HEROES

[ogbebaba]

[quote name='Ran' post='1565582' date='Oct 23 2008, 19.02']Slurktan,



I'm going to guess you are joking, yes? Nothing says that Papa Petrelli's powers work exactly like Rogue's, or that Adam's power worked like Wolverine's, etc. Does Parasite's power over in the DCU work using the same sort of mechanisms as Rogues? Probably not. Different universes, different comic book sciences. ;)[/quote]

well when i saw that seen i thoght ok adams ages cought up with him... thats where they where going with that.

but why didn't peter absorb papa petrelli's power and has he ever met the hatchen

[Ser Paladin]

[quote name='ogbebaba' post='1565607' date='Oct 23 2008, 20.33']well when i saw that seen i thoght ok adams ages cought up with him... thats where they where going with that.[/quote]
I think most people got what the show was going for there. Which is the goal.


[quote name='ogbebaba' post='1565607' date='Oct 23 2008, 20.33']but why didn't peter absorb papa petrelli's power and has he ever met the hatchen[/quote]
I'm sure he did steal dad's power. But before he had a chance to use it, dad stole it back.

And Peter [b]has [/b]encountered the haitian, most recently in that alley in the future with Claire and future Peter. The haitian's power is a persistent field effect. Peter's power, if it works at all like Sylar's, involves some sort of chemical or biological change in the brain.

The haitian's power turned Peter's power off before any reaction could take place. Comic book science 101.

[Sir Thursday]

Is it necessarily the case that what killed Adam was his regenerative powers being removed? Papa Petrelli could have taken them, and then used some other power at his disposal to turn him into dust...


Sir Thursday

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

[quote name='Ser Paladin' post='1565385' date='Oct 23 2008, 15.42']If, however, you just lifted the car over your head, and your super strength disappears, the car won't just float there over your head, where you left it.

It will fall on top of you.[/quote]

Because gravity acts upon it.

What is the force that causes the rapid accelerated aging of the cells?

[Jaxom 1974]

[quote name='14th Dragon' post='1565383' date='Oct 23 2008, 15.41']More importantly, why if Petrelli the eldar had the abilty to take powers, why only now did he grab Adam's power. Would that not have been far more effective then locking him up back in the 70's?[/quote]

As I think I mentioned up thread, the idea of stealing his powers with the intent of letting the aging process catch up to him, thus ending his existance, probably wasn't a thought to the original group back in the 70s. Then they were still heroes with heroic ideals (one assumes). Then, whatever caused Papa Petrelli to end in that vegatative state (I'm betting Mama tried to stop him from doing something rather than it being a suicide attempt) also prevented him from getting to Adam as a solution to his problem...

[alguien]

[quote name='Slurktan' post='1565466' date='Oct 23 2008, 16.49']Ran, small problem with your Comic book science mantra. It doesn't work that way in comics. When Rogue touches Wolverine and steals his regenerative power he doesn't either die or immediately turn into an old man despite being over 100 years of age. You need to turn in your geek card. I'm sorry.[/quote]

Actually you should turn in yours. "Comic book science" means that it works how the writer wants it to. Since these are different universes, Rogue's powers need not apply.

[Bolton Bastard]

Finally butting into the conversation. Yeah, I enjoy Heroes, it ain't amazing works of art but it's a decent waste of an hour every monday.

When they first reintroduced Adam in Season 2 Mrs. Petrelli states that his cells continually die and regenerate causing the lack of aging. Apparently when his power has been taken his cells just died again without regeneration.

[14th Dragon]

[quote name='Jaxom 1974' post='1565760' date='Oct 23 2008, 23.59']As I think I mentioned up thread, the idea of stealing his powers with the intent of letting the aging process catch up to him, thus ending his existance, probably wasn't a thought to the original group back in the 70s. Then they were still heroes with heroic ideals (one assumes). Then, whatever caused Papa Petrelli to end in that vegatative state (I'm betting Mama tried to stop him from doing something rather than it being a suicide attempt) also prevented him from getting to Adam as a solution to his problem...[/quote]

So working on a biological weapon, hey no biggie, get rid of a villian looking to wipe out the world, well that is just to much.

Even if it was not something that would kill someone, back when they were idealistic, why not have the Petrelli senior remove the powers of the dangerous individulas? Or maybe they did and that drove him nuts, but who the heck knows. It just seems like his power was introduced just to nerf back Peter and maybe Sylar. It is like the introduction of Kryptonite.

[quote name='Nadie' post='1565785' date='Oct 24 2008, 00.30']Actually you should turn in yours. "Comic book science" means that it works how the writer wants it to. Since these are different universes, Rogue's powers need not apply.[/quote]

Yeah, but even comic book science has to stay consitent throughout the series. The laws of phyics and biology are completely different, but there are consistent rules.

[mcbigski]

[quote name='Sir Thursday' post='1565700' date='Oct 23 2008, 22.11']Is it necessarily the case that what killed Adam was his regenerative powers being removed? Papa Petrelli could have taken them, and then used some other power at his disposal to turn him into dust...


Sir Thursday[/quote]

Or maybe Arthur used another power to heal Peter, but let Adam die.

[Daemrion]

In any case, I'm sure the writers can come up with another 'power' to reverse what happened to Adam. :P

Best to actually look at whether or not David Anders got fired or asked to be let go from his contract to determine Adam's death.

On that note, I'm pretty sad about it cos' at least he was a cool villain.

[Proper Dave]

If Linderman could heal people, could he return the powers of those Arthur Petrelli had stolen from? It might explain both Maurie Parkman's fear (it's apparently a very painful process) and how Arthur already has Maurie's power.

I also wondered if Adam had ever been in the Haitian's presence, and, if so, why he didn't die. But we've seen Elle use her powers in the Haitian's presence before, whilst the Haitian was still blocking Peter's powers, so it seems usually it's just an area effect, but he can exclude someone from it if he's aware of them and chooses to do so.

[AverageGuy]

[quote name='Jaxom 1974' post='1563784' date='Oct 22 2008, 10.31'](You heard it here first: he didn't shoot himself, Mama tried to take him out.)[/quote]
Heh. I guessed that last season. Though my scenario was very GUCT, with Mama Petrelli playing the part of Littlefinger, so of course she had to be part of everything. It's largely been shot to hell now. And it plausibly explained so many elements, too!

[Jon AS]

[quote name='AverageGuy']And it plausibly explained so many elements, too![/quote]

A pity you're not on the Heroes writing staff, then.

[AverageGuy]

Nah. It still had its issues. For all the bitching I've done about this show recently, I'm not trying to say I could do better. Just saying I had a theory that worked back in season 2, but it required Mama Petrelli to be involved in [i]everything.[/i] Or near enough.

[Calibandar]

Scifi Wire is staging a Heroes intervention. It's fun and useful advise.

[url="http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/index.php?id=61351"]http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/index.php?id=61351[/url]

For those who don't want to link I'll repost:
---------------------------------

When a loved one is in trouble, we can gather all the friends and family around to stage an intervention on their behalf. Help them kick drugs, booze, karaoke, whatever is destroying them. Well, what if millions of viewers love a show, and we just need to get the creators' attention to nip some problems in the bud? Our shame-free correspondent Fred Topel steps up with his own intervention for the producers of NBC's Heroes, which airs Mondays at 9 p.m. ET/PT.

Tim, Jeph, Jesse, et al.: We have brought you together because we love you. Heroes is our dream of a superhero show. The show has top-notch effects, and the writing and acting deliver the most believable world of everyday people doing extraordinary things.

But we feel that you're losing your way. So we are staging this intervention to help you find it again. Here are some suggestions, offered with love.

--No more trips to/from the future. The first time Future Hiro came back to tell Peter to save the cheerleader was awesome. It opened up possibilities and major evolutions for the series. The "what if?" of "Five Years Gone" was cool, too, just having fun with possibilities. Now you've overdone it. Peter goes to the future and loses his girlfriend there. Future Claire is all dark and brooding. Hiro visits the future and sees himself fight Ando. It's all variations on the same thing: future=apocalyptic. You've used up all your future trips. It's time to tell stories in the present.

--No more end of the world. Not every story needs to have cataclysmic consequences. So far, all three volumes have dealt with the end of the world. It would have been four if you'd gotten to do your virus story last year! If it's always the end of the world, then the end of the world is just that thing they always save us from. Give us some subtler stories with only dire moral consequences, or just some fun little adventures.

--Tell everyday stories. Part of the fun of Heroes is that it's about extraordinary occurrences in everyday lives. That's what made season one so great. Show how these characters use their powers in everyday situations. Maybe have Micah fight the economic crisis with his influence over ATMs. Or show Parkman on a date! Have some fun exploring the mundane. That's what 22 episodes are for.

--Stop pretending to kill people. You clearly don't want to lose characters or actors, since you always come up with ways to bring them back. Nathan's been revived twice already, and now Nikki has a twin? Listen, it's OK. We don't need you to pretend that there's danger for even the A-list series regulars. We're watching a show about superheroes because we want to see people who can always survive and escape danger. So do away with the fake threat of mortality. Just have fun with the cliffhangers, like the movie serials of yore. We'll keep coming back.

--Put a moratorium on new characters. Daphne the Speedster is great, but every time you introduce someone new, you take time away from characters who are already underserviced. Already Maya doesn't have anything to do but show up after Mohinder goes on a rampage. We're still waiting for more on Elle, and we understand there's a scheduling issue with Kristen Bell there, but you've still got Micah and Molly just being neglected. Relax, you're going to be around for many, many years. Sure, there are new cool superpowers, but just file them away in your notes for now. Save them for season six or seven, when contract negotiations force you to recast, like ER.

--Less talk, more twist. The season premiere started off with so many bold moves, like Ando killing Hiro and Claire learning she's immortal. Then Hiro kept looking at Ando funny and hurting his feelings. Claire has had to keep convincing her parents she's immortal. It's fine to tease things, building up to a reveal, but once it's out there, it's time to move on. Hiro finally took some drastic action, though seeing the above entry on character deaths, we're skeptical about even that. All his banter with Ando was just anticlimax. If there are worse fates for Claire than death, let's face 'em. By season three, nobody expects HRG to successfully convince Claire that he knows what's best for her protection. Frankly, HRG should know better by now, too. We like the twists. Change is good. Go with it.

No more volumes. Face it, it didn't work. It was a novel idea to divide seasons into shorter arcs, but it's not making the stories more exciting. It may even be hurting you to force things into this structure. We've already bought in to the real-world superheroes. It doesn't have to be exactly like a comic book. The goal of volumes is to have more than one big finale a year, but we're not asking for that. We just want to live with these characters week to week. No one's ever happy with a finale anyway.

--Try stand-alone episodes. Maybe the heroes can face smaller threats on a slow week, and everything can wrap up by 10 p.m. Nathan can get a cat out of a tree, or Parkman can work a hostage negotiation by reading minds. Sure, there are questions everybody wants answered, but it doesn't have to be the only thing going on. You've created a world with so many possibilities; we want to see the simple tasks as well as the major adventures.

[Werthead]

I was going to drop the show if this episode hadn't delivered. It wasn't perfect but it did just about drag things back on course. We had Ando and Hiro actually having a funny buddy moment together, like back in the good old days, and Peter getting nerfed is way, way overdue. The Claire stuff was atrocious, but it was good seeing Tracy save the day (if not completely). I think I prefer her to Nikki/Jessica on the grounds she isn't in a permanant state of mental collapse. I'm warming to Daphne and an episode with Mama Petrelli expositioning was a nice change.

Still all to play for, but it didn't kill my interest in the show stone dead, which is what I was expecting.

One question I may have missed being asked in the thread, but, do we think the title was a nod to GRRM or back to the Dylan Thomas original? ;)

[Bolton Bastard]

[quote name='Calibandar' post='1567024' date='Oct 25 2008, 13.30']--Try stand-alone episodes. Maybe the heroes can face smaller threats on a slow week, and everything can wrap up by 10 p.m. Nathan can get a cat out of a tree, or Parkman can work a hostage negotiation by reading minds. Sure, there are questions everybody wants answered, but it doesn't have to be the only thing going on. You've created a world with so many possibilities; we want to see the simple tasks as well as the major adventures.[/quote]

I generally agreed with you. But if they ever have an episode were Nathan takes screen time to save a cat from a tree I'm turning off the series and never turning it on again. It may have worked for The Incredibles, but not heroes

[Ran]

I thought this was a pretty good episode, to be honest. Possibly just because Kristin Bell elevates the show whenever she's on, but I think that it's a pretty well screwed up dysfunctional family they've got going with the Petrellis.

So, Arthur was reading Nietzsche; big surprise. And he seems to confirm that Sylar really is his son. Huh. I kind of buy his story regarding what Angela did when she dreamed of what a monster he'd become, but ... jury's out I suppose.

I don't mind how easily Sylar is manipulated. It's rather consistent with his characterization. His saving Peter was interesting, but I liked the fact that Arthur makes it plain he knows, and is letting it slide. I'm also digging his manipulation of Matt, although on the other hand it seems to me he's trusting quite a lot that Matt won't read Daphne's mind. He's right that Matt won't do so, I suppose, but it seems to me that if you're a supervillain, you tend to think the worst of everyone...

Oh, and going back to Elle, is her power on the fritz because she's a synthetic? Or is it something to do with second generation evolved humans?

Finally, I suppose some folks will be happy that it looks like Maya is more or less out of the picture. For now, anyways, until Mohinder's bad side makes him obsessed about getting her back. I'm guessing that when Arthur dies, everyone's powers come back, of course. And it's only a matter of time before he dies, though it could take until the end of the second volume.

All in all, I thought it was pretty decent. The worst bit was Claire's stupidity, as usual -- "Don't ask dad about this company", "Hey, maybe what happened to me when Sylar OPENED UP MY SKULL is exactly like what's happening to you," and so on. So it goes.

[Krafus]

I'm glad we're apparently rid of Maya, a constant reminder of the piss-poor second season.

Sylar does seem easily manipulated, although the way he apparently saved Peter makes up for it. Maybe Sylar's decided he'll stay next to dear old dad so that should/when he get a definitive reason to kill Arthur, he'll be right in position to do it. I wonder why Arthur isn't showing signs of the hunger?

[quote]Oh, and going back to Elle, is her power on the fritz because she's a synthetic? Or is it something to do with second generation evolved humans?[/quote]

No idea. Back in first season, Peter also had trouble controlling his powers at first, but his problem seemed due to inexperience and power overload. Elle, OTOH, has had her power for a long time.

[AverageGuy]

[quote name='Ser Paladin' post='1565697' date='Oct 23 2008, 21.08']And Peter [b]has [/b]encountered the haitian, most recently in that alley in the future with Claire and future Peter. The haitian's power is a persistent field effect. Peter's power, if it works at all like Sylar's, involves some sort of chemical or biological change in the brain.

The haitian's power turned Peter's power off before any reaction could take place. Comic book science 101.[/quote]
Which might say something about synthetics. Nathan was standing right in front of the Haitian back in Season 1 and was still able to fly away.

...or that's just another inconsistency.