Ser Scot A Ellison Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 4 minutes ago, Bironic said: I think in the piece that I remember it was meant more on a humorous level, basically that we humans are such a stupid people and a bad influence overall so if you're intelligent you will understand that you're better off avoiding us... but yes the dark forest hypothesis would probably fall somwhere in there as well... I know… that’s the wink. Bironic 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 (edited) 35 minutes ago, JGP said: Do I need to, Scot? The universe is pretty damned big and likewise aged, there's the timespans and distances we're talking about, then consider the technological infancy of humanity. I mean, Webb's found evidence already of galaxies of a size that defy our theories of the early universe, and instead of billions of galaxies out there its more like trillions... Do I need to go on. You're smart, walk it out. Sure. On that scale it's patently clear humans really, really suck. [turns off the News] More space means more opportunities for intelligent life to arrise. The Fermi paradox asks why haven’t we hear them? The question holds. I do think there is other life in the universe probably intelligent life… it’s simply interesting the we haven’t heard it yet. Edited April 4 by Ser Scot A Ellison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bironic Posted April 4 Author Share Posted April 4 6 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: More space means more opportunities for intelligent life to arrise. The Fermi paradox asks why haven’t we hear them? The question holds. I do think there is other life in the universe probably intelligent life… it’s simply interesting the we haven’t heard it yet. Well I do think there is life out there, but space is kinda big and empty plus we haven't been around for very long and even less time since we sent out signals into space... Sorry didn't realize the wink.. Ser Scot A Ellison 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGP Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 8 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: More space means more opportunities for intelligent life to arrise. The Fermi paradox asks why haven’t we hear them? The question holds. I do think there is other life in the universe probably intelligent life… it’s simply interesting the we haven’t heard it yet. It doesn't. You're not thinking big enough. Anyway, wrong thread-- and I'm pretty sure you and I have had this discussion several times over the years :p Ser Scot A Ellison 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maarsen Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 2 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: More space means more opportunities for intelligent life to arrise. The Fermi paradox asks why haven’t we hear them? The question holds. I do think there is other life in the universe probably intelligent life… it’s simply interesting the we haven’t heard it yet. Think of space as the oceans on our planet. We have basically sampled a glass of water from the seashore. I would hesitate to say no fish live in the ocean because we found none in our glass. I got this analogy from Neil Degrasse Tyson. Space is immensely big and distances are really really immense. The surprise would be if we did find life. Lord of Oop North 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 13 minutes ago, maarsen said: Think of space as the oceans on our planet. We have basically sampled a glass of water from the seashore. I would hesitate to say no fish live in the ocean because we found none in our glass. I got this analogy from Neil Degrasse Tyson. Space is immensely big and distances are really really immense. The surprise would be if we did find life. It's much less about us not finding life and more about life not finding us. Ser Scot A Ellison 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fionwe1987 Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 7 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: Interesting. How do you address the Fermi Paradox? 2 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: More space means more opportunities for intelligent life to arrise. The Fermi paradox asks why haven’t we hear them? The question holds. I do think there is other life in the universe probably intelligent life… it’s simply interesting the we haven’t heard it yet. I agree with JGP. More space may mean more chance of intelligent life evolving, but contact requires two intelligent species evolving to the point of sending out signals that will reach each other at the same time. That means they need to be close enough to each other that they develop these technologies and remain extant for enough time that the limitation of the speed of light is overcome enough to allow signals from one to reach the other. Space is so vast that we cannot guarantee the lack of life in our own neighborhood of the Milky Way, and the rate at which we’re going, we may not be around long enough disseminating/receiving signals for anything more than a 100-200 light years away to make contact. As for actual physical contact, barring faster than light travel, it’s hard to imagine enough members of any species being able to traverse interstellar space in large enough numbers for that to happen. Maybe cryostasis or genetic modification allow us to overcome how hostile space is to life, but the evidence for that is currently very thin, and even granting these seeming impossibilities, Earth isn’t been giving signals to make it an attractive spot to visit for long enough. It’s very possible our locality hosted intelligent life at other time points, though, when nothing on Earth could receive such signals. Ser Scot A Ellison 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 39 minutes ago, fionwe1987 said: I agree with JGP. More space may mean more chance of intelligent life evolving, but contact requires two intelligent species evolving to the point of sending out signals that will reach each other at the same time. That means they need to be close enough to each other that they develop these technologies and remain extant for enough time that the limitation of the speed of light is overcome enough to allow signals from one to reach the other. Eh. That's only true for signals of communication. Other signs of life - artifacts, materials, etc - last a whole lot longer. That's ignoring the notion that once a species starts sending things out they would do so for, like, ever, too. I've heard this idea repeatedly - the notion of timeshifting - and it continues to be the wrong way of thinking about things. We don't need to have constant communication with the Romans to know that Romans existed. The big one is that there's no signs of anything, not just signals in the photonic spectrum. Or at least not ones we're interpreting as information that indicates other life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 1 hour ago, Kalbear said: Eh. That's only true for signals of communication. Other signs of life - artifacts, materials, etc - last a whole lot longer. That's ignoring the notion that once a species starts sending things out they would do so for, like, ever, too. I've heard this idea repeatedly - the notion of timeshifting - and it continues to be the wrong way of thinking about things. We don't need to have constant communication with the Romans to know that Romans existed. The big one is that there's no signs of anything, not just signals in the photonic spectrum. Or at least not ones we're interpreting as information that indicates other life. We're still looking at an incredibly small percentage of what's out there though, and only across the blink of an eye. Even a massive artifact like a Dyson sphere -- that's something we could have already "seen" dozens of times but written off as a planet or exoplanet. kissdbyfire 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Anti-Targ Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 10 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: Interesting. How do you address the Fermi Paradox? There is no need, because the Fermi paradox is not a scientific theory established by rigorous experimentation and confirmation of predictions made based on the paradox. It was just speculative musing made to look sciencey. We can have a conversation about life elsewhere once we've found several thousand planets with more or less identical (or better) habitability potential to Earth and confirmed none of them have any kind of life we could recognise as such. But for now, we haven't even firmly ruled out life arising independently elsewhere in our own solar system. It was only 40 or so years ago that science thought planets around other stars would be rare. No serious scientist thinks that any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 (edited) 1 hour ago, The Anti-Targ said: We can have a conversation about life elsewhere once we've found several thousand planets with more or less identical (or better) habitability potential to Earth and confirmed none of them have any kind of life we could recognise as such. But for now, we haven't even firmly ruled out life arising independently elsewhere in our own solar system. I keep seeing that stated. We cannot (I use “cannot” deliberately) know that. We know their rough location compared to their parent stars and their rough size. No more. That isn’t enough to say they can support life… much less technologically advanced life. Consider if a technologically advanced civilization had visit Earth during the million years of the Great Dying would they have said Earth was “habitability”? Edited April 4 by Ser Scot A Ellison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 Habitable is relative… an environment being uninhabitable for us doesn’t necessarily mean it’s uninhabitable for different life forms unless we’re defining “life forms” as life that is similar enough to our own irt what it needs to well, survive/thrive/etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 Here… to end the derail. A thread to discuss extraterrestrial life, its possibilities, and its prevalence… kissdbyfire 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 @Bironic -- Regarding the Falklands War, btw, currently from The London Review of Books: Quote . . . The Belgrano Diary, a new six-part podcast series hosted by Andrew O’Hagan. It investigates the bloodiest and most controversial military action of the Falklands War: a story of government cover-ups and conspiracies; of whistleblowers, crusading politicians and journalists fighting for the story. And caught in the middle of it all, a young officer whose account of what happened contradicted Thatcher’s in every crucial detail. Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get podcasts – and subscribe to receive every episode as it’s released. Or listen on our website, where you’ll also find a selection of pieces from the archive relating to each episode – including several by Tam Dalyell, who plays an important part in the story – which will be kept in front of the paywall for the duration of the series. The second part went up today. Bironic and kissdbyfire 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 Oh look, Milei basically gave Patagonia to the US and now the IMF, who was sooooo critical of him, is praising him and his economic shock therapy or some such bollocks. Shocker! /s https://www.breakinglatest.news/news/milei-announces-a-joint-naval-base-with-the-united-states-in-argentine-patagonia/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 New challenger to Viktor Orbán leads huge demonstration in Budapest Péter Magyar, once an insider in the ruling Fidesz party, declares that ‘Change has started in Hungary which can’t be stopped’ https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/06/protest-march-budapest-hungary-peter-magyar-viktor-orban-government Quote Tens of thousands of Hungarians protested against the country’s leadership on Saturday in one of the biggest demonstrations in years, organised by a former government insider who has shaken up Hungary’s political landscape. Péter Magyar, a lawyer and former diplomat who used to belong to an elite circle around Hungary’s ruling party, publicly broke with the government in February and is now aiming to challenge the position of Viktor Orbán, the powerful prime minister. Over the past 14 years, critics have accused Orbán of increasingly undermining democratic institutions, cosying up to Moscow and Beijing and overseeing a corrupt patronage network. .... Bironic 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karaddin Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 Saw a few articles about Iran being about to retaliate against Israel over the Damascus Consulate bombing which is depressingly foreseeable. I really hope that doesn't prompt further escalations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 (edited) Well, apparently Iran sort of cleared it w/ the US first. There was never going to be a scenario where no retaliation happened, as the Israeli government knew very well. ETA: and by cleared I mean communicated w/ the us about it. Edited April 6 by kissdbyfire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/06/americas/ecuador-vice-president-arrest-mexico-embassy-diplomatic-tensions-intl-hnk/index.html Quote Mexico is breaking diplomatic ties with Ecuador after police raided its embassy in Quito to arrest former Ecuadorian Vice President Jorge Glas, who had been seeking asylum there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karaddin Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said: Well, apparently Iran sort of cleared it w/ the US first. There was never going to be a scenario where no retaliation happened, as the Israeli government knew very well. ETA: and by cleared I mean communicated w/ the us about it. Yeah, "you bombed our consulate in a 3rd country" is pretty solid grounds for retaliation as these things go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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