UK Politics: Rwanda Rehash

[A wilding]

I was also musing about the repeated use of the phrase "in private" above.

To me "in private" means something like "at home with your family" or "having a meal with a few friends". It does not mean "at a large tax payer funded event in a government building".

[Heartofice]

12 minutes ago, A wilding said:

I was also musing about the repeated use of the phrase "in private" above.

To me "in private" means something like "at home with your family" or "having a meal with a few friends". It does not mean "at a large tax payer funded event in a government building".

It was a ‘private off the record event’. 

[BigFatCoward]

10 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

It was a ‘private off the record event’. 

For a government that has repeatedly and horrifically flouted the rules themselves, why shouldnt others?

Fuck em.

 

Edited December 24, 2023 by BigFatCoward

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Two things can be true at once. The joke is disgusting and not funny, but it was also made in a place that seemed safe to take a risk. I do worry a bit about how this in the future further controls how we speak. There's a reason why good comedians don't like performing at colleges anymore for the most part. 

[Heartofice]

8 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Two things can be true at once. The joke is disgusting and not funny, but it was also made in a place that seemed safe to take a risk. I do worry a bit about how this in the future further controls how we speak. There's a reason why good comedians don't like performing at colleges anymore for the most part. 

Next thing you know you could get arrested for telling a joke.. hopefully that never happens in the uk .. 

[kissdbyfire]

6 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

but it was also made in a place that seemed safe to take a risk

I do wonder about the above... Given the absolute mess w/ government officials messages to one another and particularly the content of these messages, then the top 3 officials inexplicably losing thousands of messages, the unashamed & constant lying, the many sex scandals, and so much more - how much of an expectancy of privacy did Cleverly really have? More to the point, though, as @The Anti-Targ said, he is a public figure, a senior government official, and should really behave in a manner that is above reproach.  

I also think part of the problem here is the very cozy relationship between some politicians and journos/the media. Meaning, he probably felt "safe" to make the disgusting joke b/c he saw it as an event where he was among friends. But how is the media supposed to report credibly when the relationship between reporters and reported is, at the very least, very friendly? 

[A wilding]

2 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Two things can be true at once. The joke is disgusting and not funny, but it was also made in a place that seemed safe to take a risk. I do worry a bit about how this in the future further controls how we speak. There's a reason why good comedians don't like performing at colleges anymore for the most part. 

But that is the point. We have a culture of all too frequent abusive behaviour by our politicians (not to mention within other powerful UK organisations). It has been also well argued that there is a very widespread attitude amongst them that abuse is not something to take seriously, and that this contributes to a minority thinking that their abusive behaviour is acceptable or, at the very least, something that they can get away with doing.

In the light of this it is telling that the Home Secretary felt able, in a large semi official gathering, to joke about using a date rape drug. And that he did so on the very day that his government had launched one of their "initiatives" to address drink spiking!

In my personal opinion, this is absolutely news, for all the pearl clutching about politicians needing safe spaces to let their hair down off the record.

[Heartofice]

Oh there is definitely some pearl clutching going on all right… just not in the way you suggest.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

2 hours ago, A wilding said:

But that is the point. We have a culture of all too frequent abusive behaviour by our politicians

I hate to break it to you, but most elected officials in my experience abuse some of their power, as do their staffers. For example, one role I had required my boss and I to walk of the capitol grounds to talk about the campaign and make calls. That's like the best you can hope for. 

[Wall Flower]

A British journalist didn't respect a private conversation. I am shocked!

Also rape isn't funny. Any politician with half a brain should know not to make a joke about it, lame or otherwise.

[The Anti-Targ]

The reason to go after the journalist for committing some kind of unforgivable outrage is because the joke itself is indefensible. So got to deflect. The only thing Cleverly was a victim of was his own stupidity, or naivete, or both.

If you are going to tell sexist, rapey jokes you need to be damned sure about your audience. And the size of audience that won't at the very least cringe at such jokes is becoming diminishingly small.

[kissdbyfire]

43 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

The reason to go after the journalist for committing some kind of unforgivable outrage is because the joke itself is indefensible. So got to deflect. The only thing Cleverly was a victim of was his own stupidity, or naivete, or both.

If you are going to tell sexist, rapey jokes you need to be damned sure about your audience. And the size of audience that won't at the very least cringe at such jokes is becoming diminishingly small.

Well, this is the same bloke who called an MP’s constituency a shithole during PMQs. Maybe Cleverly is not so clever after all.

[Heartofice]

I hope in 2024 we can ban all slightly inappropriate jokes. Think of what a better world we will all live in. 

[polishgenius]

Honestly if people cannot understand that making some inappropriate jokes at some times being fine doesn't mean that making any inappropriate joke in any situation is fine... well, some people can't be helped.

Edited December 25, 2023 by polishgenius

[Heartofice]

48 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

Honestly if people cannot understand that making some inappropriate jokes at some times being fine doesn't mean that making any inappropriate joke in any situation is fine... well, some people can't be helped.

sure and if people can’t understand the difference between making a joke in public and in a private conversation then they cannot be helped either

[kissdbyfire]

The people making disgusting & idiotic jokes should definitely be aware of their surroundings.

[BigFatCoward]

26 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

sure and if people can’t understand the difference between making a joke in public and in a private conversation then they cannot be helped either

If people cant understand the home Secretary making a joke about date rape just after his portfolio announced plans to crack down on it, in a room full of journalists, is not a private joke amongst friends, I don't know what to tell you. Context is everything here. 

It's akin to making a joke about it being a bit crowded at the Hillsborough enquiry. It's completely beyond acceptable. 

[Heartofice]

Just now, BigFatCoward said:

30 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

 

If people cant understand the home Secretary making a joke about date rap

It was hardly a joke about date rape. Let’s not blow it out of proportion. 

[BigFatCoward]

1 hour ago, Heartofice said:

It was hardly a joke about date rape. Let’s not blow it out of proportion. 

It was 'the implication' for all the it's always sunny fans. 

[Fragile Bird]

If you want to hear inappropriate jokes even in these days, go to a party with a bunch of nurses. The stuff they find funny about dying is astonishing.

I suspect a party where most of the people are police officers might expose you to some gross stuff as well.

However, in neither situation, you may notice, did I say “nurses and reporters” or “police and reporters”.

Some people are just stupid, plain and simple. Years ago my brother told me about a party full of lawyers where the wife of one of the lawyers, a customer service/PR person working at a company that manufactured sanitary products for women, entertained at dinner by talking about intimate problems women had with those products that they had written about in letters of complaint. She thought first, the problems were hilarious, and second, any woman who wrote about those problems to the supposed specialists was an idiot. I despised the bitch my whole life without ever meeting her, even though her husband was a great friend from law school.