So I just had the shit beaten out of me

[Guest Raidne]

In other words, don't call me a trigger happy moron because I'm a trigger happy moron.

Well said.

[peterbound]

Why make life simple? I mean, sure you could walk away with just a concussion, or you could walk away with a life-altering case of posttraumatic stress disorder and all-consuming anxiety about the legal complexities involved in self-defense law. And then, after all that, the possibility of 5-7 years in prison.

Peter, I support your general right to carry a gun, but if you think this would have been a good time to use it, I can't say that I think it's wise in your particular case.

Nothing here that a nice can of pepper spray wouldn't have taken care of, if you want to go that route, anyway.

ETA: However, I'm sure that an "I just shot someone" thread would probably already be on its 5th page by now.

As you are schooled in the law, i will defer to your expertise. But this situation seems extreme to me. I don't want to derail this thread into a 'gun rights' debate. So i'll let it go.

[peterbound]

In other words, don't call me a trigger happy moron because I'm a trigger happy moron.

Well said.

Again, gonna let it go. If you want to start that thread i'll be more than happy to debate it with you.

Ski, go to the hospital.

[Shryke]

How do you not get into a fight with someone who corners you in a dead-end and attacks you?

He had a phone. Call the cops if someone is chasing you. That's what they are for!

Also, well on the phone, ask for directions to the nearest police station. Stop your car there.

Unless these guys physically rammed his car off the road, that's easily doable.

I mean, shit people, this is common fucking sense.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

Why make life simple? I mean, sure you could walk away with just a concussion, or you could walk away with a life-altering case of posttraumatic stress disorder and all-consuming anxiety about the legal complexities involved in self-defense law. And then, after all that, the possibility of 5-7 years in prison.

If you were guaranteed nothing worse than a concussion, I think that's a good argument. The truth is that people sometimes die in fights from blunt head trauma, and waiting to see if someone is going to whip out a knife or whatever may not give you enough time to respond.

I'm with peter -- display the weapon to discourage the attackers, but if they keep coming, I should not be the guy rolling the dice and hoping I only get a headache out of it. No guilt. It's just "die, motherfuckers, die" and full auto as far as I'm concerned. And I just noticed we don't have any emoticons bearing firearms. But we do have a hammer and sickle waving commie!

Okay, no full auto. But no guilt at plugging them if they keep coming.

[Aemon Stark]

I think there is a doc or two on the board, but as a medic, i can tell you that no; bleeding from the ear is not normal. Actually is a sign of pretty serious head trauma.

Well... maybe. Areas like the scalp will bleed profusely with superficial wounds, and the area of the skull behind one's ear is thicker than almost anywhere else. Nevertheless, people rightly go to emergency for less, and it's the right thing to do for any kind of head trauma.

Again, i advise going to the ER. Have a loved one drive you.

This! Now!

[Guest Raidne]

If ski says it offends him, I'll take it elsewhere. I'm also a gun rights advocate, so I doubt we're going to get overly nasty with each other. My friend was held up with a sawed off shotgun and made to lay on the ground. In the end, the guy just robbed him and left.

So, in actuality, another gun would have made things worse. OTOH, if he had shot the guy, he would have been justified under the law. If the other person is actually brandishing a weapon, you're in good shape. But you can't go around shooting everyone that punches you in the face. You're going to have to make an argument that you were in reasonable fear for your life and the life of others, and hope you draw a good jury that agrees with you, because it's going to be up them. Because you're going to get charged, have to post bail, and all that garbage.

My two cents. And I'm not commenting on whether it's right or wrong - people who act like those jerks probably should get what's coming to them, but they're probably not worth the hassle I just described.

And really, I mean it, do not discount the impact on your life of having taken another life. Your subconscious will be against you here - you will relieve it in nightmares. You will react in ways you cannot predict. People react badly to having killed another person no matter how justified it was. It's trauma, and it takes a serious mental toll. And so you have to think about whether that's worth it, also.

[WhiteHaven]

The fuck. I think I'll never, ever visit the States again. Too many maniacs with too many weapons.

ETA: Just to clarify. I am not against the Second Amendment, but I think it's weird if people want to use their gun in a fucking fist fight. It's a god damn fist fight. You can run the fuck away. Or, you know, never start one. Use your guns for something meaningful.

[peterbound]

Well... maybe. Areas like the scalp will bleed profusely with superficial wounds, and the area of the skull behind one's ear is thicker than almost anywhere else. Nevertheless, people rightly go to emergency for less, and it's the right thing to do for any kind of head trauma.

This! Now!

Rgr,

But for the sake of this conversation, with no history, nor being there (checking for late battle signs, Halo effect, ect.), I assumed head trauma. Not my job to diagnose though.. that's yours. :)

[Guest Raidne]

I'm thinking of this time where me, my friend, and our two boyfriends (now husbands) were walking out of a club, and we told these two guys coming up that it was closed, because it was. They got all pissed off and were like "F you, it's closed" or something stupid like that, and took a swing at my friend's husband. Who, you know, hit them back. Now, I had been wearing these four inch stacked heel mary janes, and my feet were killing me, so my husband was carrying them. So takes a look at them in his hand, shrugs, and jumps into the fray. That had to hurt.

So anyway, eventually my husband and my friend's husband both look at each other and realize they're on the outside of the fight and these guys are now hitting each other. So we all walk off. About half a mile up the street we hear the sirens pull up.

Funny stuff. But under the law, that guy could have made a case for shooting my husband, as he was brandishing my shoes as a weapon. That would have been a much less funny ending to the story.

You know how they say don't bring a knife to a gun fight? Well that goes both ways - you're an ass if you bring a gun to a fistfight, also.

[slim da reaper]

Peter will you overreact to every situation by brandishing a weapon? You've just escalated a situation into a whole new realm, you are responsible for that, get some courage not some damn weapon. That gun is the last resort, the very last.

[alguien]

Or, you know, don't get into a fist fight with a bunch of guys in another car?

Whatever, Canada. Go play nice-nice at Tim Horton's, and leave the ass-kicking to us, hey? ;)

ETA: for those talking shit about the gun thing, you've seen Swingers, right? You're sounding like that asshole in their group of friends. Talk about escalating a situation...

[S John]

Certainly there is a fine line between where you are a dick / maniac for inappropriate use / brandishing of a firearm. As with all things, it depends on the situation. If you got into a fight outside of a bar, chances are, you don't need a gun. And if you're out drinking you probably shouldn't be carrying one anyway. If you pull a gun in a situation that will almost certainly amount to nothing but some fisticuffs (or of someone running away from said fisticuffs) then that's a bit of overkill, imo. Chances are its just some idiots being drunk, and nothing that anyone needs to be shot over. And I think thats the case with the vast majority of everyday conflicts, a gun would only serve to escalate unnecessarily.

However, were I in a situation where strange people were following me, without any clear explanation as to why they were trying to 'get' me, then they get out looking all sinister and stuff. I dunno, I wouldn't have much of a problem with someone brandishing a firearm in that situation.

If I spilled a drink on a guy and he comes up swinging, ok fine, I see what happened there... this sucks, but it won't be the end of me. Guys I don't know corner me in a dead end alley for unknown purposes? I dunno, seems like one of those situations one would envision if they were daydreaming about buying a gun.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

The fuck. I think I'll never, ever visit the States again. Too many maniacs with too many weapons.

Or too many people who no longer follow the rules for a traditional "fist-fight".

The problem with referring to something as "just a fist-fight" is that is an after the fact description. We're not talking about two kids squaring off in a schoolyard. In a real fight, there is always a risk that the other guy has a knife that he'll use. Or that even if no traditional weapons are used, a kick to the head for the guy that is on the ground can end more than just a fight. Multiply that risk when multiple parties are involved.

A good friend of mine was killed the summer after high school graduation while working as a bouncer. Jumped by a bunch of guys who smashed his head against a stoop. The brother of a former girlfriend is in a wheelchair and has mental disabilities because some guy banged him around in a Denny's. A local lawyer here is paralyzed for life because he was jumped while out running and the guy rammed his head into a wall.

In this scenario, the posters' group tried to flee but were tailed and cornered in a lot. There are plenty of times when that type of situation ends up with someone getting severely injured or worse. I had a few "fist-rights" when I was younger, but pretty much in relatively controlled environments. But I got involved in one outside a club in DC when one kid got jumped by a bunch of others that didn't go so nicely. You just don't know what's going to happen until after it is over. Bar fights don't always go like in the movies where there's just a busted nose and drinks all around afterwards. And if you don't want to fight, but the other party or parties isn't willing to let it go, why should you run the real risk that this one won't turn out to be "just" a fight?

I'm not saying that simply opening up with a weapon is justified. But there is nothing wrong is using one to discourage whomever it is from putting you in a situation where your health is in their hands.

[Guest Raidne]

So, Ski? I'm assuming you're no longer posting because you went to the hospital?

[ljkeane]

I'm not saying that simply opening up with a weapon is justified. But there is nothing wrong is using one to discourage whomever it is from putting you in a situation where your health is in their hands.

Wow ok, well I'm of the opinion that you should go to jail for several years for brandishing a gun in that situation. Actually I'm of the opinion that you should go to jail for having a gun in that situation.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

Wow ok, well I'm of the opinion that you should go to jail for several years for brandishing a gun in that situation. Actually I'm of the opinion that you should go to jail for having a gun in that situation.

Personally, I have no interesting in fighting and don't have an ego or pride thing in backing down. It's not worth it. Too many assholes out there who don't think a fight ends at first blood, and I'm not keen on taking chances when I have a wife and family to support. But if the other person or persons won't let it go, well, you may be willing to put your life in some drunk asshole's hands, but I'm not. And in my state, brandishing a weapon under those circumstances is perfectly legal.

[Liffguard]

I'm with FLOW here. You can't know whether a fight is going to be "just a fist-fight" until it's finished. That certainly doesn't mean that every altercation warrants deadly force in response but there are plenty of situations where it would be reasonable to fear for your life even if murder wasn't your attacker's explicit intention. Being cornered and outnumbered by a group that means you harm is just such a situation IMO.

[Guest Raidne]

I cannot think of why there would be anything illegal about brandishing a gun in that situation either.

However, I thought you weren't supposed to do that unless you were prepared to use it, or is that some kind of Hollywood thing, or something that applies to people who belong to a statistical segment that is much more likely to have their gun used against them, such as myself?

Just an FYI, I got the feeling that in Ski's situation, the numbers were at least even, and so not outnumbered.

[kairparavel]

If I'm not mistaken, Ski's in Australia. So all this gun to a fist-fight cowboy High Noon hypothetical is awesome if you're like, American and like, live in America. But it's kinda fucking moot to the Australian guy in Australia who's already been in the altercation and is now bleeding.

Ski, as far as your phone etc, do what makes the most sense to you. As to the bleeding from your ear, I hope you're indulging in some of that universal healthcare and getting yourself checked out. In the meantime, maybe we can all start researching the gun laws of your country and figure what we'd each do if we were in your country.