US Politics: Ballot Mainetenance

[TrackerNeil]

22 hours ago, House Balstroko said:

Both Trump and Biden come with their share of baggage and it would once again devolve into an election of “who is less repulsive” as opposed to which candidate has a better platform. 

This sounds much like the media coverage of the 2016 presidential race. Trump had zero political experience refused to disclose his financials, got into a Twitter fight with Cher, publicly bickered with a Gold Star family, and had the Access Hollywood tape, while Hilary Clinton made sub-optimal use of email. They both had their share of baggage. 

This is exactly the kind of reasoning that got Trump elected, and could possibly get him reelected.

[kissdbyfire]

I don't really understand the comparability of baggages between Biden and the twice-impeached four-times criminally indicted sexual ofender who will be running against Biden, but what do I know.

Anyhoo, Gym Jordan sucks.

 

[DireWolfSpirit]

I hope Biden goes savage offensive if he has any aspirations at actually winning in 2024.

Dagger to the brain attack mode. America will not reward a Mr nice guy Mondale/Dukakis/Carter effort and too many people just see Jimmy Carter up there presently.

Stand up to the bully Joe and keep beating him, if he trips up, do net let up and then you may stand a chance.

If he plans on not getting bloody he should just hand over the reins now because that is not going work. Trump has to be led into imploding and the manbaby has to bawl before his bootlickers will turn and unclutch thier heroes ankles.

And then he needs to be clobbered more for good measure, show no mercy or dont even run Joe.

[House Balstroko]

51 minutes ago, TrackerNeil said:

This sounds much like the media coverage of the 2016 presidential race. Trump had zero political experience refused to disclose his financials, got into a Twitter fight with Cher, publicly bickered with a Gold Star family, and had the Access Hollywood tape, while Hilary Clinton made sub-optimal use of email. They both had their share of baggage. 

This is exactly the kind of reasoning that got Trump elected, and could possibly get him reelected.

Apologies if the wording made it seem like I was trying to equate the two. Of course, Biden is much better than Trump in every imaginable aspect. I meant in terms of how the general populace perceives things. Many wrongly believe in the things Republicans say about Biden. 
My biggest concern is that this election will play out like Trump vs Hilary in 2016. 

[DireWolfSpirit]

25 minutes ago, House Balstroko said:

My biggest concern is that this election will play out like Trump vs Hilary in 2016. 

Same here, thats why I worry Biden will think just campaigning on his accomplishments (taming inflation, the chips act and decent employment numbers) will get him reelected.

He will likely need to be more aggressive and negative at the Trump bully than he's ever been, he will need to step outside himself to be successful.

 The Joe Biden we see today is not going to win unless he turns perceptions around, he has a LOT of work to accomplish over the next 10 months or so.

[Phylum of Alexandria]

40 minutes ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

He will likely need to be more aggressive and negative at the Trump bully than he's ever been, he will need to step outside himself to be successful.

You're never going to out-nasty Trump. Biden's best course is to use Trump as a contrast, to be a normal, sane, decent guy working to get things done rather than cause chaos and drama.

[DireWolfSpirit]

1 hour ago, Phylum of Alexandria said:

You're never going to out-nasty Trump. Biden's best course is to use Trump as a contrast, to be a normal, sane, decent guy working to get things done rather than cause chaos and drama.

You are wildly over estimating the American voter.

The public has that exact contrast currently of a normal, sane, decent, accomplished President yet he polls no better than the orange, drooling, disgraceful lunatic.

Americans will not reward Biden for taking the high ground in this one.

Biden stands a chance if he looks like a dragon slayer, unafraid of any battle. He will have to go negative and run a historically nasty campaign or likely lose pretty badly.

Hes behind in every battleground state, uninspiring to younger voters and minorities as Mr. Nice guy.

[Phylum of Alexandria]

1 minute ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

You are wildly over estimating the American voter.

The public has that exact contrast currently of a normal, sane, decent, accomplished President yet he polls no better than the orange, drooling, disgraceful lunatic.

Americans will not reward Biden for taking the high ground in this one.

Biden stands a chance if he looks like a dragon slayer, unafraid of any battle. He will have to go negative and run a historically nasty campaign or likely lose pretty badly.

Hes behind in every battleground state, uninspiring to younger voters and minorities as Mr. Nice guy.

Respectfully disagree on all counts. The public, other than us ultra-active followers, does not currently get that contrast. As I pointed out in a previous comment, focus groups on swing voters indicate that most of these people don't even think Biden and Trump will actually be the contenders. They're not paying attention. And Trump is in the news, but people don't feel overwhelmed by his presence like they used to. That's something that will change once the national race begins in earnest. 

I don't overestimate the common voter: I think they are far more likely to view Trump as exhausting rather than a true authoritarian threat, but I'll take what I can get.

Trump's whole strategy is to muddy the waters and make everyone look just as negative and depraved as he is. I'm not saying Biden needs to be meek, but he needs to project dignity and honest decency, in stark contrast to the shit-mouthed Tasmanian Devil opposite him.

[Jace, Extat]

Convert to Republicanism, repent later when King Trump dies and we are liberated from the tyranny of Ivanka by a Canadian-Turkish coalition in about 13 or 14 years. Sure, they never would have invaded a MALE tyrant, but we'll confront the sexism of our liberation and emerge stronger as a proletariat.

[DireWolfSpirit]

8 minutes ago, Phylum of Alexandria said:

I'm not saying Biden needs to be meek, but he needs to project dignity and honest decency, in stark contrast to the shit-mouthed Tasmanian Devil opposite him.

Ideally that would be enough, but I think there needs to be an element of goading to bring out the maximum Trump manbaby image.

For that he has to have lost his temper and the tantrums can begin. Perhaps when manbaby is in full tantrum mode theres room to position as the only adult choice, so theres that as viable option hopefully.

Edited December 24, 2023 by DireWolfSpirit

[TrackerNeil]

2 hours ago, Phylum of Alexandria said:

You're never going to out-nasty Trump. Biden's best course is to use Trump as a contrast, to be a normal, sane, decent guy working to get things done rather than cause chaos and drama.

Phylum nailed this. It's not about Biden taking the high road; it's about Biden presenting not an imitation but a contrast. Marco Rubio tried to be a bigger asshole than Trump and just wound up humiliating himself. 

Politicians, like entertainers, create a public persona that becomes part of the package they sell to voters/fans. In my time as a stand-up comic, I learned that audiences know when a performance is inauthentic**, so ideally, that persona should be genuine, if a bit caricatured. Trump's persona--a gigantic asshole--is dead-on, and voters sense that. If Biden were to adopt that persona, voters would sense the fakery. Instead, Biden plays the occasionally irascible but generally loving grandfather, which is basically who he is. That doesn't mean he can't run a negative ad against Trump, but if he starts making up rude nicknames or insulting people, he'll pay for it. When Biden goes in for the kill, he does it not like an asshole, but like your grandfather, and it worked for him in 2020. Here's hoping it works again in 2024.

**I learned this the hard way when I bombed in my second stage performance, trying to be who I was not. I didn't make that mistake again.

[Jace, Extat]

16 minutes ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

Ideally that would be enough, but I think there needs to be an element of goading to bring out the maximum Trump manbaby image.

For that he has to have lost his temper and the tantrums can begin. Perhaps when manbaby is in full tantrum mode theres room to position as the only adult choice, so theres that as viable option hopefully.

Does Trump even debate Biden at this point? Does he have to?

[DireWolfSpirit]

3 minutes ago, Jace, Extat said:

Does Trump even debate Biden at this point? Does he have to?

Good question. The only way id agree to debate Trump would be if his micrphone was muted during any responses.  He wont refrain from interrupting or follow any etiquette.

Honestly im certain I couldnt sit through watching a debate with him in it, its too sickening at this point.

[Jace, Extat]

7 minutes ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

Good question. The only way id agree to debate Trump would be if his micrphone was muted during any responses.  He wont refrain from interrupting or follow any etiquette.

Honestly im certain I couldnt sit through watching a debate with him in it, its too sickening at this point.

The republic lies drunken on the lip of an abyss.

Merry Christmas. 

[IheartIheartTesla]

Some of the recent polls in NH have Haley gaining a little bit of ground on Trump, there may still be enough time for her to make it very competitive. If there is a way to pop the bubble of inevitability around Trump's nomination, I'm all for it.

At any rate, proxies will do the best to out-nasty Trump (for instance, I dont think Biden should be out there trying to make "Trump stinks" a thing, but other people already are)

[TrackerNeil]

9 hours ago, Jace, Extat said:

Does Trump even debate Biden at this point? Does he have to?

I proposed this in another politics thread, and I maintain that Biden should not debate Trump. What does it gain him? Everyone knows Biden, and everyone knows Trump, and I doubt there are very many voters whose opinion will be changed by a debate. In fact, I have to wonder if any opinions are changed by presidential debates. Besides, a debate just gives Trump the thing he most craves--attention--so why not deny him that?

There would be some Democratic bedwetting, sure, but Katie Hobbs declined to debate Kari Lake, and that turned out fine. Trump won't debate his Republican rivals now and he's not suffering for it. I can think of reasons why not to debate, but not a single reason why.

Edited December 24, 2023 by TrackerNeil

[Martell Spy]

On 12/23/2023 at 3:22 AM, The Anti-Targ said:

 

Would it be reasonable to suspect SCOTUS doesn't want to have to hear the case before the election? If Trump loses the election then SCOTUS can rule without being accused of interfering in the election to cause his loss. If Trump wins he's once again above prosecution until his term ends, and then SCOTUS can either rule when there's a new president, or Trump will have managed to become president for life and there will be no need for SCOTUS to rule.

I don't know the why, but it seems like they are doing the same thing they did with Trump's taxes. They know they are going to to rule against Trump because the argument is so laughably bad. They knew it with the taxes and now they know it with his "Presidents get to crime all they want with full immunity" argument. So they're letting it play out in courts all the way. And courts are naturally slow unless the SC intervenes to speed things up.

The why? I don't know, but possibly being partisans as that's how they usually roll. They're not willing to completely destroy their reputations to help Trump, but they can help him delay everything. That's just my guess.

[maarsen]

57 minutes ago, TrackerNeil said:

I proposed this in another politics thread, and I maintain that Biden should not debate Trump. What does it gain him? Everyone knows Biden, and everyone knows Trump, and I doubt there are very many voters whose opinion will be changed by a debate. In fact, I have to wonder if any opinions are changed by presidential debates. Besides, a debate just gives Trump the thing he most craves--attention--so why not deny him that?

There would be some Democratic bedwetting, sure, but Katie Hobbs declined to debate Kari Lake, and that turned out fine. Trump won't debate his Republican rivals now and he's not suffering for it. I can think of reasons why not to debate, but not a single reason why.

Debating Trump is like mud wrestling a pig. You get dirty and he loves it.

[Phylum of Alexandria]

1 hour ago, TrackerNeil said:

I proposed this in another politics thread, and I maintain that Biden should not debate Trump. What does it gain him?

I understand the reservations, as every debate with Trump is a horror show. But a formal debate might be the most effective way for undecided and swing voters to have to revisit that horror show, and have Biden clearly contrasted to it.

Otherwise their coverage will just be ads and scripted soundbites, largely tailored to whatever one is browsing or watching.  A debate shows Trump at his most awful. It brings the MAGA faithful even closer to him, but everyone else is repelled.

[kissdbyfire]

7 minutes ago, Phylum of Alexandria said:

I understand the reservations, as every debate with Trump is a horror show. But a formal debate might be the most effective way for undecided and swing voters to have to revisit that horror show, and have Biden clearly contrasted to it.

Otherwise their coverage will just be ads and scripted soundbites, largely tailored to whatever one is browsing or watching.  A debate shows Trump at his most awful. It brings the MAGA faithful even closer to him, but everyone else is repelled.

Yeah, I agree. There's also the fact that opting out helps the crazies push the "too old cognitively impaired" narrative. 

On a side note, did anyone see a photo of tRump w/ some weird wedge-type stuff under the front of his feet at a rally? It was very odd and some were speculating what the hell they were for. Some people said they're used to help w/ balance? I don't remember where I saw it and was wondering if anyone had seen it and had any idea about the purpose.

Edited December 24, 2023 by kissdbyfire