Israel - Hamas War VII

[Ran]

2 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Are they going to get to the point of being able to take over Israel?

They don't need to. Their acts on October 7th make it impossible for them to be allowed to repeat what they did.

Al-Qaeda was never going to destroy the US, either, but a state has a responsibility to defend its citizens from imminent threats, or its not worth being a state, and going after Al-Qaeda was absolutely the correct call. (Iraq, less so.)

Edited November 2, 2023 by Ran

[Varysblackfyre321]

2 minutes ago, Ran said:

They don't need to. Their acts on October 7th make it impossible for them to be allowed to repeat what they did.

How many dead Palestinian children must there be to make up for it?

Tens more thousand? 

I feel the blood has been paid well over and we don’t need the ethnic cleasing Israel clearly wants now.

[Tywin et al.]

15 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Watch his recent statement about why he opposes a ceasefire. “Two reasons” he says.

It necessarily follows that, according to the talking points someone gave him, the most optimal of all available solutions at this time is dropping bombs on civilians. 

I hope he gets cancer of the ass. 

I have to agree with Ran here. There was a ceasefire in place and Hamas shattered it in a way that's hard to put back together, especially when Hamas still says their goal is to remove and/or kill every Jew in Israel. A short pause for humanitarian purposes should happen, but it should also come with the release of every hostage. 

[Ran]

1 minute ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

 

I feel the blood has been paid well over

It's not about "blood" being paid. That's barbaric.

It's about stopping Hamas from doing it again. They should consider surrendering rather than using the people of Gaza as shields.

1 minute ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

and we don’t need the ethnic cleasing Israel clearly wants now.

Israel does not want Gaza, I assure you.

[Varysblackfyre321]

2 minutes ago, Ran said:

It's not about "blood" being paid. That's barbaric.

Looks like it.

2 minutes ago, Ran said:

It's about stopping Hamas from doing it again.

Yeah I just think the cost Israel of the methods Israel is using killing tens of tho of kids and ethnic cleasening isn’t worth that noble goal.

2 minutes ago, Ran said:

Israel does not want Gaza, I assure you.

They want dead Palestinians mainly.

[Kalbear]

I don't think a ceasefire will be as profoundly useful for Hamas as you might think. It isn't like the Gazan front is particularly large or they need a large amount of time to mobilize munitions or vehicles to the front. The Oct 7th attack took literally years of training and prep that was actually detected and ignored. A week for a ceasefire is not going to make that a possibility again, especially while Israel is on such high alert for it. 

It's not hugely useful for Israel militarily, obviously. But it would go a very long way towards repairing relations and showing that Israel does actually care about saving Palestinian lives.

[Kalbear]

4 minutes ago, Ran said:

Israel does not want Gaza, I assure you.

I don't think that you can make that assurance. Especially given some of the position papers that have come out. Israel doesn't want to administer Gaza with 2 million Palestinians in it. Israel appears to be considering having Gaza with no Palestinians in it, however. 

[Ran]

A "ceasefire" has substantive diplomatic meaning that goes beyond something temporary. It is essentially notionally the first step to peace.

But Hamas, not being capable of being in peace with Israel, doesn't merit it without some substantial show of good faith, like releasing the hostages and unilaterally ceasing hostilities on its side. 

There's a reason there's wrangling over the language of ceasefire and pauses, and it's precisely because the former is too much for Israel and the latter is too little for a desperate Hamas.

15 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

Especially given some of the position papers that have come out.

Some random thing from a junior research ministry by some anonymous hand. Crazier shit came out of the Bush-era White House, and those didn't go anywhere either. 

I noted that the US was in talks with Israel about ways to get interim administrations from Gaza. The US isn't going to remain supportive if Israel is actually intending to empty Gaza, suffice it to say. That's a move too far.

 

Edited November 2, 2023 by Ran

[Heartofice]

1 hour ago, Zorral said:

Not to mention the communications systems and the power have been taken out.  Hard to text when you can't charge your fone and there's a satellite/whatever blockade.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From 9/11 to Benjamin Netanyahu: The world is learning that toxic masculinity can't keep us safe
Feminists have long warned about men who hide incompetence with belligerence — Israel proves them right

https://www.salon.com/2023/11/02/from-911-to-benjamin-netanyahu-the-world-is-learning-that-masculinity-cant-keep-us-safe/

 

Always a way to crowbar this nonsense in to every situation. 

[Zorral]

6 minutes ago, Ran said:

A "ceasefire" has substantive diplomatic meaning that goes beyond something temporary

It can, though not necessarily, as nothing is necessary when 'war' as we see historically and currently. 

Which is why Biden & Co. employ "pause."  Partly with the idea, it may be likely, to get Israel to knock out some sort of specific and somewhat solid mission and plan for Palestine and Palestinians after it 'destroys' Hamas.

Bibi&Co coz they've run corrupt and oppressive for so very long, have no more a clue how to govern and handle actual emergencies than do 98% of the fascists in the House.  Which is how Hamas was able to do what it did in the first place, including being propped up by Bibi&Co as such a clever plan to make sure there would never be a two-state solution, and help keep them in power forever.

 

[Varysblackfyre321]

4 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Always a way to crowbar this nonsense in to every situation. 

Eh, it works here

Strong men or wanna-be strong men  like Netanyahu mistake brutality for competency and think all they need to do bash everything to get things right.

Edited November 2, 2023 by Varysblackfyre321

[Zorral]

Just now, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Eh, it works here

Strong men or wanna-be strong men  like Netanyahu mistake brutality for competency.

Remember those evocative vids and fotos of big alpha tough guy Hawley and Co. running running running running, knees up to chin, when their own to whom they raised solidarity fists outside the Capitol, when their own busted into the Capitol?

[Varysblackfyre321]

7 minutes ago, Zorral said:

hich is why Biden & Co. employ "pause."  Partly with the idea, it may be likely, to get Israel to knock out some sort of specific and somewhat solid mission and plan for Palestine and Palestinians after it 'destroys' Hamas.

I really hope Biden’s coddling stance on Israel this doesn’t cost him re-election. He’s under the delusion this is the early 2000s or the 90s when there was no large scale supply for Palestinians in any respect in this country.

It enrages me to think so.

3 minutes ago, Zorral said:

Remember those evocative vids and fotos of big alpha tough guy Hawley and Co. running running running running, knees up to chin, when their own to whom they raised solidarity fists outside the Capitol, when their own busted into the Capitol?

And he still acted as a lap-dog to them after they tried to lynch him.

Autocrats are ultimately naturally submissive, they’ve no back bone.

Edited November 2, 2023 by Varysblackfyre321

[kissdbyfire]

3 minutes ago, Zorral said:

Remember those evocative vids and fotos of big alpha tough guy Hawley and Co. running running running running, knees up to chin, when their own to whom they raised solidarity fists outside the Capitol, when their own busted into the Capitol?

Ah I remember that, it was epic. I wonder whether it helped sell his book on masculinity? What a loser. These guys are all losers. 

"Manhood builds on Hawley’s previous tries to become a figure of national relevance: a 2021 keynote on boyhood that the senator gave to the National Conservatism Conference; his boring Christian lifestyle podcast This is Living, which he co-hosted with his wife, Erin; and his last book, an argument against Big Tech. It also draws on his longtime interest in Teddy Roosevelt, the ultimate Man’s Man in politics, who might have done something other than raise a supportive fist and then jog away comically if the events of Jan. 6 had unfolded when he was alive."

 

9 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Eh, it works here

Strong men or wanna-be strong men  like Netanyahu mistake brutality for competency.

This.

[Varysblackfyre321]

14 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

This

He also even started the whole “our military is too woke” spiel.

Ironic(not ironic) happened under his watch under the most far right government Israel has ever had.

 

Edited November 2, 2023 by Varysblackfyre321

[Varysblackfyre321]

15 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Ah I remember that, it was epic. I wonder whether it helped sell his book on masculinity? What a loser. These guys are all losers. 

 

Also I remember him occasionally sporting a sports t-shirt like zelensky when telling men just go find wives to own or something.

[kissdbyfire]

2 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Also I remember him occasionally sporting a sports t-shirt like zelensky when telling men just go find wives to own or something.

Sounds like something he'd say. Pathetic.

[Ran]

As of an hour ago, Rear Admiral Hagari has announced that the IDF has completed its encirclement of Gaza City.

[Kalbear]

6 minutes ago, Ran said:

A "ceasefire" has substantive diplomatic meaning that goes beyond something temporary. It is essentially notionally the first step to peace.

But Hamas, not being capable of being in peace with Israel, doesn't merit it without some substantial show of good faith, like releasing the hostages and unilaterally ceasing hostilities on its side. 

Well, given that they've said that they want a ceasefire in exchange for releasing hostages I think that's kind of implied, right?

I don't know about if Hamas is impossible to be at peace with Israel; they were at peace for several years, multiple times. Is a permanent peace possible? Unlikely. Temporary? Sure. 

6 minutes ago, Ran said:

Some random thing from a junior research ministry by some anonymous hand. Crazier shit came out of the Bush-era White House, and those didn't go anywhere either. 

I noted that the US was in talks with Israel about ways to get interim administrations from Gaza. The US isn't going to be remain supportive if Israel is actually intending to empty Gaza, suffice it to say. That's a move too far.

My point is that you can't be absolutely certain that this is not what Israel wants. I doubt very seriously that it is what Israel could actually get, but Israel has said in the past (and DONE in the past) several actions that would push Palestinians out of the land they're currently on. I just don't think you can say reasonably that Israel's goal is not that. 

[Craving Peaches]

2 hours ago, Ran said:

If it's in a cannister on the ground, it's not white phosphorous.

I'm talking about the trails in the sky...