US politics - Yes country for old men

[Kalbear]

I think that this misses some of the pain folks are seeing and is going to be seen as too dismissive. The big pain points that I hear and see repeatedly are that housing is broadly way too expensive for everyone across the board, and that the cost of daily things is too high. It's good that unemployment is low and inflation is being reduced, but when people are paying $4 a gallon for gas, paying $1k per month more for houses than they did 4 years ago, they're paying more in credit card debt and fast food costs twice as much as it used to - that's going to be hard to argue that the economy is doing well. It isn't for them. 

[DMC]

46 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

I think that this misses some of the pain folks are seeing and is going to be seen as too dismissive.

On these threads?  Probably, yeah.  Among the American electorate?  Not so much, no.  What's dismissive would be ignoring/neglecting to emphasize the efforts your administration is employing to try and help you out.  Or even, say, getting the Republican House to pass a child tax credit extension last month.

[DMC]

55 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

when people are paying $4 a gallon for gas

This is another simply inaccurate perception.  Most recent citation I can quickly find is gas prices are at $3.40 nationally.  More importantly, projections are gas prices should go down this year.

[mormont]

10 hours ago, Centrist Simon Steele said:

I'm worried about the youth vote as they are particularly angry about Israel and Palestine. My son is 19--he's intelligent, thoughtful, kind--but when I try to talk to him about why voting for Biden is infinitely better for Palestine than Trump would be, he just can't accept it. I think a lot of young voters are in that conundrum. 

Biden's best weapon on this is going to be any time Trump talks about the issue. Trump loves some 'strong man' rhetoric and he's going to say more along the lines of his 'finish the issue' comments. 

[ThinkerX]

Taylor Swift will rally the youth vote, and the vast majority of those she sways will vote D. Even my apolitical daughter took a look at 'Project 47,' which she thought was hilariously evil. 

I have noticed something odd in perusing the comments for articles and social media posts pertaining to Taylor Swift's involvement in politics. The Trump fans, contrary to their usual crude and hostile selves are reluctant in the extreme to attack her directly - almost no name-calling or crude threats, just 'she should stay out of politics.' It is almost like they are afraid of her. 

 

As to Biden being too old, that is what Harris is for - something far too many people forget, here and elsewhere.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

7 hours ago, Kalbear said:

paying $4 a gallon for gas

Not nationwide.  $2.87 last time I filled up.

[Maithanet]

Gas prices averaged $3.21 in Feb 2024, cheaper than they were 10 years ago ($3.35 in Feb 2014).  The argument that gas prices are abnormally high is simply a Fox News narrative, rather than actually fact based. 

[Kalbear]

8 hours ago, DMC said:

This is another simply inaccurate perception.  Most recent citation I can quickly find is gas prices are at $3.40 nationally.  More importantly, projections are gas prices should go down this year.

Nationally, sure. In the places that dems actually live, not so much. And that will only get worse this summer.

Not that it really matters if you're right - $3.40 a gallon is still higher than it was 4.years ago, and is still a daily reminder things are expensive.

[Kalbear]

18 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

Gas prices averaged $3.21 in Feb 2024, cheaper than they were 10 years ago ($3.35 in Feb 2014).  The argument that gas prices are abnormally high is simply a Fox News narrative, rather than actually fact based. 

I don't think comparing the prices to what they were when Obama was potus is quite the win you think it is.

 

1 hour ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Not nationwide.  $2.87 last time I filled up.

I'm sure that will make south Carolinians line up to vote for biden

[Phylum of Alexandria]

7 hours ago, DMC said:

On these threads?  Probably, yeah.  Among the American electorate?  Not so much, no.  What's dismissive would be ignoring/neglecting to emphasize the efforts your administration is employing to try and help you out.  Or even, say, getting the Republican House to pass a child tax credit extension last month.

I go back and forth between this position and Kal's position. I definitely think there is a latency between the reality of recovery and the perception of it, so hopefully the perception improves soon. But it's not simply a lag; it's also true that some aspects remain painfully salient, like the costs of housing. If someone is feeling the bite in one particular area, they're not likely to notice the other stuff improving.

At the same time, given the historic global pandemic that threatened our economy just as Biden took office, I'm surprised that people are so hard on him. Looking at various polls, it almost seems like people gave Trump got a pass on the pandemic, but not Biden! If that's the case, then maybe the people in those polls are just fondly remembering the halycon days before the pandemic, and contrasting that with the more isolated, uncertain times of today. And associating Trump with the happy times and Biden with the hard. That's not at all rational, but people aren't always rational.

As for people on this thread, again I'm ambivalent. I understand the thirst for more substantive change. It's frustrating to  constantly hear people insist that you shut up and just let this current guy bandage up our wounds; maybe some day in the future we can think about being healthy and thriving. I understand the pessimism that comes from that frustration. 

At the same time, I also think that pessimism can serve as a self-fulfilling prophecy, by contributing to a feedback loop of gloom and doom. If spirits are down, political engagement will be low. And when engagement is low, we either lose, or lack the representation to enact substantive change. I accept that some people can be both critical and politically active, but they're the exception, not the rule. And even those exceptional people are likely dampening the spirits of people they encounter, or reinforcing a sense of helplessness and inaction, whether they realize it or not. I don't know the best way around it. 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

10 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

I'm sure that will make south Carolinians line up to vote for biden

I’m going to and gas prices aren’t appreciable higher in NC… 

[Gorn]

9 hours ago, Kalbear said:

I think that this misses some of the pain folks are seeing and is going to be seen as too dismissive. The big pain points that I hear and see repeatedly are that housing is broadly way too expensive for everyone across the board, and that the cost of daily things is too high. It's good that unemployment is low and inflation is being reduced, but when people are paying $4 a gallon for gas, paying $1k per month more for houses than they did 4 years ago, they're paying more in credit card debt and fast food costs twice as much as it used to - that's going to be hard to argue that the economy is doing well. It isn't for them. 

There are plenty of great ideas about reducing the housing costs, that no politician will touch with a 10-foot pole.

Why? Because two-thirds of the electorate are homeowners. They want housing to be more and more expensive, because it directly makes them richer. And they mostly don't give a damn about the remaining third of their fellow citizens.

[Kalbear]

12 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I’m going to and gas prices aren’t appreciable higher in NC… 

They're $3.21. Not that they are going to go for Biden either, mind you.

The other thing to point out is that this pedantic and hyperfocused view on one point is real valuable but it misses the other part - even if they were the same under Trump (they weren't, but if), they still are high for most people. It is a daily reminder things aren't great for people. 

Still, though, I think the cost of money causing both credit cards and housing buys to go up and the idea of buying a home being effectively impossible for even dual earners is one of the major reasons people aren't happy about the economy despite the economy being good - and both of those things are not part of what is being tracked as part of inflation. Interesting to me they were part of inflation back in the 70s and were dropped

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

12 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

They're $3.21. Not that they are going to go for Biden either, mind you.

The other thing to point out is that this pedantic and hyperfocused view on one point is real valuable but it misses the other part - even if they were the same under Trump (they weren't, but if), they still are high for most people. It is a daily reminder things aren't great for people. 

Still, though, I think the cost of money causing both credit cards and housing buys to go up and the idea of buying a home being effectively impossible for even dual earners is one of the major reasons people aren't happy about the economy despite the economy being good - and both of those things are not part of what is being tracked as part of inflation. Interesting to me they were part of inflation back in the 70s and were dropped

Biden was competitive in NC in 2020.  The abortion issue is a hot one there.  NC is worth some effort.

[DMC]

43 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

Nationally, sure. In the places that dems actually live, not so much. And that will only get worse this summer.

Not that it really matters if you're right - $3.40 a gallon is still higher than it was 4.years ago, and is still a daily reminder things are expensive.

…and go down in the fall when the voting starts.  As for “places Dems actually live,” uh, yeah, that too in lots of cases including most swing states.  Dunno what your point here is.

If presidents lost just because prices go up every four years, nobody would get reelected.

[LongRider]

9 hours ago, DMC said:

This is another simply inaccurate perception.

No, it is not.  In California and Nevada I can find many stations that have gas at $4+ per gallon, and very few in the high $3.  Sometimes the regular gas is at $3.99 or just under, only the cut rate stations and Costco.  I do realize however, that presidents usually do have little control over gas prices.  Bragging about buying gas in the $2- or $3-dollar range sounds nice, but that isn't what it is here. 

Edited March 11 by LongRider

[DMC]

1 minute ago, LongRider said:

No, it is not. 

It is at the national level, was my point.  If we just talked about all sorts of prices in, say, California, Vegas, and NYC, that’s obviously going to be fundamentally different.

[Larry of the Lawn]

1 hour ago, Gorn said:

There are plenty of great ideas about reducing the housing costs, that no politician will touch with a 10-foot pole.

Why? Because two-thirds of the electorate are homeowners. They want housing to be more and more expensive, because it directly makes them richer. And they mostly don't give a damn about the remaining third of their fellow citizens.

Thank you for saying the quiet part out loud that the pundit class never wants to talk about.  

[LongRider]

8 minutes ago, DMC said:

It is at the national level, was my point.  If we just talked about all sorts of prices in, say, California, Vegas, and NYC, that’s obviously going to be fundamentally different.

There is more to Nevada than Vegas, and plenty of high gas prices statewide.  

[Ormond]

1 hour ago, Gorn said:

There are plenty of great ideas about reducing the housing costs, that no politician will touch with a 10-foot pole.

Why? Because two-thirds of the electorate are homeowners. They want housing to be more and more expensive, because it directly makes them richer. And they mostly don't give a damn about the remaining third of their fellow citizens.

I think people's feelings about that are more complex, and it depends on whether or not one is actively thinking of selling their dwelling. Most of my friends who own property often complain about its value rising, because that then increases their property taxes.