HEROES

[fireface]

Maybe he is the father??

Nah just kidding, if the whole lame 'Sylar is a Petrelli' is true, ugh, then he would be Claires uncle.

Man that scene with Sylar making pamcakes was too much for my fangirl heart.

[Sir Thursday]

[quote name='awesome possum' post='1555146' date='Oct 14 2008, 16.45']Since Angela's power is prophetic dreams, he could have had Parkman's dad insert him into the dream. It seems like his power might be similar to Eve(?)'s in season 1, the speaking power. The way he told her not to move or to stay still or whatever made me think that at least.[/quote]


What he did to Angela reminds me of Nathan's wife from Season 1. If Papa Petrelli has the power to paralyse people, could he have caused her to be the way she was? Or did they give a backstory to her condition? I can't remember.


Sir Thursday

[Jon AS]

Nathan's wife was hurt in that car accident, Linderman later healed her.

[VarysTheSpider]

For all it's flaws, I do think it's still enjoyable from an escapist standpoint, it's just a shame it's fallen so far from the heights of series 1. I think they should have just made the plunge after the first series and skipped the story ahead a few years where the situation had changed. It feels a bit like they've just been running around in circles since the end of series 1.

That vortex guy was kind of cool. While I was watching I entertained an amusing picture of someone somewhere else who has the power to receive all the crap that guy sends through it. A bit sad when your daydreams are more entertaining than parts of the show, but never mind.

[Werthead]

What the fuck just happened in that episode? The characters, particularly Hiro but also Sylar and, screw it, everyone, just started acting totally randomly for absolutely no reason.

Characters are showing up with no defining characteristics other than their uberness, storyline elements don't make much sense, and the writers have got absolutely no clue how to handle the show's timeline. Tim Kring has obviousy been reading Erikson during the mid-season break and [i]must be stopped[/i].

[quote name='Ran' post='1554799' date='Oct 14 2008, 10.43']The cast is too big, which means the story is getting sliced up into too many little pieces. Every time you introduce someone new, you've got to spend time establishing them, and given the half-assed Byzantine story they've got going, this is deadly.[/quote]

Admit it, (half-assed bit aside) this is a copy-paste from one of the harsher AFFC Amazon reviews, right? ;)

[quote name='Cuellar' post='1555388' date='Oct 14 2008, 19.05']Invincible heros. X-men does the best job of having their core heros NOT be invincible. No one is completely invincible, and everyone has PHSYICAL as well as psychological flaws. The fucking doctor is in a wheelchair for Christ's sake. With Peter, future Peter, Syler, Adam Monroe, and Clair all virtually invincible, it becomes really gay.[/quote]

1) Seriously, the second 'e' isn't optional. It's in title of the show and at the top of the thread.

2) The use of 'gay' in that negative context is fine if you're Eric Cartman, but probably not that great an idea in a community with a fairly large number of people of that persuasion. 'Crap' or 'lame' is a perfectly acceptable and non-offensive word in these circumstances.

[AverageGuy]

[quote name='Cuellar' post='1555388' date='Oct 14 2008, 13.05']2) Invincible heros. X-men does the best job of having their core heros NOT be invincible. No one is completely invincible, and everyone has PHSYICAL as well as psychological flaws. The fucking doctor is in a wheelchair for Christ's sake.[/quote]
[url="http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/77/265244-5762-wolverine_super.jpg"]Wolverine.[/url] And the professor's been in and out of that wheelchair so often it's not funny

That is one of the flaws of comics. If characters aren't actually invincible, the plot twists in weird ways to make them so, or at least undo any of the damage they did suffer. Unfortunately, it looks like that's the way Heroes is going, too. Maybe it's impossible not to when you're writing a certain level of superscience.

[Myrddin]

[quote name='AverageGuy' post='1555906' date='Oct 14 2008, 19.31'][url="http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/77/265244-5762-wolverine_super.jpg"]Wolverine.[/url] And the professor's been in and out of that wheelchair so often it's not funny[/quote]
Wow. Cool painting. How did Wolvie pull out of that one? Because I know he did. Marvel would never kill off their golden feral boy. Let me guess. Dream?

The main difference between X-Men continuity and Heroes is the comic need to reboot/retcon every few years. Heroes seems to do it every episode.

And I stand by my statement last fall: Heroes is being written in the same fashion as it was in season 1. The only difference is now we have no faith in the outcome, so the little multiplying mysteries annoy rather than build.

[EHK for Darwin]

[quote name='Myrddin' post='1556374' date='Oct 15 2008, 08.56']And I stand by my statement last fall: Heroes is being written in the same fashion as it was in season 1. The only difference is now we have no faith in the outcome, so the little multiplying mysteries annoy rather than build.[/quote]

Except they were starting with a blank slate and didn't have to worry about inconsistencies yet. They had fewer characters, fewer bad characters, and fewer extraneous storylines so the pacing inevitably was much better. They had a clear goal from the start that didn't feel played out yet. The episodes all progressed towards that goal and never dragged near as much as later seasons. (there were exceptions of course. The Niki n Family crap dragged and sucked. Hiro wandered a bit)

Also, they had mystery. Sure there's an element of that in both seasons since, but not to the same degree. In season 1 we knew nothing about the company, so they very much seemed capable of anything. The more we find out about them, the less likely it seems that they'd be capable of anything they supposedly did. We knew very little about the entire Heroes world, how many they are, what they've done, etc. The more we find out, the more it seems virtually impossible for their existence not to be public knowledge.

The several characters weren't virtually invincible yet. Which meant you could write them into danger without having all the viewers demanding 'hey, why didn't he just do this, this, or that?'

I'd contend that the writing is substantially worse. The new characters, especially the season 2 ones, were horrible compared to most of the originals. Most of the side stories (season 2) were uninteresting and dragged on forever. And plots were driven by astounding coincidences and selective character stupidity more than anything else.

But the fact that they've written themselves into a corner on so many points is a problem that makes scribing the later seasons much more difficult than the first. Since they've overpowered several characters, they need to be more creative about the dilemma's they force them into...but they're not that creative. Their constant time travel, growing conspiracies, and more intricate plots demand a higher level of internal consistency, but they don't seem to care and just aren't that careful.

Really, the most frustrating part is that many of the illogical scenarios, reactions, and inconsistencies could be fixed with a bit of brainstorming. If your means of getting this character from point A to B doesn't make sense, its usually not that hard to find a way that does. Hell, half the time when I'm watching an episode I can figure out better ways to set up and resolve their storylines for them. I'm sure they have script doctors, but they need better ones.

And what they need to realize is that this is a geek show. Geeks care about logic and consistency. They are gonna ask why the characters did this or didn't do that. And they need to be cognizant of that if they want to retain their main viewing demographic.

[Ran]

Not at all a dream. He just healed up. :P It was dumb.

[Myrddin]

[quote name='Ran' post='1556417' date='Oct 15 2008, 08.47']Not at all a dream. He just healed up. :P It was dumb.[/quote]
Logan regenerated back from (adamantium laced) bone? heh Dumb is an understatement.

So, if they want to kill Logan, they need to have Magneto pull the metal from his bones again (through his pores) and THEN incinerate him. :lol: Unless there is one skin cell that flaked off before stepping into the flame. Otherwise he'd regenerate from that.

/ends thread jack

[awesome possum]

Methinks we all need to stop treating Heroes like an intelligent show and accept it for what it is: mindless popcorn television. Just sit back and let your baser instincits take charge. So, instead of going, "well that doesn't make much sense" you go "oooh, s/he pretty" or "oooh, thing go boom."

It's your duty as Americans- no, as citizens of the world to not question what the shiny box provides.

[Week]

[quote name='awesome possum' post='1556533' date='Oct 15 2008, 12.21']Methinks we all need to stop treating Heroes like an intelligent show and accept it for what it is: mindless popcorn television. Just sit back and let your baser instincits take charge. So, instead of going, "well that doesn't make much sense" you go "oooh, s/he pretty" or "oooh, thing go boom."

It's your duty as Americans- no, as citizens of the world to not question what the shiny box provides.[/quote]
My brain in off-mode still had a hard time stomaching that last episode.

Things my brain actually enjoyed in off-mode recently:
Transformers
the Underworld movies
the Resident Evil movies
House
etc.

[smegma]

The problem is expectations. Most people here watched the first season and the mystery and pacing kept us all glued to the tv, so we were able to ignore the simplicity of certain characters and it didn't SEEM like a network show as much. Now that all those things are gone, the issues are much more glaring. But my 13 year old LOVES the show and it's one of the only things on tv that we can watch together. It's on NBC and so they are trying to appeal to as many people as possible (not just the geeks of the world) because for the most part, network television sucks balls. I just don't have very high expectations for anything that isn't on HBO or in some cases FX.

[Blaine]

[quote name='awesome possum' post='1556533' date='Oct 15 2008, 11.21']It's your duty as Americans- no, as citizens of the world to not question what the shiny box provides.[/quote]
That's so awesome, I'm sigging it.

[grozeng]

[quote name='awesome possum' post='1556533' date='Oct 15 2008, 12.21']Methinks we all need to stop treating Heroes like an intelligent show and accept it for what it is: mindless popcorn television. Just sit back and let your baser instincits take charge. So, instead of going, "well that doesn't make much sense" you go "oooh, s/he pretty" or "oooh, thing go boom."[/quote]

I was just about to post the same thing. I don't think the show has changed much from Season 1 in quality. It's just lost the "newness" factor. I still enjoy it.

[quote name='Week']My brain in off-mode still had a hard time stomaching that last episode.

Things my brain actually enjoyed in off-mode recently:
Transformers[/quote]

I was also going to post this. I think the last episode was pretty bad (and I have liked this season and remained fairly positive throughout last season).

I finally saw Transformers a couple of weeks ago and it lost me when the Decepticon was yelling at Shia "Are you Ladysman270". I almost turned it off there.

[14th Dragon]

[quote name='awesome possum' post='1556533' date='Oct 15 2008, 12.21']Methinks we all need to stop treating Heroes like an intelligent show and accept it for what it is: mindless popcorn television. Just sit back and let your baser instincits take charge. So, instead of going, "well that doesn't make much sense" you go "oooh, s/he pretty" or "oooh, thing go boom."

It's your duty as Americans- no, as citizens of the world to not question what the shiny box provides.[/quote]

Come-on. I am not expecting Shakespear here. I am talking about just being internally consitent. Maybe some sort of coherent plot. It does not have to be great, but just exist. Like some sort of basic realities. Like the scientist is not completely stupid. The hero actually does something heroic. Dead peoples stay dead.

[Werthead]

All that said and done, [url="http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/df8d1f5b7d"]this[/url] was pretty funny though.

Oh yeah, and I've been watching this series and enjoying it as a piece of stupid entertainment, but the latest episode went into stupid-negativity, when watching it actually became an intellectually draining experience. I think if more than three or four episodes of [b]Heroes[/b] in a row were this bad, it would force the viewer to go full retard.

What makes me hate myself is that I'll probably keep watching in the forlorn hope it gets better. But if Tim Kring ever rips into [b]Lost[/b] again, Lindelof and Cuse could beat him to death with hockey sticks and no judge in the land would say a word against it.

[Jaxom 1974]

Can someone please explain to me exactly what the "mystery" was in the first season? Who/What blows up New York? Is that it? That wasn't much of a mystery though. Maybe I just don't remember anything else about it.

[smegma]

I meant mystery in the atmospheric sense, not in the literal crime mystery. That we didn't know what to expect out of this series at all, how the story was arcing, what the involvement was...basically the foundation took a long time to lay out and they would do it in a nicely paced manner so each episode gave us a dose of something new. It's like having sex with someone for the first time....you don't know what you are going to get as you undress each other. Unfortunately the 2nd and 3rd seasons have shown us what a small penis this show really has.

[RedEyedGhost]

[quote name='smegma' post='1557635' date='Oct 15 2008, 20.39']I meant mystery in the atmospheric sense, not in the literal crime mystery. That we didn't know what to expect out of this series at all, how the story was arcing, what the involvement was...basically the foundation took a long time to lay out and they would do it in a nicely paced manner so each episode gave us a dose of something new. It's like having sex with someone for the first time....you don't know what you are going to get as you undress each other. [b]Unfortunately the 2nd and 3rd seasons have shown us what a small penis this show really has.[/b][/quote]

:rofl: