysts that Netanyahu is nearing the end of his political rope." Indeed, while Netanyahu likes to brag about how tough he supposedly is, he's proved himself quite the wimp. As Beauchamp notes, Netanyahu "faced so many hostile questions from reporters" Saturday, at his first press conference since the attack, that "he left early — only answering seven of the 12 questions he was slated to take."

he American press has not extended its general support of Israel to Netanyahu either. On Sunday, the New York Times published a devastating exposé of how Israeli security forces failed to stop an assault that left 1,400 Israelis dead. "The most powerful military force in the Middle East had not only completely underestimated the magnitude of the attack," the reporters wrote, "it had totally failed in its intelligence-gathering efforts, mostly due to hubris and the mistaken assumption that Hamas was a threat contained."

As feminists have long argued, that's one of the most maddening aspects of toxic masculinity: It dupes people into confusing big talk for real action. Authoritarian men like Netanyahu — or like Donald Trump — love to preen about how strong and powerful they supposedly are. It's all a lie, of course, and they often expose themselves as cowards who cringe away from real challenges. But what's alarming is that sexism tricks large swaths of the public into voting for them, supporting them or otherwise putting their trust in men who brag loudly but fail to show any real competence. 

In the U.S., the loss from that misplaced faith in toxic masculinity is almost too great to think about. ....

 

 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

I’ve been avoiding these threads because I can’t even.

’Just dropped in to say, ‘Fuck Keir Starmer!’ Seriously, fuck that guy.

That is all. 

[Tywin et al.]

People with dog avatars really hate this man...

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

1 minute ago, Tywin et al. said:

People with dog avatars really hate this man...

Watch his recent statement about why he opposes a ceasefire. “Two reasons” he says.

It necessarily follows that, according to the talking points someone gave him, the most optimal of all available solutions at this time is dropping bombs on civilians. 

I hope he gets cancer of the ass. 

[kissdbyfire]

12 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

I’ve been avoiding these threads because I can’t even.

’Just dropped in to say, ‘Fuck Keir Starmer!’ Seriously, fuck that guy.

That is all. 

The great human rights barrister!

ETA:,and yeah, fuck him.

Edited November 2, 2023 by kissdbyfire

[Ran]

*watches the statement*

I see nothing wrong with it. There was a ceasefire, you'll recall... all the way to October 6th. Hamas violently shattered it on October 7th. A new ceasefire would literally reset the board to the October 6th position. It means Hamas would in fact be able to regroup and try and launch new attacks. It's been firing barrages of rockets every single day since the 7th (though, in possible good news, the IDF attack seems to have had a toll as the daily launches have fallen dramatically in the last days).

A ceasefire is essentially a call to Israel to give up its war aims and to accept that Hamas has won this round. Absurd.

Humanitarian pause, though. Sounds good, and I'm hopeful there'll be one in the next few days when the IDF's push down the coast meets up with the drive to cut the Gaza strip in half, so as to isolate the north. They could use the "pause" to consolidate, and open passageways to the south for those who are still not evacuated from the north.

Edited November 2, 2023 by Ran

[Varysblackfyre321]

8 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

necessarily follows that, according to the talking points someone gave him, the most optimal of all available solutions at this time is dropping bombs on civilians. 

Hey lot a tories like it when people they perceive as Muslim and/or brown, he gots to win them over to…./s

[Varysblackfyre321]

1 minute ago, Ran said:

new ceasefire would literally reset the board to the October 6th position. It means Hamas would in fact be able to regroup and try and launch new attacks.

Are they going to get to the point of being able to take over Israel?

Edited November 2, 2023 by Varysblackfyre321