HEROES

[alguien]

[quote name='Ran' post='1563202' date='Oct 21 2008, 17.12']Weekapaug,

So he's schizo. I still don't see the issue. ;) It's clear to me that he's just not right in the head since he shot up with that concoction, and anything he says or does has to be filtered through that. :)[/quote]

Just watch Jeff Goldblum in The Fly. Its pretty clear that Mohinder's recent arc is inspired by it.

[Week]

[quote name='Ran' post='1563202' date='Oct 21 2008, 18.12']So he's schizo. I still don't see the issue. ;) It's clear to me that he's just not right in the head since he shot up with that concoction, and anything he says or does has to be filtered through that. :)[/quote]
:rolleyes: :)

To be honest, I don't think he was ever 'right' in the head. :P

[quote name='Ran' post='1563202' date='Oct 21 2008, 18.12']I think it'd be rather hard for any mother to think of shooting her own daughter, even if intellectually she knows her daughter would take no harm from it.[/quote]
It likely would be (although Claire can't even feel pain either at this point). However, there still isn't any reason, IMO, that any of the characters should be impressed with what she did. Also, it doesn't change that the whole Doyle part of the episode was terrible. Heh, and don't even get me started on the absurdity of Doyle's power and how they inconsistent the portrayal was.

eta- [quote name='Nadie' post='1563209' date='Oct 21 2008, 18.17']Just watch Jeff Goldblum in The Fly. Its pretty clear that Mohinder's recent arc is inspired by it.[/quote] Are you sure that "inspired" is the word we should use here? :)

[Ashamanic]

[quote name='Weekapaug' post='1563212' date='Oct 21 2008, 18.18']:rolleyes: :)

To be honest, I don't think he was ever 'right' in the head. :P


It likely would be (although Claire can't even feel pain either at this point). However, there still isn't any reason, IMO, that any of the characters should be impressed with what she did. Also, it doesn't change that the whole Doyle part of the episode was terrible. Heh, and don't even get me started on the absurdity of Doyle's power and how they inconsistent the portrayal was.[/quote]
Feel free to go ahead and enlighten me

[alguien]

[quote name='Weekapaug' post='1563212' date='Oct 21 2008, 17.18']eta- Are you sure that "inspired" is the word we should use here? :)[/quote]

Oh, I thought of saying "ripped off" but I decided to be kind. :thumbsup:

[Week]

[quote name='Nadie' post='1563222' date='Oct 21 2008, 18.25']Oh, I thought of saying "ripped off" but I decided to be kind. :thumbsup:[/quote]:P

Ashamanic, just briefly...there doesn't seem to be any limit to his power, he doesn't have to focus on the individual the entire time (evidenced by Meredith still being frozen despite the fact he left the room). At the start he seems to have to mime their actions (scene with the broken wine glass), but later he can simply gesture and move them. Also in that scene he was miming with his left arm and she was moving her right arm, which seemed rather odd. When Claire is shot, I wouldn't imagine she dies because it wasn't a head shot or anything, so I don't see why she would be out of his control necessarily simply from being shot. He seemed to need to choose to control or remove control and if he assumed she was dead I don't see why he would intentionally remove control.

[Jaxom 1974]

[quote]No. It reminds me of Watchmen, where Doctor Manhattan's view of the future stops at a certain point full of static, and it's the only thing he can see until he gets past that point. For Mr. African Sir, Parkman was static, and once he got past him, he was able to see beyond that.[/quote]

I got the impression, at first, that since the only paintings seemed to be of Parkman and then Hiro, that the African's powers were merely focused on the individual he was to soon encounter...then I realized there was that painting of Peter and his dad...so I don't know...

As to Claire? Well, there's nothing this show has ever done, even when it was at it's height, that allowed for a decent Claire story. Other than being the good looking teen girl in the Disney-esque demographic, there isn't much to her.

This season has been better, for the most part, with it's various introductions of powers and moving along. No dragging the story a la the Wonderless twins this time about. That being said, for having been seemingly all over the damn map in the early episodes, things seem to be converging to a degree. Why Papa Petrelli wants the African doesn't quite fit yet, and HRG seems to be spinning wheels on the outer perimeter of the main story and Claire's pretty worthless in general, but there seems to be hope to strengthen the show a little more still.

Oh, and the Adam character was one with so much potential that was so very wasted. His apparent death being a finality was very anti-climactic, though I daresay that having Papa steal his immortality to kill him wasn't something that was ever considered by the first generation of heroes. It simply became a means to an end when Papa needed some healin'. (You heard it here first: he didn't shoot himself, Mama tried to take him out.)

[Ashamanic]

[quote name='Weekapaug' post='1563228' date='Oct 21 2008, 18.32']:P

Ashamanic, just briefly...there doesn't seem to be any limit to his power, he doesn't have to focus on the individual the entire time (evidenced by Meredith still being frozen despite the fact he left the room). At the start he seems to have to mime their actions (scene with the broken wine glass), but later he can simply gesture and move them. Also in that scene he was miming with his left arm and she was moving her right arm, which seemed rather odd. When Claire is shot, I wouldn't imagine she dies because it wasn't a head shot or anything, so I don't see why she would be out of his control necessarily simply from being shot. He seemed to need to choose to control or remove control and if he assumed she was dead I don't see why he would intentionally remove control.[/quote]
I suppose, though anything can be rationalised away to make it innerant if someone is truly dedicated to doing so - Here we would say the bullet went through the heart, 'killed' her and he dropped control. The motions were just him being theatrical. Sometimes he likes to put on a show, other times he just uses the control.
Wheter the writers thought of it like that, I don't know.

anyway, how did future Sylar get Isaac and Ted's abilities back? Did they get healed? did losing the abilities make sense in the first place? Perhaps he just realised it was ridiculous to lose them and then they worked again - a bit like how Peter couldn't use Sylar's ability until told about how it works.

[naz]

Forget about Claire. What I hate more is any scene involving her mom. Not her "special" mom, but her "ordinary" mom. Especially when she ran out of the car into a potentially dangerous situation, but made sure she was taking her purse along. Her PURSE!

[McCloskey]

Slightly better this week than last. What a waste for Adam to go down like that but it was pretty cool.


So is Maya dead or just in a coma? I'm hoping shes dead.

[Slurktan]

[quote name='Ran' post='1563113' date='Oct 21 2008, 16.34']Whose power did he grab in 15 seconds or less? ;) Saying it doesn't make it so.

And it's not really like it's generally a _conscious_ power. He grabs it when he grabs it, and then he has to _know_ he's grabbed it, which he generally doesn't know. How often have we seen him do the "whoah" Keeanu Reeves thing when he busts out with yet another power he didn't realize he grabbed along the way?[/quote]

I am unfamiliar with season 1 granted as its been almost two years now. However did he not leech Claire's power from 15 seconds or less of screen time? Regardless I'm pretty sure your second point is invalid as he didn't know she had the healing power but he healed anyways. How long was he on screen with Ted? I'm trying to think of others. How did he take Hiro's power and did he know he had it before it was used?

[Ran]

Uh.

Passive power, meet active power. ;) Totally different. Claire's healing is always working without any conscious effort. Shooting bolts of energy, running real fast, sucking in fear to get strong, leeching powers at will by touch, etc., OTOH, require some sort of conscious action (as we see with Arthur Petrelli -- he doesn't grab powers automatically). I'm also pretty sure he met her for more than 15 seconds.

Peter does usually, [i]eventually[/i], stumble across the fact that he's stolen someone's active power early on in the show. So he accidentally discovers he can read minds, and he accidentally does the Hiro time warp thing (a power which, BTW, I think he got from Future Hiro during their few minutes together on the frozen subway), and then he knows he has them and can figure out how to use them. He knows Ted has nuclear blasts, and so he knows he can do it as well, and thus is able to do it.

To consciously use something at will, which is what you're suggesting Peter would somehow have been able to do with Daphne's and Knox's and Arthur's powers, you have to know you have it. _If_ Peter had grabbed Daphne's, Knox's, and Arthur's powers, he didn't have any chance to realize it until his father started (very painfully) stripping his powers, and I suspect the pain and shock would have done more than enough to prevent Peter from using any ability. Moreover, he didn't know what powers they actually [i]had[/i], except for Knox, and the only person afraid in that room was Peter anyways so I doubt it'd have been useful.

The best thing to note is that Peter didn't use any powers when his father hugged, and then leeched him. Why? Shock and pain. Bringing up his failure to use powers of people he just met, whose powers he didn't know (or were useless in the situation) and may not have grabbed, seems kind of off target.

[Kelli Fury]

[quote name='Ashamanic' post='1563790' date='Oct 22 2008, 10.34']I suppose, though anything can be rationalised away to make it innerant if someone is truly dedicated to doing so - Here we would say the bullet went through the heart, 'killed' her and he dropped control. The motions were just him being theatrical. Sometimes he likes to put on a show, other times he just uses the control.
Wheter the writers thought of it like that, I don't know.

anyway, how did future Sylar get Isaac and Ted's abilities back? Did they get healed? did losing the abilities make sense in the first place? Perhaps he just realised it was ridiculous to lose them and then they worked again - a bit like how Peter couldn't use Sylar's ability until told about how it works.[/quote]
Um, present Sylar has them. He got them back when he gave himself the shot, he just hasn't used them. When he lost those ones, he lost them all and became a regular guy. When he got his powers back, it was all of them (except the one he tried to get when he had the virus, it's not clear whether he has those now or not, but since he must not have had his original power, I'm thinking no).

Heroes- please stop making my bad guy good :cry:

[Jeor]

Well, they've solved a lot of the overpowered problems by thinking up Arthur Petrelli's power, although given the way the writers have established an air of non-permanency around everything - Sylar loses powers, Sylar gets his powers back, Bennett's dead, Bennett's alive, Mohinder's acting silly, Mohinder....oh wait. But I'd be surprised if Peter stays depowered forever, though.

The writers have thought up a way to get rid of some of the problems caused by overpowered characters on the series, but at the expense of building up a super-invincible-Arthur-Petrelli. Unless he suffers from the periodic stupidity of overpowered characters, I don't see how he can be taken down. Looks like Sylar's going to go down even more of a good guy path, since he's probably the only guy who has the potential to match it with old man Petrelli, unless the Haitian becomes 'available' again. That, or the writers will bring in another one of the Company's founders (Mendez etc, who we haven't seen, but who they say they've already cast) who has some superduper power.

Mind you, I'm still stuck for a rationale behind Pinehearst. They want the formula so they can make abilities open to the public, and this is a 'bad future', so they have to be stopped, etc; I get that bit. But what's their actual motivation? Is it just this formula thing - and then why make it available to everyone?

I actually don't mind the series. Gaping plot holes that a truck could drive through and very disjointed, but as long as you try and forget about the big picture, I think you can enjoy the action in each episode.

[Slurktan]

[quote name='Ran' post='1564273' date='Oct 22 2008, 16.49']Uh.

Passive power, meet active power. ;) Totally different. Claire's healing is always working without any conscious effort. Shooting bolts of energy, running real fast, sucking in fear to get strong, leeching powers at will by touch, etc., OTOH, require some sort of conscious action (as we see with Arthur Petrelli -- he doesn't grab powers automatically). I'm also pretty sure he met her for more than 15 seconds.[/quote]

There's our difference. I must have missed an instance where Mr. P touched someone but didn't grab their power. I thought it was an automatic Rogue-like power and so passive like the healing bit.

[Ran]

Uhm, he had kids with Angela, so ... obviously, he does not take people's powers against his will. ;)

[Slurktan]

[quote name='Ran' post='1564808' date='Oct 23 2008, 09.04']Uhm, he had kids with Angela, so ... obviously, he does not take people's powers against his will. ;)[/quote]

Couple things there:

1. You are assuming his power is natural in origin.
2. You are assuming the powers he steals don't come back. Using the Rogue example, the other person gets their power back after a time if its only a quick hug. I'd think it would be far more likely that this will be the case unless you think they are going to write Peter as having no powers forever. I don't.

EDIT: As for Adam, I'm not convinced that stealing his power made him crumble. That doesn't even make sense in Heroes's retarded logic. It would be far more likely that Mr. P stole his healing power, then burned him when he couldn't regenerate.

[Ser Paladin]

[quote name='Slurktan' post='1565013' date='Oct 23 2008, 12.31']As for Adam, I'm not convinced that stealing his power made him crumble. That doesn't even make sense in Heroes's retarded logic. It would be far more likely that Mr. P stole his healing power, then burned him when he couldn't regenerate.[/quote]
If he would have died at, say 80 years old, and been mouldering in the ground for 320 years, and the only thing stopping that was his powers... then stealing his power would produce that "dust to dust" effect.

[Slurktan]

[quote name='Ser Paladin' post='1565079' date='Oct 23 2008, 13.21']If he would have died at, say 80 years old, and been mouldering in the ground for 320 years, and the only thing stopping that was his powers... then stealing his power would produce that "dust to dust" effect.[/quote]

Yeah which is why I don't think the stealing of power is what killed him. Who knows though, I may for once be overestimating the abilities of the Heroes writers. That's probably more likely.

[Ran]

Slurktan,

[quote]1. You are assuming his power is natural in origin.[/quote]

How do you mean? He was disappointed that Nathan did not inherit powers from him, so clearly, he was a powered individual. He's one of the Company founders, and as far as I know, those are all evolved humans as well.

[quote]2. You are assuming the powers he steals don't come back..[/quote]

Well, there's also the fact that he was touching his son in that hug for a bit, then told him sorry it has to come to this, and then he starts grabbing his mojo. It's clearly a power that he turns off and on. But wait until the next episode or two, and I think we'll get that sorted out one way or another.

[alguien]

[quote name='Slurktan' post='1565013' date='Oct 23 2008, 11.31']EDIT: As for Adam, I'm not convinced that stealing his power made him crumble. That doesn't even make sense in Heroes's retarded logic. It would be far more likely that Mr. P stole his healing power, then burned him when he couldn't regenerate.[/quote]

Why? His powers kept him eternally young, then he lost the power and aged 320 years in an instant. Granted, the physics isn't consistent, but its well within the HEROES scope of logic.