Kyoshi Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 25 minutes ago, Mr. Chatywin et al. said: Seriously... Only missed neo-Nazis. That should have been implied. Naturally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Kyoshi said: That should have been implied. Naturally. Calling Jews neo-Nazis is the height of fucked up. Edited January 28 by Mr. Chatywin et al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 (edited) nvm Edited January 28 by Zorral Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyoshi Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 59 minutes ago, Clueless Northman said: These are countries whose governments would believe anything Israel told them, or at least would pretend to believe anything, and act accordingly, the same way you'd expect North Korea, Iran or Syria to believe anything Putin says about Ukraine. Or, to be blunt, Western countries are basically doing a blatant act of political whataboutism. Exactly this. It's truly frustrating to watch so-called politically-literate people just ignore all of that. Of course Israel has been investigating UNRWA for months. I expect that they investigate literally every aid agency in Gaza and the West Bank on principle. The Hamasification of Palestine is intentional because it always provides the US, UK and all the others with the cover of, "but what if we're actually funding terrorists?" That's why these "But Hamas ... but Hamas ... but what about Hamas" arguments are especially circular. Someone on Twitter said it best, its like cutting off funding to the NHS because of Lucy Letby. It's collective punishment, it's punitive, and if the ICJ didn't make that ruling, would this investigation have yielded these supposed terrorists? straits 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyoshi Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 8 minutes ago, Mr. Chatywin et al. said: Calling Jews neo-Nazis is the height of fucked up. I figured since we were engaging in reductive, intentionally nonsensical, ad hominem arguments, I may as well give it my all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted January 28 Author Share Posted January 28 2 minutes ago, Kyoshi said: It's truly frustrating to watch so-called politically-literate people just ignore all of that. Indeed. But people will keep ignoring, handwaving, and "oh but Hamas-ing" any number of things whenever it is convenient to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 6 minutes ago, Zorral said: Where Is Hamas Getting Its Weapons? Increasingly, From Israel. The very weapons that Israeli forces have used to enforce a blockade of Gaza are now being used against them. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/28/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-weapons-rockets.html .... Israeli officials knew before the October attacks that Hamas could salvage some Israeli-made weapons, but the scope has startled weapons experts and diplomats alike. Israeli authorities also knew that their armories were vulnerable to theft. A military report from early last year noted that thousands of bullets and hundreds of guns and grenades had been stolen from poorly guarded bases. From there, the report said, some made their way to the West Bank, and others to Gaza by way of Sinai. But the report focused on military security. The consequences were treated almost as an afterthought: “We are fueling our enemies with our own weapons,” read one line of the report, which was viewed by The New York Times. .... .... The Oct. 7 attacks showcased the patchwork arsenal that Hamas had stitched together. It included Iranian-made attack drones and North Korean-made rocket launchers, the types of weapons that Hamas is known to smuggle into Gaza through tunnels. Iran remains a major source of Hamas’s money and weapons. But other weapons, like anti-tank explosives, RPG warheads, thermobaric grenades and improvised devices were repurposed Israeli arms, according to Hamas videos and remnants uncovered by Israel. Rockets and missiles require huge quantities of explosive material, which officials say is the most difficult item to smuggle into Gaza. Yet Hamas fired so many rockets and missiles on Oct. 7 that Israel’s Iron Dome air-defense system could not keep up. Rockets struck towns, cities and military bases, giving cover to the militants who stormed into Israel. One rocket hit a military base believed to house part of Israel’s nuclear missile program. .... .... Its manufacturing abilities are now sophisticated enough to saw into the warheads of bombs weighing up to 2,000 pounds, to harvest the explosives and to repurpose them. “They have a military industry in Gaza. Some of it is above ground, some of it is below ground, and they are able to manufacture a lot of what they need,” said Eyal Hulata, who served as Israel’s national security adviser and head of its National Security Council before stepping down early last year. .... .... But the besieged streets of Gaza itself are increasingly a source of weapons. Israel estimates that it has conducted at least 22,000 strikes on Gaza since Oct. 7. Each often involves multiple rounds, meaning tens of thousands of munitions have likely been dropped or fired — and thousands failed to detonate. “Artillery, hand grenades, other munitions — tens of thousands of unexploded ordnance will be left after this war,” said Charles Birch, the head of the U.N. Mine Action Service in Gaza. These “are like a free gift to Hamas.” Yah, good luck with your terrific smart war in 'removing' Hamas, Israel. Perfect though for Netanyahu and Likud, which must stay running things to keep from going to jail. Yet another forever war that serves only the corrupt and haters. Kyoshi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKitttenGuard Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 17 minutes ago, Mr. Chatywin et al. said: Calling Jews neo-Nazis is the height of fucked up. Calling Hamas Nazi gets to be fairly fucked up in the end as well. What gets to be very difficult if Israel and West will want to treat Hamas as the myth many want to sell on Nazi, and its de-nazifacation, and it will not be the the actual historical truth of what happened which is a very mixed bag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fionwe1987 Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 20 minutes ago, Mr. Chatywin et al. said: Calling Jews neo-Nazis is the height of fucked up. Are we saying that it is fundamentally impossible for components of Nazi ideology to adopted by and enforced by anyone who's Jewish? Daeron the Daring 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted January 28 Author Share Posted January 28 14 minutes ago, fionwe1987 said: Are we saying that it is fundamentally impossible for components of Nazi ideology to adopted by and enforced by anyone who's Jewish despite the evidence showing it is possible and so many Jewish voices saying exactly that? FTFY. Kyoshi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fionwe1987 Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 13 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: FTFY. Evidence is one thing. It's there, I agree, but evidence can clearly be misinterpreted , and there can even be genuine difference of opinion about it. I want to know how anyone can imply or claim there's something fundamentally impossible about this, though. That's a get out of jail free card that's awfully risky to give out to anybody. And I'd argue insisting that no one who's Jewish could possibly do anything Nazi-like, and enforcing that insistence, is actually an invite for impunity and brazenness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 8 hours ago, Ran said: Israel exposed a Telegram channel 8 hours ago, Ran said: the IDF has found troves of information So your source that the Israeli claims are reliable is... Israel? Not saying that I don't believe there may be Hamas members in UNWRA, but the whole point is that it is better and more consistent with what has previously been said about Al Shifa etc. to wait for someone who isn't a party to the conflict to investigate... straits and dbergkvist 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted January 28 Author Share Posted January 28 10 minutes ago, fionwe1987 said: is actually an invite for impunity and brazenness. Which is exactly what we’ve been seeing and witnessing for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 49 minutes ago, TheKitttenGuard said: Calling Hamas Nazi gets to be fairly fucked up in the end as well. What gets to be very difficult if Israel and West will want to treat Hamas as the myth many want to sell on Nazi, and its de-nazifacation, and it will not be the the actual historical truth of what happened which is a very mixed bag. I didn’t know that the Nazis killed millions of Palestinians. In fact, I thought they actually had Arab allies in WW 2, because, you know, the Germans were killing Jews. The insult to Jews seems far more serious in those circumstances. wiedzma, JoannaL and Jace, Extat 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 I’m sure it’s quite possible to be critical of Israel without invoking the people who attempted to wipe them from the face of the planet. wiedzma, Tears of Lys, JoannaL and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted January 28 Author Share Posted January 28 Again, not sure if it's deliberate or not and frankly it doesn't matter. Nazi ideology =/= the actual nazis from ww2. And again, there are many, many Jews making the comparison. It's not that hard to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 4 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: Again, not sure if it's deliberate or not and frankly it doesn't matter. Nazi ideology =/= the actual nazis from ww2. And again, there are many, many Jews making the comparison. It's not that hard to understand. How are you able to separate Nazi ideology from the actual Nazis. Like really what is actually going on in your head? Again it’s perfectly possible to be critical of Israel and its policies without going ‘this is just like the Nazis’. Like how little imagination does someone have to have for them to not be able to find another way to phrase it? wiedzma, Jace, Extat and Tears of Lys 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKitttenGuard Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 40 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said: I didn’t know that the Nazis killed millions of Palestinians. In fact, I thought they actually had Arab allies in WW 2, because, you know, the Germans were killing Jews. The insult to Jews seems far more serious in those circumstances. Israel and West is going to use any association with Hamas to be as a licensed to kill or justification for many awful actions. Consider the more complexity of the reality it is a fine point to bring up. straits 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 To be fair to these people, if your third word in every conversation is Nazi or fascist and it’s how you’d describe anyone even to the left of centre, then it’s hardly surprising they can’t think of a single other way to describe political situations. JoannaL, Knight Of Winter, Jace, Extat and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 Well, obviously folks are incapable of following the rules. No more threads on this subject, until and unless I choose to make one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts